Stinking of Jediism

  • Streen
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04 Oct 2013 19:09 #120521 by Streen
Stinking of Jediism was created by Streen
I've done some study into Zen (and I say "some study" because I don't think it's accurate to say I've "learned" anything) and one of the things that I read about Zen teachers is that at some point in their students' lives, they begin to "stink of Zen". In other words, they talk like the classic texts, or repeat what they've learned word for word, as opposed to coming up with their own answers through the wisdom they gain directly from, for example, the Tao.

For a time I definitely stank of Zen. I was good with the Zen quotes, or as Opie likes to call them, fortune cookie wisdom. Since then I've been trying very hard to just sit back and let it flow. In fact, I think it's about time I delete my current signature. Of course, for those of you versed in the ways of Zen, my trying isn't appropriate either ("there is no try" ;) ).

What I'm getting at is that, I believe, there are a lot of Jedi out there who stink of Jediism. I don't name names in situations like this, but it seems like there are those out there who are unfamiliar, or otherwise refuting, the concept of "unlearning". I used to experience this often at the Jedi Academy Online, which was why I came here where people are not quite so full of themselves, or don't think they know everything about being a Jedi ;)

Unfortunately, I seem to be pointing my accusations back at myself, so I'll stop typing now. Just a word of caution; don't be a stinky Jedi! :D

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  • Connor Lidell
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04 Oct 2013 19:27 #120527 by Connor Lidell
Replied by Connor Lidell on topic Stinking of Jediism
mm. Very good point, Streen. :)

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  • Mark Anjuu
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04 Oct 2013 19:50 #120530 by Mark Anjuu
Replied by Mark Anjuu on topic Stinking of Jediism
Good point, Streen, and one that we all would do well to keep remembering.

One of the points that us Clergy try to constantly remind ourselves of is the fact that we are the "servants of the people" and is their needs that we should be addressing, not our own. We are also servants of the Force. So to claim that we know everything about Jediism, the Force, etc would be futile and egotistical because everything is constantly evolving and changing. As Socrates apparently said: "The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."

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  • Donkey
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04 Oct 2013 20:38 #120539 by Donkey
Replied by Donkey on topic Stinking of Jediism
I think stinky Jedi (btw, love that term) is a natural stage in the development of a Jedi. In psychology they call it the theory of competence or the stages in learning a new skill. They are; unconscious incompetence, conscience incompetence, conscience competenence and unconscious competence. Your stinky Jedi's are probably somewhere between stage 2 and 3.
Give them your patience and some room to grow and soon your stinky Jedi will become clean

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05 Oct 2013 00:21 #120559 by ren
Replied by ren on topic Stinking of Jediism
There's all sorts.

there's the bible-bashing type (personally i like to point out how something is compatible -or not- with our doctrine, and not tell people how they are acting inappropriately according to my understanding of things)

and there's the "doesn't think or do anything like anyone else" type. (Now that's my kind of thing)

And all sorts of people in-between.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.

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  • Jayden
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05 Oct 2013 00:37 #120562 by Jayden
Replied by Jayden on topic Stinking of Jediism
I would like to share this article with you Streen. I hope you do not find too long winded. I hope you find it refreshing.

Things were Much Better Before They Allowed the
Muggles into Hogwarts

by Sencha(BMDO)

