God and the Devil

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02 Mar 2016 14:12 #231176 by Rickie
Replied by Rickie on topic God and the Devil

Whyte Horse wrote: haha I love this topic because everyone can relate to it through their prior experiences with religion. god=good, devil=bad. So now I can tell you all what is good and what is bad:
Good:
1. Sex with animals - god said so
2. Killing people - god said so
Bad:
1. Sharing - Satan loves this
2. Love - Satan likes this


People said god said so. People said satin likes this. Some people believe they were inspired by god/satan. I think their are attempts to undestand and explain stuff.

Peace, kindness, compassion, tolerance, truth, knowledge, strength of mind, body and spirit are not always companions of mine but are always pursued.

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02 Mar 2016 14:14 #231177 by Rickie
Replied by Rickie on topic God and the Devil

that's not how magnets work.

?

Peace, kindness, compassion, tolerance, truth, knowledge, strength of mind, body and spirit are not always companions of mine but are always pursued.

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02 Mar 2016 15:05 - 02 Mar 2016 15:06 #231190 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic God and the Devil

that's not how magnets work.

?

!

Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 15:06 by Gisteron.

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02 Mar 2016 18:15 #231250 by Rickie
Replied by Rickie on topic God and the Devil

Gisteron wrote:

that's not how magnets work.

?

!


I still don't understand what you mean?

Peace, kindness, compassion, tolerance, truth, knowledge, strength of mind, body and spirit are not always companions of mine but are always pursued.

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02 Mar 2016 18:39 - 02 Mar 2016 19:04 #231265 by Reliah
Replied by Reliah on topic God and the Devil

Rickie wrote: God and the Devil are a magnet. United as one, polar opposites, attract diffferently and one would not exist without the other.


I am going to do something here...
Just for fun.
I was raised by a Mormon and a Catholic who allowed me to pick my own path.
So I've decided to approach this from a Mormon viewpoint just for fun and, possibly, educational purposes. These are not my own beliefs and I am not Mormon myself. I won't bash the religion in any way, either, I'm simply going to state a view from that standpoint. I hope this makes sense and can be fun...

God and the Devil aren't opposites as Lucifer is God's actual son just as Jesus is God's actual son.
Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.
I mean this in a way that they are actually brothers and God is their father, just how families are here on Earth.
In that regard, Jesus and God are not the same person, they are only one in the sense that their purpose is the same.
Lucifer, however, was cast into "Hell" after he came up with an idea to get us back to God (spiritually and physically). His idea was that instead of having free agency and the ability to choose good or bad, we would simply not have a choice and would always do good.
Edit: I forgot to add that since Lucifer came up with this idea he wanted all the glory to be given to himself and not to God - which is what made God mad enough to cast him out.

So, according to all of that, Lucifer isn't a necessity except to give us someone to tempt us and lead us astray. Not that we don't do good enough a job of that on our own, of course. He's just there for extra support in doing all the bad things and making us feel awful about it when we do. Mormon theology also teaches that this is the way it's been done before and will continue to be done forever. As in - the world God lived on when he was mortal also had a Satan-type and his god before that, etc.

Phew.
I hope no one has any questions about any of this. haha ;)

...
Last edit: 02 Mar 2016 19:04 by Reliah.
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03 Mar 2016 00:38 #231384 by JLSpinner
Replied by JLSpinner on topic God and the Devil
I'm not sure if I believe in a god or devil anymore. My belief lines up more with Buddhism. I believe in the big bounce theory, a cycle of life eternal. I believe our energies never die and return to the force for rebirth, in this universe or the next. I believe good and evil have consequences, in this life or the next. I don't think any cosmic forces or divine forces try to win our devotion. I think our consequences derive from or cohesion, or lack of, with our world. The more conflict you cause with it, the more negative feedback you receive.


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03 Mar 2016 06:35 - 03 Mar 2016 06:37 #231455 by Whyte Horse
Replied by Whyte Horse on topic God and the Devil

JLSpinner wrote: I'm not sure if I believe in a god or devil anymore. My belief lines up more with Buddhism. I believe in the big bounce theory, a cycle of life eternal. I believe our energies never die and return to the force for rebirth, in this universe or the next. I believe good and evil have consequences, in this life or the next. I don't think any cosmic forces or divine forces try to win our devotion. I think our consequences derive from or cohesion, or lack of, with our world. The more conflict you cause with it, the more negative feedback you receive.

