Raising funds for TotJO

Please understand that my post was made from a lifetime's worth of people wanting art for nothing, and then complaining about the "starving artist" cliché. It was formed by people who claim to value art but refuse to pay for it, devaluing artists. It's because the majority of the Western world has decided that art is a public right and not a good that requires compensation. Used to, if I could make something you couldn't, and you wanted it, that was called "supply and demand" and it came with a paycheck. Now, people want something for nothing.

Example:

I am a calligrapher. Lady wants wedding invitations, and assumes I'll "gift" them to her because we're friends. I politely explain that it'll take a hefty down payment, because:

• $10 - I need new nibs for the script she wants.
• $15 - She wants good (read: archival-safe) ink in a deep, opaque black.
• $1.25/card - She wants a particular size and weight of cardstock that I have to buy in bulk, and I can only get two invites per sheet.
• $20 - Layout fee, because it'll take me two hours to do that. It requires hand-calligraphing every word separately, arranging them together perfectly, and using that as a guideline for future calligraphy so all the cards match.
• $3/card - Once the layout is done, I could probably do about three cards in an hour, and I charge $10 an hour.
• $1.27/hour - For every hour's worth of electricity and Internet service that's required to get these designs back and forth to and from her so they can be verified.
• $1/card - She wants gold embossed along the decorative elements

She wants 200 cards. I let her know that it'll be a grand total of $1096.27 (plus tax), and I'll need 30% down ($328.88). She gasps, says she had no idea it would be so expensive. Asks if I could just do one card, and then photocopy them. I say sure, that'll run her a total of $500.52 (since only the hourly and per-card costs are affected, with the exception that I'll still need 200 cards worth of cardstock) and I'll still need that 30% down ($150.16). She curses loudly and vows to go to someone else.

As an artist, my time is included in my materials costs, because I still have to eat and put a roof over my head, and that's hard enough in an economy where art is still seen as either a luxury or as mass-produced by a faceless entity. The "profit" is after I've had my share.

Please know I do know what you mean there Steamboat...

I taught martial arts... Same deal...

Student: "Why do I have to pay for a month @ $100 bucks?"

Me: "Because this is a school, we have lights, and time and rent... "

S: "How about I pay on a 'per class' basis?"

Me: " @ $10 a class, every weeknight will cost you about $200 bucks a month'

S: "Well, I will only come once a week for $20"

Me: "Im sorry, we do not offer that as an option at our school" (I want to say "Then dont even come to class, stay home and save your money... You are not going to learn anything 1 hour a week" :lol:, but it is a business too)

I dig what you were saying, and, if people are willing, I think that is fine, and if not, then that is fine too...

I have no tangible skills to sell (that I have found), only experience, so my skill sets are non-internet/mail order friendly...

So, I feel ya...

And, the reason I like to drag these conversations out like I do, is becasue it is seldom the actual people posting who have the problem, although occasionally, but, our posts are read by, and affect, a larger area of people.... So, I like for others to see the "whys and how comes"...



Calligraphy, huh?

That is pretty cool...

Jestor wrote:
Calligraphy, huh?

That is pretty cool...

To quote a t-shirt I saw the other day, "My skills are as varied as they are impractical."

steamboat28 wrote:

Jestor wrote:
Calligraphy, huh?

That is pretty cool...

To quote a t-shirt I saw the other day, "My skills are as varied as they are impractical."

Oh my goodness! I want that shirt! Haha.

Jestor, to comment on donating the time to make items, a friend actually showed me an article on how to price goods. Essentially it was material cost + time +overhead+profit=wholesale. Multiply that by two and you get retail.

So by even simply charging materials and time (not even including the time I took digitizing and perfecting the designs) I'm giving up a lot of profit. Which I'm willing to do as long as I can make TotJO members things on my schedule. BUT I'm insecure on how much to charge to begin with lol. I wouldn't expect anyone else to do as I do. I do it because I enjoy making things for people and don't feel like my work is worth much lol.

I honestly thought about putting TotJO patches up on Etsy.com to sell and donating money back to the Temple but figured that if the Temple was really needing money, we wouldn't have priced our Cafe shop so little above production costs. But that's something that I can offer. Or even possibly open and run a TotJO specific Etsy.com shop. I've had a few ideas in my head for some TotJO crafts like wooden plaques or boxes with the emblem wood burned into it. ..Actually I really like this idea. If it's something that TotJO would be interested in, Im willing to run it.

I think that would be good...

But, its not just up to me...

You as the artist, and Akkarin as the PR rep, need to discuss...