I started studying Druidry in 1978 and
committed myself to the Druid path
through initiation in 1979. Back then
there was no Ár nDraíocht Féin or
Henge of Keltria in the United States.
The only Druid organizations in the
U.S. at the time were the Reformed
Druids of North America and the
Ancient Order of Druids in America. In
the days before the Internet, the only
way to contact either of these groups
was by U.S. mail. This was a long and
tedious process, so it was usually
better and easier to learn on your
In those times, there were precious
few books on Druidry. Most were
historical works or works of semifiction
like the Barddas by Iolo
Morganwyg, who was known for
inventing things outright. The only
things we had to guide us were the
early Irish and Welsh works like the Mabinogion, The Taking of Ireland, and the Cattle
Raid of Cooley. These were also occasionally supplemented by the Scottish Carmina
Gadelica, which is thought by many to be a Christianized version of earlier Pagan songs
and incantations.
Other than these works, and the things written about the Druids secondhand by classic
authors like Julius Caesar, Pliny, Strabo and Diodorus, we only had our own personal
experiences in nature to guide us.
At that time in my life I was living in Pensacola, Florida. Although Pensacola is and was
an extremely conservative town, it was also a melting pot of people from all around the
world, due to being a port city. Several of these well-traveled and open-minded people
came together to form the Emerald Coast Grove. We met on the beach of Escambia
Bay, just outside a forest that surrounded the bluffs off of Scenic Highway. It was a magical place, there where the sea met the land. When the moon arose, it illuminated our meeting place as it reflected off the water. The woods nearby were full of night creatures whose music provided the soundtrack for our gatherings. In those days there were no streetlights to scatter light pollution into the night sky, so the view of the stars was fantastic. In short, it was a great place for experiencing all the beauty and power nature had to offer. Because we were reconstructing Druidry from personal experience and from tomes written a thousand years after the Druids existed in the world, we learned to focus intensely on what nature had to teach us. It wasn’t about sitting at the feet of some ‘Druid Master’ to learn our lessons. It was about going out into the woods and finding out for ourselves what nature had to offer. It was about using nature as a teacher and as a metaphor. It was about using the cycles of nature as guides for our lives. It was about using the Wheel of the Year as a symbol of balance so that we could find balance in our own lives. Fast forward about 35 years. Now we have the Internet, and hundreds if not thousands of books on Druidry and other types of Paganism. Self-proclaimed ‘experts’ pop up on every corner and expect a herd of followers to fall at their feet. But if you ask them to name three medicinal uses for elderberries, or to name the season in which the hawthorn blooms, they give you a blank stare. If you ask them to recite the tale of Cerridwen and Taliesin, they look as if you asked them to name all the members of British Parliament since the reign of Queen Elizabeth. J. K. Rowling had a name for this sort of person. She called them ‘muggles.’ I don’t want to sound like a crotchety old Pagan elder, but perhaps that’s what I am…or at least what I’ve become. Nowadays we have a lot of Druid ‘experts;’ i.e., muggles, who have never taken the time in nature to learn her ways. They love to sit and pontificate on what our ancient ancestors may have practiced, but they can’t name ten native species in their own local forests. They want all the glory without having to do the hard work (ancient Druids did twenty years of hard work before they could even begin to call themselves ‘Druids’ and feel worthy of the title). A part of me longs for the old days when we actually went out into the woods and tried to learn from nature. I know that not all modern Druids are ‘book wise’ while ignorant of nature. There are many who actually try to do the work and learn. I salute them. I just wish that as Druidry has risen in popularity in recent years we could have been spared the inevitable birth pangs and the charlatans that come along with them. I miss the days when the muggles weren’t allowed at Hogwart's.




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  • Streen
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15 Oct 2013 12:26 #121573 by Streen
Replied by Streen on topic Stinking of Jediism
Hehe, not too long winded ;) Interesting, but I'm not entirely sure how it relates to the topic of this thread. Druidry sounds a bit like Taoism though.

I thought of something, a comparison of sorts between stinking of Zen and what I referred to as a "stinky Jedi". You might say a stinky Jedi is one who constantly quotes Star Wars (or the Matrix in some cases), instead of expressing original thoughts.

I should make a point to say, however, that there is nothing "wrong" with this phase. As Donkey said, it's a natural stage in development as a Jedi. You could compare it to the lower belt levels of certain martial arts, as they are not "bad", they are simply not experienced.

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  • Mareeka
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15 Oct 2013 17:11 #121595 by Mareeka
Replied by Mareeka on topic Stinking of Jediism
Thanks for this thread. It inspires within me the joining of “service to” and “true tolerance” not just putting up with others.

It seems we are talking about platitudes (specifically Jedi) but I am feeling the range of spouting platitudes (the newbie to the knowers) which . . . “is what it is” in all groups joined in the purpose of a path (spiritual and non-spiritual).

One time, I was going to leave a group because I already knew what everyone was going to say. My, then, mentor said, “well perhaps now is the time to stay and look within and see what your are really intolerant of.” hmmmm

Through Sunday’s sermon and through this thread . . . I am truly grateful to feel the Temple’s focus on service to others and true tolerance.

I feel a little prayer . . may I stay willing each day to weed my garden and willing to appreciate my brother’s garden even if is full of weeds.

Thank you all.

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  • Coyote
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15 Oct 2013 21:53 #121618 by Coyote
Replied by Coyote on topic Stinking of Jediism
We can probably never have too many reminders like this. Thank you.

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20 Oct 2013 16:36 #122061 by Alexandre Orion
Replied by Alexandre Orion on topic Stinking of Jediism

Be a philosopher ; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man.
~ David Hume

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
~ Henri Bergson
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