Yup. Exactly. Buddhism has a great many wisdoms that we can all benefit from. I lived in a Theravada Buddhist society for 4 yrs. It was enlightening, to say the least. Here's a photo from the bloodless revolution that overthrew the gov't there:


Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts.
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Last edit: 03 Mar 2016 06:37 by Whyte Horse.

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03 Mar 2016 08:55 #231462 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic God and the Devil
Without trying to defend western faiths, it is still hard to argue that Buddhism is in many ways superior. It of course, like any other, makes grand assertions about the nature of things without any shred of evidence, so it is by no means better at that, yet it is also little more sophisticated in its morality and in my opinion indeed less moral overall, incredible though that may sound... I could explain why, but that would get us even more off-topic, so I shan't until prompted.

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03 Mar 2016 14:18 - 04 Mar 2016 00:23 #231510 by Streen
Replied by Streen on topic God and the Devil

Jesus and Lucifer are brothers.


Oh HELL no. Jesus was God's "only begotten son". Lucifer was an angel (one among many) who wanted to take over. If Lucifer was God's son, then so were all the other angels.[/quote]

Again, according to LDS theology, "only begotten" means that he was the only son born in flesh.
And yes, all the angles are Gods children, including you and I. We are the "spirit" brothers and sisters of Jesus, Lucifer, and each and every person who has ever or will ever live.
That is why they refer to one another as "brother" and "sister" at their church services.

"The sage does little,
but leaves nothing undone."
—Lao Tzu
Last edit: 04 Mar 2016 00:23 by Reliah.

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03 Mar 2016 14:43 - 03 Mar 2016 15:49 #231516 by Snowy Aftermath
Replied by Snowy Aftermath on topic God and the Devil

Streen wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: Prior to that, if we look at the Book of Job ... Satan is as his name implies, just God's District Attorney. Nothing more.


If that's what you think, you missed the point of the book of Job.

In the book, Job was very pious, worshiped God with his entire being. Satan wanted to prove that if he took away everything he had, that Job would stop worshiping God. God GAVE SATAN PERMISSION to ruin Job's life. Fortunately, Job proved Satan wrong and Job continued to worship God even after his family was killed and his possessions lost. So you see, God USES Satan.


Seems an awful lot like god USED Job, taking away everything that could ever mean anything to him just to prove a point to a subordinate. Which was a jerktastic thing to do to someone who loves you. Like making Abraham go through that whole thing where he was forcing him to kill Isaac to prove he loved him. Can we even say how craptacular and sadistic that was? I would NEVER do that to someone who loved me. Don't even get me started on making women marry men who raped them, stoning disobedient children... his armies being told of their opponents, to "kill all of men, women, children and animals", but the virgins were free to have as a "prize" and be "used later"...

If that god is "all there is" as you say, I'd rather not.

God and Satan are not polar opposites. God is all there is. Satan was just one of God's creations. An angel, who fell, and roams existence causing trouble. He is not omnipresent, omnipotent, or omniscient. But God is.


And yet, I still like Lucifer better. I'd have rebelled against the idea of some dumb humans being loved more than me and given all of the attention too, especially when the only thing I was ever made to do was love god, obey and humbly serve him FOREVER, and the stupid humans don't even pay attention to god (even after he'd given them EVERYTHING THEY COULD EVER NEED OR WANT) most of the time with their "free will". The angels were true to life companions to god. We are like hamsters sleeping in our own bed of pee soaked shredded paper, looking at the finger instead of what it's pointing at.

So yeah, if I were Lucifer I'd be pissed off too.

When you're writing, you're conjuring. It's a ritual, and you need to be brave and respectful and sometimes get out of the way of whatever it is that you're inviting into the room. - Tom Waits

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Last edit: 03 Mar 2016 15:49 by Snowy Aftermath.
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