Psychoactive Substances

I really don't know if this belongs here, but since i could not find any other area that seemed to allow this discussion, I thought i would bring it up here. Please forgive me if this issue is "taboo" on this site, and remove it if you see fit Admins.

So my question is twofold:

1. How do you feel that thousands of citizens are being incarcerated for choosing to use a substance that is "illegal". By this I mean "offenders" who's only crime was doing that drug or substance ( I am not saying idiots who rob, commit crimes shouldn't be punished. They should. I am talking but people who are arrested simply for choosing to use that substance). Does it make you feel more safe knowing that cops are chasing down potheads doing nothing but sit in their house and smoke dope rather then using the time to find the REAL criminals who harm others and violate their rights?

2. In light that many civilizations and religions have and continue to use psychoactive substances as a sacrament or part of their religion, isn't the government's persecution of people using psychoactive substances a form of religious persecution? For instance, I believe that marijuana is a sacrament, used for connecting with spiritual forces and gaining greater insight. What right does the government have to persecute me for my religious beliefs? Who have I harmed by smoking marijuana? Is not my body my own...or is it in truth owned by the government? If it is owned by the government, doesn't that imply I'm a slave that only has rights as long as the corrupt political elites say I do? If I am a slave with no right to decide what I take into my body, then can we at leat be honest and admit that indeed I am NOT free, my rights come from corrupt politicians and I am only free to do what th ecorrupt, bribed politicians say I cna do?

Which religion do you follow then? The one that requires you to smoke marijuana despite the legal situation? I only know of a couple so I would be interested to find out which one you belong to. I fully support the use of substances that have been indigenously honoured for thousands of years and are only used in a sacred context, but not when they are abused in order to just get high. That's disrespectful to the spirit of the plant in question, whatever that may be.

The debate about marijuana has already been discussed on the forum so you may find it useful to add to those topics. Use the search bar (top of the page) to find them.

I follow a religion called Tardism ( I know the name sounds bad, but it is meant to be "in the face" of those who Tardism is meant to appeal to: the poor, people with disabilities, racial minorities,e.t.c. We also use it to show solidarity with people with developmental disabilities who are probably the most mistreated and oppressed group in America). We use it to gain communion with The God, and we consider it a sacrament as holy and sacred as wine in the Catholic religion.

That's interesting. Do you have any links to resources where we can learn more about this? Also, do you commune and work with the spirit of the plant as indigenous animist practitioners do? Or is it used as merely a tool to achieve a state of consciousness that better facilitates a connection with your "God". Actually, what does "The God" represent to you? See, I have many questions! Maybe linking to resources might be a useful way of answering me!

I agree with you, I would say I have taken every drug that isn't going too far (ie. opiates, heroin etc.) none of them have done me harm, and nor has it done harm to the numerous people who I have taken them with. Furthermore, the war on drugs that has been going on for so many years has clearly failed, however, the people most responsible for this are the people who take the least responsibility. The middle / upper classes of society are the one's who fund the drug trade and fund the criminal activity that comes with it. I would say, then, that when buying weed, you should grow it yourself or buy it from someone who is not going to fund criminal activity.

However, having done many drugs, and having been a HEAVY pot-smoker for two years I can say that none of them brought me any sort of true happiness. Weed in particular is a massive depressant, not only that but it seriously affects your memory / capacity to learn. I know many people who smoke pot regularly, none of them do it for spiritual purposes, and in my opinion it has done serious damage o their personalities - for the most part they've become boring morons. There is a real common myth (in my opinion) among people who smoke a lot of dope, that it doesn't effect them and they can smoke as much as they like, or they even say it boosts their capacity to learn etc (the complete opposite of what I just said!). That, in my opinion, is total rubbish. Of all the people I know who smoke pot, I've only met one guy who could function on it, and his work seemed to genuinely improve as a result, NOTE. That is one out of about 10 - 20 people!

I agree with you, and would say that dope should be legalised. However, as with drinking, people should experiment and realise the effect that it has on them, and regulate their intake of it in respect to the effect it has. You say that you smoke it for religious purposes, however, if that means just getting high everyday I really struggle to see what the benefit of that is. I still smoke dope but only on very rare occasions and when I have no other commitments. For the most part I am tee-total and in being tee-total I feel that when I meet someone or connect with someone, they are dealing with the real me and what's more I feel that my capacity to do things is increased to no end, rather than just sitting about giggling.

Mark Anjuu wrote: That's interesting. Do you have any links to resources where we can learn more about this? Also, do you commune and work with the spirit of the plant as indigenous animist practitioners do? Or is it used as merely a tool to achieve a state of consciousness that better facilitates a connection with your "God". Actually, what does "The God" represent to you? See, I have many questions! Maybe linking to resources might be a useful way of answering me!

The God, to us, is symbolized by the sun. That is very important to us, since the Sun as a symbol of The God conveys what we believe about The God; just as the sun gives life to the earth, so does The God who is defined as "The Life Energy" of the universe. In other words, we believe that all living life, everything from plants to animals to humans, exists and live because The God, like the Sun, continously transmit Life-Energy to us.

