Homosexuality is it unnatural?

Hmm...male dolphins in the wild perform homosexual acts as a way of both bonding and establishing order of dominance within the pod...they are mammals, and our closest aquatic cousins...who's to say humans don't/can't/haven't used this method?....

We are all born with no knowledge of homo/heterosexuality, it's through childhood experimentation that we find what appeals to us, and it is through our social interactions that we either embrace or reject our true nature....so yes I say it is natural, but can also be the result of nurture as well...I've studied psychology and human sexuality in college and did extremely well in both, even there it's understood that we are still making new discoveries about human nature every day....

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Vesha wrote:
"I haven't heard of any gay men having sex with women", really, well then I guess it never happens if you haven't heard of it.

I didn't say it never happens, just that I haven't heard of it happening. Your statement was that most gay men have sex with women. Since I know quite a few gay men and have never heard of gay men having sex with women unless they are closeted, my experience is that most gay men do not have sex with women. That is not to say none of them do. I was also pointing out that perhaps you are thinking of bisexual men. Gay and straight are not the only two sexualities, and bisexual men having sex with women would make perfect sense. Just something to think about.

Hmm.. Not convinced by the whole "hormonal problems aren't problems because they may result in homosexuality and homosexuality isn't a problem" argument. especially when coupled with "hormones in the water supply aren't a problem".

I didn't say hormones in the water supply aren't a problem. I only said that I'm not sure I believe that hormones in the water supply are causing homosexuality and intersex condition. And even if those were things that it was causing, those things aren't a problem. There could very well be other problems hormones in the water are causing, but I wouldn't call hormonal imbalances that may or may not cause homosexuality or intersex condition a problem.

Vesha wrote: If homosexuality is a part of natural then why is it being selected for? Doesn't something that pretty much takes you out of the gene pool go against natural selection?

You can argue the logic behind that point all day long if you like but the fact of the matter is that you are wrong. Why? Because if you look at the thousands of species on this planet you will find homosexual tendencies, thus proving that it is natural...

I didn't want to say what I am going to say next because I have been unable to find the source I read it from (and didn't want to make it sound like I'm just making this up) but...

There are two genes that control sexuality. One that controls sexual promiscuity and one that controls which gender you have a sexual preference for...

The gene controlling sexual promiscuity (or at least just the desire to have sex) is more important than the gene that controls gender preference. Thus there is a greater need to activate that gene (which is why nearly every human on the planet is sexually active (or has urges) to some extent) while the gender preference is of less importance and so there are many people with homosexual tendencies...

It has been found in twins that if one is gay then the other tendentially is more promiscuous.

The argument that homosexuality is not natural is the position only the uninformed would make because it is undoubtedly a documented fact...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yk5eHwVNdiM

And lots of gay men have wives: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beard_(companion)

I know of a mother of a member here who came out as a lesbian after many years of heterosexual marriage...

The film 'I Love you Philip Morris' (true story) has this as well...

Regarding the water supply: I can understand the 'problematic' side of the argument. Water supply aside for a moment, if anything was causing vast numbers of people to turn homosexual then clearly it would be an issue... Say if all of a sudden 80% of the human race became homosexual and breeding pretty much stopped overnight? That would be a problem don't you think?

But it isn't homosexuality that would be the problem, the problem would be a lack of new babies and it is possible to be lesbian but still have a child (as an example)... So it would not be homosexuality that was the 'problem', it would be the cause, but the problem would be a lack of children etc...

I still don't recognise the validity of the 'water supply causes homosexuality' point though...

A change in the level of human hormones isn't a problem. It is a thing that is happening, it is the cause. The problem, as I said above, would be the issues resulting from that... and the solution would be our response to that, whether it is changing the hormonal balance of humans or simply coming up with another way to deal with the issue (like instituting widespread IVF for new children etc...)

The sun going supernova isn't a problem. It is something that happens. The problem is that we would all be destroyed... our solution would be to either stop the sun going supernova or going all out 40K Eldar and living on a giant spaceship... (as a fairly random example lol)

If being intersex isn't a problem, why do people like lila try to correct it? (And argue that it is society's duty to finance the solution to that non-problem?)

The argument that homosexuality is not natural is the position only the uninformed would make because it is undoubtedly a documented fact...

It all depends on how you define "natural". Radiation is natural, yet ecologists do not think of it that way. If everything that happens in nature is natural, everything humans do is natural. Rising Co2 levels are natural, after all, it all was on the surface to begin with, and the "actor" who's putting it back on the surface (us), is natural too.

I agree with you regarding the definition of natural and unnatural. I too find it humorous that natural creatures, ourselves, can possible even consider doing something that would be unnatural lol. In the context of an argument about what is natural and unnatural the best definition of unnatural I can think of would be that it has been 'Influenced by humans' i.e. if humans were taken out of the picture then what would or would have happened?

It is the same argument as the supernatural... everything that can happen happens within nature thus the word becomes technically meaningless... but that isn't what it means, it means 'outside the normal experienced realms of nature'. Likewise 'unnatural' I argue means 'has been influenced by man'...

If one goes down the line of looking at what words are used rather than looking at the intention of what the words are trying to say then you are bound by the limitations of the English Language and will spend a long time arguing... that's why I tend to be considered a very understanding individual...

Homosexuality remains however very much a 'natural' phenomenon, if you can call it a 'phenomenon' at all...

Being born intersex isn't a problem itself. Many intersex people are just fine having an ambiguous sex. However, some are not. Some want a binary sex that matched their gender identity. But if we regard intersex condition as a problem to be fixed, then every intersex person would be seen as someone to be fixed, even if they did not see themselves that way.