Temple Crisis Hotline

Some people. Plenty of people thought it was a good idea in principle, although the execution left [strike]a little[/strike] a lot to be desired.

The hotline was originally set up and co-ordinated by a Bishop (also GrandMaster and Councillor) of TOTJO, as a service offered by Clergy. It was later begrudgingly 'run' by myself for a while as the then Vice President of Clergy (an office we no longer have here but essentially the organisational head of Clergy), and I after I absented myself from TOTJO the first time, I believe this is when it stopped functioning.

The concerns were over whether it was a service that should be offered by trained mental health practitioners (therapists etc) only.

So, in that regard, absolutely nothing has changed whatsoever since 2012 as, to the best of my knowledge, we still don't particularly have any of those in our Clergy.

However, I still personally think it's a good idea (as a new official TOTJO email address). I'm sure there is some debate to be had over the logistics and how it could be done better this time around and I'm confident that our Council and Clergy will give concerns due consideration before deciding on the specifics.

Nobody disputed the idea except for maybe Khaos... lol.

But, yes, there are no end to the logistical problems this idea presents. I think there are better ways to spend our resources and time. Continuing to provide excellent training and clerical services are a couple of ways.

I think it's a bit much to think this place can handle a crises hot line. Look at how some discussion go. No insult or offence intended. People lives could be at stake. Ignorance is not bliss. On the other hand I also think clergy would feel the desire to help those in need.

Helping people is good. People need to know their limits.

This probably doesn't help much but if in doubt error on the cautious. Ask yourself if you had a good friend of family member in crises where would you send them. Here?

Do the folks here have the time, talent and resources to do good correctly? I don't think I could without training. But that's me.

I've had first aid training several times over the years and the best I've done is keep people stable until help arrives.

It's not a question of desires but can we do good?

Rickie The Grey wrote: It's not a question of desires but can we do good?

Yes, we can.

Every person here has gone through something deeply emotion and traumatizing. Some people haven't gotten over their issues and many others had more and more issues compiled on top of it. The point being is that the people who have walked through the "mine field" have the experience to help others walk through the field without getting hurt. You can call it coaching or teaching by experience, either way it is someone who knows the pain of the situation. This does not mean we know exactly how the person feels, but we know the pain that it can cause and that we can empathize with them.

I believe we can help people that are willing to use the "hotline". If they are willing to use the hotline it means they are seeking help and that is a big step for some people. Even the people "trained" for the suicide hotlines are not perfect and cannot fix every situation, but if we can give these people another way to look at things and help them through their issues, then we will make a difference.

In my personal experience I would rather talk to someone who understands the situation on a personal level because they've been through it than speak with someone who was "trained" by a person who probably doesn't have fruit on the tree of life experiences and makes a little bit above minimum wage. Someone who knows the pain will care deeper than someone being paid to help.

These things can sometimes benefit from procedures, such as redirection to better trained services under specific situations, but there might be a useful value in this. But 'crisis' is a strong word - and to me it does imply the higher end of the risk spectrum. Helpline sounds a bit too soft, like an IT callcenter, but crisis hotline sounds too strong.... cannot think of any good suggestion at the moment though
:pinch:

Counsel Hotline, Coaching Hotline, Re-Direction Hotline has a nice ring to it.

There are many different names we can come up with for it.

I'd like to point out that the Clergy DOES take spiritual confession and does give spiritual guidance to anybody who needs it.

Thank you Connor, that is a very good thing to point out.

Though to play devils advocate, some people may feel uncomfortable talking to a religious/spiritual member from a different church/religion. Though most of the people who would probably be offering their services for the "hotline" would mostly be one of our Clergy, there might be some not of the Clergy who would like to help as well.

Just something to think about. Again, thank you for point it out for it is something that I have used and can attest to. It was very helpful and I received great guidance that made me feel a lot better and I was not left feeling like my issues were unanswered. I give big kudos to our Clergy members and those who take confessions.

Discussions go crazy because the conversations of that nature have strong opinions...

We all band together to offer advice when someone needs it....

It doesn't hurt to.listen... Or offer advice....

I would prefer anyone seeks professional help...

If they can't, or won't, seek professional help, at least we can listen.....

And, we are looking into the legalities...

V-Tog wrote: The concerns were over whether it was a service that should be offered by trained mental health practitioners (therapists etc) only.

So, in that regard, absolutely nothing has changed whatsoever since 2012 as, to the best of my knowledge, we still don't particularly have any of those in our Clergy.