You might call that Spirit or what not. However, we do not believe in life after death. We hold that as the "charge" of Life-Energy runs down we "die". Rather, we believe in "genetic reincarnation"; we believe that it is necessary to have children, and that if you do, your genetic code will recombine in such a way that your genes will lead to you being "reincarnated" in your offspring (again, understanding that since most people have ancestors they will never know, these personalities will not be an exact copy but will be a recombining of the personality traits of your ancestors). We see this in physical features passed down genetically, so we believe that personality is genetic as well.

Marijuanna is used both for communing with The God as well as a form of divination we use to ascertain The Gods will. The form of divination is called "Chillination". Basically, the Priest calls on The God to bless the Pot, and lights the ritual bong. The pipe is passed down until all have achieved what we term "Illumination". at that point, prayers are addressed to The God, asking for The God to reveal It's will to us through the television. A random channel is chosen, and whatever is first heard and or seen is believed to be a message to The God. When it is heard/seen, usually we will ponder how the message applied to a concern of ours or to a question we want answered.

Priests are bound by several laws: 1. Priests can not engage in priestcraft; that is, the Ministry is not a means to acquire money for himself. At services, the Priest is supplied by donations by the congregation (allthough NEVER money!!). We call this the "Ecclesiastical Offering" and consists of used clothes, donated food, e.t.c. Furthermore, a Priest can not vote, and in addition a Priest because he has no money of his own is supplied with a room inside the Temple. This room, however can only contain items that are allowed and usually donated. Furthermore, Priests are required to make sunrise, midday, and afternoon prayers and make sure the Temple does not become impure.

I am strongly opposed to psychoactive substances and substance abuse.

THIS IS MY BELIEF AND STANCE, so do not take it as an attack against your beliefs:

I believe that those who believe they are connecting with God via drugs are mislead by their want to feel like they are getting a spiritual high from the substance. I believe that the only thing you connect with is YOUR subconscious (in some Jedi circles, this would be called your "Personal Force"). I believe that substances taken to give you a spiritual experience inhibit your ability to connect with the "Living" and "Universal Force".

My POLITICAL Stance is this:

Using something which is classed as an illegal substance or using a legal substance illegally should be enforced by fines (UNLESS harm to others is somehow caused-to include being pinned with child neglect if you are caught using drugs while your children are at home, as well as drug dealers). Why? Because we don't have enough room or money in our jails to harbor people using substances. It also helps put more money into the government for worthwhile projects.

I respectfully disagree. Who are you or the government to tell me what to put in my body? By what right? Where in the Counstitution does it say that isn't a right?

If you consider the understanding that we are all a part of the Force, then communing with our own subconscious is exactly the same as "connecting with God" or whatever alternative term you choose to employ. So in a way, I agree with Alethea except for the fact that she seems to be treating such a connection as being less "spiritual" or effective due its personal, non-deity-related nature. I am God and God is me and so are all of you. So asking myself is like asking God. This is my belief and this is also explored in some of the content of the Initiate's Programme, especially Alan Watts' work.

Then again, I believe that the distinction between the "Living Force", "Universal Force", etc is just one of semantics. It's all just different manifestations of the same thing, which is the totality of existence. So a plant spirit is no different from a human spirit. As a practising shaman, I support working with plant spirits providing that it is in a sacred context, honouring the spirit and working with it in order to achieve healing and enlightenment of whatever kind is appropriate. The problems come when the plants are used to just "get high" and are not respected as they should be.

the UK doesn't have a constitution, but I would agree with you that you should be allowed to do what you want. That said, just because you have the right to do something, doesn't mean that you should do it. I believe something like heroin should be decriminalised, not because I think everyone should be shooting up, but because the fact that it is illegal does not stop people doing it. They have an excellent system in Portugal (where all drugs have been decriminalised) where by they go to areas where there are lots of addicts, provide clean needles and take away the dirty ones. The people who are addicts are NOT taken to prison either, they are taken to rehabilitation, which makes a lot more sense to me, firstly because in my view an addict is not a criminal nor is possessing drugs a criminal act and secondly because economically it makes much more sense, it must be more cost effective to send someone to group therapy than keep them locked up for a year.

I would, however, also agree with Alethea. I seriously don't see how drugs bring you closer to God or make you any sort of great spiritual being. There is nothing external in smoking dope, it effects your mind and alters your perception of the world in the same way having a couple of pints does. One reason I can see why weed might be illegal is because people don't respect it. I don't when / where you smoke, but if you're smoking at say 10 in the morning, would you really have two or three pints at that time? Probably not. What's more, for the most part, potheads are incredibly uncreative and unimaginative, the only reason you might think that you are more so is because of the effect it has had on you, for example, I laugh at incredibly stupid things when I'm high and afterwards I'll think, wow, that really wasn't very funny at all. I'm sorry then, but I really cannot see how smoking weed is going to enhance a religious experience, if anything it would dupe you into having one. At the same time, the way you're speaking about it, it seems as though you just want to smoke a load of weed, to which I have to say, dude, get over it, it's really not that great, it's just weed.