As a call-back to things I said in another thread whose url escapes me at the moment, there's also a very limited pool of people who would buy TOTJO merchandise--it's almost certainly limited to TOTJO members. Which is fine at first, because goods will get people to part with money quicker than a donate button, but at the same time, eventually you'll mine that out. And then what do we do?

I'm not asking to be negative, but sincerely. I don't know where to go from there.

Patches seem to be something a lot of people like. Plaques would be nice if people want a display for making rank or whatever. But a lot of this will be made to order so not much in the way of overhead I don't think

Or perhaps make a thread with items that can be made, that'll prevent the overhead in Etsy.com. Just post items once they were requested. Sorry I'm not thinking well at the moment. Lol

There are always options...

If you get a list, then we will figure something out...

And Steamboat, yea, I know what you mean...

I was a 'cheer parent' too... When they had fundraisers, I bought more than I sold, whatever it is... And for school stuff too...

And, i always thought, I am already paying a tuition, why not just charge me more, and forgo the fundrasing crap, lol...

When I worked for terminix, the philosophy was, "you already have a captive audience base, see what else they might need" I hated that, they were already spending money on my services, and I have to try to sell, or upcharge stuff? I did a lot for free... lol...

I wish there was a good answer....

Thats why I am waiting for a 'fundraising team', that can handle this, :lol:...

Akkarin wrote: We have the cafepress one linked at the bottom and also a Zazzle one here: http://www.zazzle.com/totjostore

I'll ask Proteus to put them both down there for the time being.

I don't intend to derail the conversation, but [strike]this store is so much cooler than[/strike] I had no idea we had the Zazzle store. Thanks for bringing that up, Akkarin.

Darren wrote:

Akkarin wrote: We have the cafepress one linked at the bottom and also a Zazzle one here: http://www.zazzle.com/totjostore

I'll ask Proteus to put them both down there for the time being.

I don't intend to derail the conversation, but [strike]this store is so much cooler than[/strike] I had no idea we had the Zazzle store. Thanks for bringing that up, Akkarin.

I've just made a new merchandise article to explain some of the merchandise stuff: http://www.templeofthejediorder.org/component/content/article/40-information/2092-temple-of-the-jedi-order-merchandise

steamboat28 wrote: As a call-back to things I said in another thread whose url escapes me at the moment, there's also a very limited pool of people who would buy TOTJO merchandise--it's almost certainly limited to TOTJO members. Which is fine at first, because goods will get people to part with money quicker than a donate button, but at the same time, eventually you'll mine that out. And then what do we do?

TotJO is very passive, we always have been. We don't go on recruitment drives, we don't send PMs to people asking for donations, we don't try and sell people merchandise.

We let ourselves be open to the public and people join us.
We have a donate button and people give us money.
We have a merchandise store and people buy things.

We don't 'push', we just sit here and things take care of themselves.

If the store never sells anything then that doesn't matter, it isn't there to make money, it is there to provide TotJO branded merchandise to people that want it. Having the store costs us nothing, if it did we probably wouldn't have it, it just sits there and people buy now and then. It is not a question of 'mining out' because we aren't mining...

Kamizu wrote: Patches seem to be something a lot of people like. Plaques would be nice if people want a display for making rank or whatever. But a lot of this will be made to order so not much in the way of overhead I don't think

We had certificates, but Mark was in charge of them and he's gone, someone else did one the other week, I forget who but that was good. The certificates were pretty much free except for postage.

Jestor wrote: Thats why I am waiting for a 'fundraising team', that can handle this, :lol:...[/color]

:whistle:

Brenna wrote:

Jestor wrote: Thats why I am waiting for a 'fundraising team', that can handle this, :lol:...[/color]

:whistle:

Life being what it is, I wouldnt even ask...

If you have the time, and if you want to, your help would be appreciated...

But, it will happen one day, so, dont worry...

Me, trying to run such an ordeal, would be like you teaching martial arts...

You have a understanding of it in that you know what the words mean, but, you wouldnt try breaking boards on your first day...

I would have a lot of research to do, and I dont have the time... Or need..... Quite yet...

Akkarin wrote:

Kamizu wrote: Patches seem to be something a lot of people like. Plaques would be nice if people want a display for making rank or whatever. But a lot of this will be made to order so not much in the way of overhead I don't think

We had certificates, but Mark was in charge of them and he's gone, someone else did one the other week, I forget who but that was good. The certificates were pretty much free except for postage.

