Transhumanism

Red Lila wrote: However, what if we performed micrometer scans of the brain and constructed an exact simulation of a person. Their existence resumed in computer form at the moment of death. Are they still just an AI. They have memory. They remember having a body. They still have dreams and desires just as they had before. Are they no longer human?

I would say that no, they are no longer human, because what you have is a copy of the original being, not the original being itself in a different form. The original being would have died, but would be replicated through AI technology.

Its like if I created a copy of a file and then deleted the original. The copy may be exactly like the original, but it is not the original, for that has been destroyed.

You're a tease. :laugh:

It sits, barks, wags its tail, plays fetch, rolls over, does that cute thing with its ears... is it a dog?

Clones are living beings and in my opinion human beyond that it's up to the philosphers and lawyers.

Ah, but I never said anything about cloned people. Just parts. A beating cloned heart is hardly a person.

Still, it could save a life, all because of technology artificially tricking cells into growing a certain way.

Yes Just human, no more. No meatsuit no human. Wrap all the technology you want around and in it but the meatsuit is still human. Take stuff out of the meatsuit and put in a machine, leave the meatsuit behind and you may have a smart machine (a very smart maching) but it's still a machine and not human.

Now who is caught up in human arrogance? How arrogant is it to think that the current version of man is the final say in things as far as evolution is concerned. Who is to say technology being internalized isnt the next step?

As I said earlier( I dont think anyone actually reads past posts) No, we wont be human anymore, but what of it? We are no longer Cro-Magnon, and homo- sapien isnt the final say either.

Whose putting what on a pedestal?

Apparently you have.

Nature hasn't changed it's human arrogance to think so. Sorry We are not the masters of the universe and are barely the master of ourselves.

I think its human ignorance to think it hasnt changed.

Change is one of the most constant things about nature.

Now we simply have a direct hand in it in so many, many, ways.

We have preserved species that would otherwise have gone extinct. Weve introduced invasive species to other realms of the world( Pythons in my case) Geology and weather do not control topography to a very large degree anymore. In fact, it takes a natural disaster for weather to make itself a nuisance these days.

Global warming, pollution, also being addressed. Alternate fuels, etc. The amazing part is, WE CAN ADDRESS IT! We can have a say in it. I find that rather humbling and awe inspiring. Which isnt arrogance at all.

You seriously underestimate what we as a race discover and do everyday, whats being explored, discovered, and harnessed is absolutely mind blowing.

We are not mastering the universe, but understanding it? Oh yes, we are.

We are actually very close to mapping what triggers downs syndrome, and one day, can eliminate it.

I never said anything about being masters of the universe,nor that we have mastered ourselves...

But do you not think technology, and integration could not be benifical to that?

I think it not only can be, but will be, and is being such.

As of Febuary 3rd, the first bionic eye went on market.

We can make the blind see again in some cases. Mabye one day, all cases.

Cochlear implants have done the same thing for deaf people.

All because of a little integral technology, which not only makes them a cyborg(and less human, by your reasoning), but also more a master of themselves.

Improving quality of life, mastery over ourselves, not bound by cirumstance to accept our current selves and this is no longer a philosophical concept.

Or how about the new levels of prosthetic limbs?


So...

So we are in agreement, no cells no life.

Not at all, in fact, I believe there is plenty of life.

I think your conept of life very limited, but its yours and I hope you enjoy it.

Khaos wrote: Whose putting what on a pedestal?

Are you asking me?

I cant always tell who you are talking to with which part... lol...

I dont remember anyone else talking about pedestals, so Im thinking so, and maybe you didnt read it right?

I essentially agree with you, and I too embrace what the future might have in store...

I said:

Jestor wrote: You could say, that nature is exactly as it should be (my thinking), as we are from it, and everything we do is too....

If you remove us from nature, put us humans on a pedestal, then we have altered nature... Sped up the decline of animals and plants...

The first states my agreement with what you have said...

My second statment there says that if "You put man on a pedestal, above/seperate/not a part of/better than/etc, then it would appear that we have altered nature...

Or is this like Bicentennial Man, where the guy had to kill himself to prove his humanity to people?

Are you asking me?

Well, no, I wasnt.

I was more extrapolating on the point of being " masters of the universe."

Which is like putting man on a pedestal.

I simply used that as an analogy for it.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I've been enjoying the conversation so far but I have a question for those expressing the view that the body is essential. Why? If my awareness and sense of self continues, why is flesh necessary for my humanity?

Red Lila wrote: I've been enjoying the conversation so far but I have a question for those expressing the view that the body is essential. Why? If my awareness and sense of self continues, why is flesh necessary for my humanity?

Did it origionally come a person/body that no longer exists or is it transfered at death?

Are you saying basically a human life can exist in a techlnology exclusive world all made of electrons?

I am pretty much saying flesh (meat suit)is a requirement for human life.

Your knowledge can be stored in a digital device now. The sum of your memories can be locked away or part of some cyber system for all to share. Storing data is something we have gotten pretty good at.

But so far, we have not reached a point where Artificial Intelligence is more than the sum of its program. In short, I don’t think your “essence” can be accurately captured on any digital device.

Humanity is more than our thoughts, our senses or our meat sacks. It is the experience of being. Sure, if technology advances adequately we could one day find people in computers. But we aren’t there yet. Technology has integrated into our lives to the point where many don’t see how life is possible without it. But the human experience goes on all over the world without so much as running water or electric lights. They are still just as evolved as we are… just not as integrated.

Influencing cells to grow a particular way can be very beneficial for those that need medical assistance. And in the future we may be able to grow replacement parts for ourselves and store them somewhere till needed… how cool would that be? But just as advancements are made which can aid us, the other side of the coin is still present.

The next phase in the human experience may very well be full technological integration. Having an upgradable system to plug yourself into could very well be considered a kind of technological life form. But seeing how I am not displeased with the limitations of my biological form, and I find great joy in the experience I have learned to identify with life, I will not be upgrading when the time comes. Mortality does not intimidate me.

Just a few thoughts.

But seeing how I am not displeased with the limitations of my biological form, and I find great joy in the experience I have learned to identify with life, I will not be upgrading when the time comes. Mortality does not intimidate me

I never really considered immortality. An interesting idea, but even if digital, I dont think that necessarily that will correlate to living forever. Shit, one server crash and your done, haha. :laugh:

I also find great joy in the experience I have learned to identify with life, but that doesnt mean I have fixed that identity, nor am I afraid of trying something new when the future becomes present.

Having my world view turned upside down, or a radical experience change doesnt intimidate me any more than mortality.

Death of my current thinking processes in regards to humanity, identity, life, etc. Thats already happened to me a couple of times.

As for the limitations of your biological form, well, some others dont get the choice( as it happens "naturally" inside the womb), but may in the future, in fact thats very likely., as we are in varying degrees of greater or lesser "limitation."

I got a good working brain, organs, limbs, etc.

As for the other side of the coin being present, well, I hear it commonly said around here that the Force has no sides. Just peoples intention.

Same with technology.