Raising funds for TotJO

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27 Mar 2014 13:40 - 27 Mar 2014 13:56 #142686 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Raising funds for TotJO
Please understand that my post was made from a lifetime's worth of people wanting art for nothing, and then complaining about the "starving artist" cliché. It was formed by people who claim to value art but refuse to pay for it, devaluing artists. It's because the majority of the Western world has decided that art is a public right and not a good that requires compensation. Used to, if I could make something you couldn't, and you wanted it, that was called "supply and demand" and it came with a paycheck. Now, people want something for nothing.

Example:

I am a calligrapher. Lady wants wedding invitations, and assumes I'll "gift" them to her because we're friends. I politely explain that it'll take a hefty down payment, because:
  • $10 - I need new nibs for the script she wants.
  • $15 - She wants good (read: archival-safe) ink in a deep, opaque black.
  • $1.25/card - She wants a particular size and weight of cardstock that I have to buy in bulk, and I can only get two invites per sheet.
  • $20 - Layout fee, because it'll take me two hours to do that. It requires hand-calligraphing every word separately, arranging them together perfectly, and using that as a guideline for future calligraphy so all the cards match.
  • $3/card - Once the layout is done, I could probably do about three cards in an hour, and I charge $10 an hour.
  • $1.27/hour - For every hour's worth of electricity and Internet service that's required to get these designs back and forth to and from her so they can be verified.
  • $1/card - She wants gold embossed along the decorative elements

She wants 200 cards. I let her know that it'll be a grand total of $1096.27 (plus tax), and I'll need 30% down ($328.88). She gasps, says she had no idea it would be so expensive. Asks if I could just do one card, and then photocopy them. I say sure, that'll run her a total of $500.52 (since only the hourly and per-card costs are affected, with the exception that I'll still need 200 cards worth of cardstock) and I'll still need that 30% down ($150.16). She curses loudly and vows to go to someone else.

As an artist, my time is included in my materials costs, because I still have to eat and put a roof over my head, and that's hard enough in an economy where art is still seen as either a luxury or as mass-produced by a faceless entity. The "profit" is after I've had my share.
Last edit: 27 Mar 2014 13:56 by steamboat28.
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27 Mar 2014 15:24 #142702 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Raising funds for TotJO
Please know I do know what you mean there Steamboat...:)

I taught martial arts... Same deal...

Student: "Why do I have to pay for a month @ $100 bucks?"

Me: "Because this is a school, we have lights, and time and rent... "

S: "How about I pay on a 'per class' basis?"

Me: " @ $10 a class, every weeknight will cost you about $200 bucks a month'

S: "Well, I will only come once a week for $20"

Me: "Im sorry, we do not offer that as an option at our school" (I want to say "Then dont even come to class, stay home and save your money... You are not going to learn anything 1 hour a week" :lol:, but it is a business too)

I dig what you were saying, and, if people are willing, I think that is fine, and if not, then that is fine too...

I have no tangible skills to sell (that I have found), only experience, so my skill sets are non-internet/mail order friendly...

So, I feel ya...

And, the reason I like to drag these conversations out like I do, is becasue it is seldom the actual people posting who have the problem, although occasionally, but, our posts are read by, and affect, a larger area of people.... So, I like for others to see the "whys and how comes"...

:)

Calligraphy, huh?

That is pretty cool...:)

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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27 Mar 2014 15:27 #142703 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Raising funds for TotJO

Jestor wrote:
Calligraphy, huh?

That is pretty cool...:)


To quote a t-shirt I saw the other day, "My skills are as varied as they are impractical."
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27 Mar 2014 16:30 #142707 by Kit
Replied by Kit on topic Raising funds for TotJO

steamboat28 wrote:

Jestor wrote:
Calligraphy, huh?

That is pretty cool...:)


To quote a t-shirt I saw the other day, "My skills are as varied as they are impractical."