Yeah but plaques are COOLER than certs but they do cost a bit. This is an example of what I mean. I made this for a member who was leaving the Air Force but replace the squadron emblem with TotJO's, replace the name and rank and ta-da! Fancy hand-made plaque! And they come in all sorts of shapes and sizes too if you're not into the rustic look. I've got small (like six inch) round-shaped ones I want to burn and stain the TotJO star into just because I think it'd look pretty awesome. But it's just some ideas! Sorry I've been sick the last two days and a little giddy/silly right now due to lack of being able to eat much and a 10 week old 'parasite' I'm working on LOL.

But here's the plaque I made:


I love making things for people and I'd love to help out TotJO however I can. If it would be acceptable and wanted, I could put together a thread for hand-made items from where people could see things and contact me for information. I could charge for material and time (which would be almost half of what I would charge for similar items on Etsy), then add a little more for the Temple. I by no means want to try and make money off of the Temple and I hope I don't come across as such. I want to serve and this is one capacity that I feel I can contribute too. I just have these really cool ideas for some items I'd love to make but have no where to put them all if I did! HAhahaha And I love making things for people

Jestor wrote:

Brenna wrote:

Jestor wrote: Thats why I am waiting for a 'fundraising team', that can handle this, :lol:...[/color]

:whistle:

Life being what it is, I wouldnt even ask...

If you have the time, and if you want to, your help would be appreciated...

But, it will happen one day, so, dont worry...

Me, trying to run such an ordeal, would be like you teaching martial arts...

You have a understanding of it in that you know what the words mean, but, you wouldnt try breaking boards on your first day...

I would have a lot of research to do, and I dont have the time... Or need..... Quite yet...

Im pretty sure Ive stuck my hand up a couple of times to volunteer
Let me know if and how I can help.

Brenna wrote:

Jestor wrote:

Brenna wrote:

Jestor wrote: Thats why I am waiting for a 'fundraising team', that can handle this, :lol:...[/color]

:whistle:

Life being what it is, I wouldnt even ask...

If you have the time, and if you want to, your help would be appreciated...

But, it will happen one day, so, dont worry...

Me, trying to run such an ordeal, would be like you teaching martial arts...

You have a understanding of it in that you know what the words mean, but, you wouldnt try breaking boards on your first day...

I would have a lot of research to do, and I dont have the time... Or need..... Quite yet...

Im pretty sure Ive stuck my hand up a couple of times to volunteer
Let me know if and how I can help.

PM coming later....

Kamizu wrote: I love making things for people and I'd love to help out TotJO however I can. If it would be acceptable and wanted, I could put together a thread for hand-made items from where people could see things and contact me for information. I could charge for material and time (which would be almost half of what I would charge for similar items on Etsy), then add a little more for the Temple. I by no means want to try and make money off of the Temple and I hope I don't come across as such. I want to serve and this is one capacity that I feel I can contribute too. I just have these really cool ideas for some items I'd love to make but have no where to put them all if I did! HAhahaha And I love making things for people

Go for it and see how it works.

Brenna wrote: Im pretty sure Ive stuck my hand up a couple of times to volunteer

You gotta be careful doing that. One day they might call on you in class, and then you're in trouble.

Akkarin wrote: TotJO is very passive, we always have been. We don't go on recruitment drives, we don't send PMs to people asking for donations, we don't try and sell people merchandise.

We let ourselves be open to the public and people join us.
We have a donate button and people give us money.
We have a merchandise store and people buy things.

We don't 'push', we just sit here and things take care of themselves.

On this note, all I'm going to say is that, from what I've seen, Dudeism is more active than TOTJO.

Dudeism.

Let that sink in for a minute. A religion, based on a single cult film about a white-russian-drinking bathrobe-wearing nobody, whose sole tenet is "take it easy, man", is more active than a religion based on arguably the most successful sci-fi franchise of all recorded history, wherein the greatest sage seen in the films is quoted as saying "do or do not. there is no try."

steamboat28 wrote: On this note, all I'm going to say is that, from what I've seen, Dudeism is more active than TOTJO.

Dudeism.

Let that sink in for a minute. A religion, based on a single cult film about a white-russian-drinking bathrobe-wearing nobody, whose sole tenet is "take it easy, man", is more active than a religion based on arguably the most successful sci-fi franchise of all recorded history, wherein the greatest sage seen in the films is quoted as saying "do or do not. there is no try."

I don't understand the significance of this point. The only thing I can think of is... so what? :huh:

I'm happy being me, I'm not in competition with anyone and neither is TotJO.