What do you get out of magic/k?

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9 years 8 months ago #157081 by Edan
I have a question that came from Arcade's thread, but I didn't want to hijack.

For me, magic/k was always kind of intertwined with my previous theistic beliefs. When I stopped believing in gods/other beings etc, I stopped 'believing' in magic. I think I got to a point where I wanted things to be the outcome of my work, but in truth it just eventually felt all in my mind. I wanted to see effects, so I saw them, I wanted to feel something, so I felt it.
There were some strange things that happened that I still can't explain, but since I can't, I don't really think about them too much.

For those of you here who are still doing some form of magic, I guess my question is, why? What do you all feel that you get out of it?

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9 years 8 months ago #157083 by RyuJin
"Of course it's all in your head, why should that mean that it isn't real?"-albus dumbledore-

Most of what I do isn't for myself but for others...for anything to work everyone involved has to believe it to work...especially protective charms/rituals etc..

Warning: Spoiler!

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9 years 8 months ago #157096 by
Replied by on topic What do you get out of magic/k?
Some people understand magic in other ways,is complex.

Religions have lots of concepts and behaviour close to magic,by example the tab├╣:

Thats, what is not acceptable by some reason...in many cases the need of human create new religions or reformat others to create new rules...many times, prohibitions have as base the idea of protect or prevent a negative magic.

( If we contemplates the idea of magic, as a thing that produce a change)

We can to see magic in lots of places...publicity,religion,social behaviour...
human specie want trascend,grow...across the sea...
make a way opened with the wand.

Some magic as Maat and others that are in balance with nature,can to be observed as therapy.

and some therapies, as magical

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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #157143 by
Replied by on topic What do you get out of magic/k?

Edan wrote: For those of you here who are still doing some form of magic, I guess my question is, why? What do you all feel that you get out of it?


I ended up writing more than I thought I might on this topic, so to avoid cluttering up the thread I've included it under a spoiler. :)

Warning: Spoiler!
Last edit: 9 years 8 months ago by .

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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #157146 by Adder
Contrasted to normal feelings, thoughts and action!! For me it signal's important intention - to whatever it might be that I'm working with... be it my subconscious, or some unknown supernatural aspect of a wider reality. But so can religion, so...

... it fits into a worldview I have that includes religion and science. Science being how the natural order can be objectively measured and used for the human purpose, with religion being about a supernatural/subconscious order as a set of belief and practices of something metaphysical, and finally magic being the confluence of the other two that see's the supernatural/subconscious influence unto the natural/physical world. In that regard science is the easiest field to work with, while religion and magick seem more important, elusive and with the potential of being more rewarding, but also risky.

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Last edit: 9 years 8 months ago by Adder.
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9 years 8 months ago - 9 years 8 months ago #157149 by Alexandre Orion
I think it was Isaac Bonewits who schematised the relationships of science, art, religion and magic. These can be illustrated (sens large, bien entendu !) as :
  • science - practical means to practical ends
  • art - practical means to impractical ends
  • religion - impractical means to impractical ends
  • magick - impractical means to practical ends

Now, what that means to me is that for everything that we do, there is some action on the "meta-" level that exceeds the immediate scope of whatever it is we are wanting to be doing. This is true from everything from the most elaborate magickal rite to simply doing the laundry. Thus intention is important (albeit it is strange to imagine someone doing laundry maliciously :P ). We already admit pretty readily that nothing is really separate from anything else. There is a sort of unity which reigns, that was there before everything and that everything arises from and returns to, an everything that is ubiquitous, mysterious and that we can't get our heads around very well. We can however be aware of it. And it is this awareness that can be a formidable strength to all of these various aspects of mind.

Moreover, one doesn't necessarily need choose ; they are all going on at once, even if we think that we have rationally rejected one or another. People like to regard themselves as rational, reasonable folk and thus would boast of subscribing to the science mind more than any of the others - for practitioners of magick, that is the identification, for an artist, art and for a traditional cleric, religion. Then they get all sorts of steamed when one implies that their methods are impractical ... go figure ! :S

Anyway, let's get back to what we were saying about the "meta-" aspects of everything. Awareness of what influences our intent and action ensuing thereof may have beyond the practice by whatever means it entails is to bring an equal awareness to that unity - that vast and magnificent and terrifying everything - that we already eagerly accept. Therefore, in keeping with the notion that for any and every task there is a cascade of causal possibilities, it is that awareness of the variables outside of what we can immediately take into account (and there are many !) that makes marvellous things out of will.

To de-mystify Bonewits' schematic, I see 'practical means' as the variables we can take into account and the immediate manipulation (again, in its positive sense) of the environment, and 'practical ends' as that about which we can be reasonably certain will result if our assessment of the practical means was accurate. 'Impractical means' would therefore be those which do not have a direct causal link to the result, but are those actions which access or bring about the circumstances whereby the desired result can most favourably arise. 'Impractical ends' I understand as representations of things, events or conditions, insubstantial, yet may occasion both practical and impractical means thereafter.

But then, I'm just a priest, and not much of a magician, so what the hell would I know ? I don't even really like to do the laundry either ... :unsure:

... so, really, all I expect to get magically : clean laundry. :cheer:

Be a philosopher ; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man.
~ David Hume

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
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Last edit: 9 years 8 months ago by Alexandre Orion.
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9 years 8 months ago #157151 by
It's a lot about perspective, as well. Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy aren't real to me and you, but to my 4 year old son they are very real. But even knowing that they are aren't real, I still get a lot out of them, even though it's through my son.

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9 years 8 months ago #157171 by Zenchi
First of all, how do you define magic/k? That question will largely influence as well as determine what an practitioner gets out of it. For me, it has become intrinsic to being alive. I have found after nearly thirty years of study, practice and exploration that the most powerful magic is rooted in self transformation, and should be associated with psychology...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
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9 years 8 months ago #157233 by Edan

Zenchi wrote: should be associated with psychology...


This is how it seems to me now.

When I did perform magic, my work slowly moved from 'external' to 'internal'... when my mentor had a massive altar in his living room he performed rituals at, I just had a little box I kept my things in... eventually I didn't have anything. I withdrew inwards until I absorbed everything and stopped completely.

Perhaps I just never found the right method for me. My mentor dealt what he called 'dark qabbalah' but it never interested me, so most of what I knew I taught myself.

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9 years 8 months ago #157239 by Zenchi
Sounds like the Qlippoth, and its VERY DARK. It requires hours a week of yoga like discipline to prevent it from literally taking over the psyche and causing psychosis.Those kind of "stains" don't wash away...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
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