Oh my goodness! I want that shirt! Haha.

Jestor, to comment on donating the time to make items, a friend actually showed me an article on how to price goods. Essentially it was material cost + time +overhead+profit=wholesale. Multiply that by two and you get retail.

So by even simply charging materials and time (not even including the time I took digitizing and perfecting the designs) I'm giving up a lot of profit. Which I'm willing to do as long as I can make TotJO members things on my schedule. BUT I'm insecure on how much to charge to begin with lol. I wouldn't expect anyone else to do as I do. I do it because I enjoy making things for people and don't feel like my work is worth much lol.

I honestly thought about putting TotJO patches up on Etsy.com to sell and donating money back to the Temple but figured that if the Temple was really needing money, we wouldn't have priced our Cafe shop so little above production costs. But that's something that I can offer. Or even possibly open and run a TotJO specific Etsy.com shop. I've had a few ideas in my head for some TotJO crafts like wooden plaques or boxes with the emblem wood burned into it. ..Actually I really like this idea. If it's something that TotJO would be interested in, Im willing to run it.
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27 Mar 2014 16:37 #142708 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Raising funds for TotJO
I think that would be good...

But, its not just up to me...

You as the artist, and Akkarin as the PR rep, need to discuss...;)

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter
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27 Mar 2014 16:47 #142710 by steamboat28
Replied by steamboat28 on topic Raising funds for TotJO
As a call-back to things I said in another thread whose url escapes me at the moment, there's also a very limited pool of people who would buy TOTJO merchandise--it's almost certainly limited to TOTJO members. Which is fine at first, because goods will get people to part with money quicker than a donate button, but at the same time, eventually you'll mine that out. And then what do we do?

I'm not asking to be negative, but sincerely. I don't know where to go from there.
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27 Mar 2014 16:50 #142712 by Kit
Replied by Kit on topic Raising funds for TotJO
Patches seem to be something a lot of people like. Plaques would be nice if people want a display for making rank or whatever. But a lot of this will be made to order so not much in the way of overhead I don't think
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27 Mar 2014 17:04 #142715 by Kit
Replied by Kit on topic Raising funds for TotJO
Or perhaps make a thread with items that can be made, that'll prevent the overhead in Etsy.com. Just post items once they were requested. Sorry I'm not thinking well at the moment. Lol
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27 Mar 2014 17:15 #142716 by Jestor
Replied by Jestor on topic Raising funds for TotJO
There are always options...:)

If you get a list, then we will figure something out...

And Steamboat, yea, I know what you mean...

I was a 'cheer parent' too... When they had fundraisers, I bought more than I sold, whatever it is... And for school stuff too...

And, i always thought, I am already paying a tuition, why not just charge me more, and forgo the fundrasing crap, lol...

When I worked for terminix, the philosophy was, "you already have a captive audience base, see what else they might need" I hated that, they were already spending money on my services, and I have to try to sell, or upcharge stuff? I did a lot for free... lol...

I wish there was a good answer....

Thats why I am waiting for a 'fundraising team', that can handle this, :lol:...

On walk-about...

Sith ain't Evil...
Jedi ain't Saints....


"Bake or bake not. There is no fry" - Sean Ching


Rite: PureLand
Former Memeber of the TOTJO Council
Master: Jasper_Ward
Current Apprentices: Viskhard, DanWerts, Llama Su, Trisskar
Former Apprentices: Knight Learn_To_Know, Knight Edan, Knight Brenna, Knight Madhatter

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27 Mar 2014 17:33 #142722 by Darren
Replied by Darren on topic Raising funds for TotJO

Akkarin wrote: We have the cafepress one linked at the bottom and also a Zazzle one here: www.zazzle.com/totjostore

I'll ask Proteus to put them both down there for the time being.


I don't intend to derail the conversation, but this store is so much cooler than I had no idea we had the Zazzle store. Thanks for bringing that up, Akkarin.

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