Might it be appropriate at this point to mention that many localities (most states in the US, for example), make certification exemptions for religious counseling for spiritual guidance.

I don't say this to suggest that anyone here is qualified (at all). In fact, I think it's a very helpful, honest, and important step to admit that we are almost certainly completely unqualified. Without admitting that, we presume that we can handle what's thrown at us. Rather, I say this to suggest that there are many problems that we, collectively, are qualified to help with--at least in the initial, emergent stages. Solace from trusted friends and fellow pathwalkers can be just what is needed to help until more professional aid can be summoned.

Or offer advice....

I mean responsible advice...

My favorite maxim is "knowing when not to act"...

Or in this case, "don't over reach"....

steamboat28 wrote: I don't say this to suggest that anyone here is qualified (at all). In fact, I think it's a very helpful, honest, and important step to admit that we are almost certainly completely unqualified. Without admitting that, we presume that we can handle what's thrown at us. Rather, I say this to suggest that there are many problems that we, collectively, are qualified to help with--at least in the initial, emergent stages. Solace from trusted friends and fellow pathwalkers can be just what is needed to help until more professional aid can be summoned.

Very well put, Steamboat. I agree. I think we can listen and help out with things that do not require legal counsel or serious professional aid. And this is basically what I was trying to say. We can fix or help with everything, but we can help with quite a bit.

Jestor wrote:

Or offer advice....

I mean responsible advice...

My favorite maxim is "knowing when not to act"...

Or in this case, "don't over reach"....

This is where I believe people need to know their limits. If you've never experienced an issue or had experience with something that someone is asking you about, how can you offer advice? That is like asking someone how to cook a Turkey when they've only ever cooked raman noodles. They would have no clue. You should only seek advice from someone that has experience with what you are wanting to know.

Rickie The Grey wrote: I think it's a bit much to think this place can handle a crises hot line. Look at how some discussion go. No insult or offence intended. People lives could be at stake. Ignorance is not bliss. On the other hand I also think clergy would feel the desire to help those in need.

Helping people is good. People need to know their limits.

This probably doesn't help much but if in doubt error on the cautious. Ask yourself if you had a good friend of family member in crises where would you send them. Here?

Honestly, I think it is dangerous and irresponsible to have a crisis hotline. People coming to us in a crisis would need immediate attention and who among us has the time to drop everything for every crisis that comes in? I'm not saying it's impossible, but there's so much we haven't accounted for.

What I would like to say is that I think having a place where anyone, at any time can send a message anonymously and give voice to secret shames, private fears, and problems they can't talk to usual suspects about is a great idea. We would probably have to have a disclaimer that says, "By submitting a message, you acknowledge that you understand this is not a medical, psychological/psychiatric, or other professional therapy service. The readers of submissions are clergy who work on a volunteer basis."

We can offer spiritual counseling and peer group therapy. For situations where someone is in an immediate crisis they need to contact a properly staffed and trained hotline. Members interested in helping with urgent can't wait situations should train and volunteer at these organizations. A link to an emergency directory on the front page is a good idea.

Of course....

Although we are calling it a "hotline", we are talking about using email, how "hot" can it be?

Perhaps a name change is in order.... lol...

Yes, Jestor -- a name change is definitely in order. To me, "hotline" doesn't mean a medical (mental health or otherwise) or technical problem. To me, I see two red phones - one in Moscow and the other in Washington D.C. - and a whole lot of nuclear weapons pointed at each ...

I remember the hotline when it came about and didn't really think much of it at all ... but then I don't lump everything people can feel into some "being sick" category either. A few months ago, this came up again over the Confession, Clerical Counselling ; all of the arguments are the same : who's qualified ? We have only to present found "help" to be a neutral enough term that we don't get accused of promoting suicide through 'un-qualified bogus psychic surgeries' or hocus-pocus.

People aren't comfortable talking to Clergy. Are they really that comfortable talking to a psychologist/psychiatrist/life coach ? It seems to me that if someone has something on their mind that they need to talk about "right now", it is because that person is already uncomfortable. It isn't a matter of who they talk to, they just need someone's attention. They don't need someone to give them the solution to their problems, they need someone to say "I understand" (whether one does or not).

Has anyone ever had a grand-mother ? Or a best friend ? These people we feel pretty comfortable talking to ; we can tell them about anything. And we (might) listen when they respond to whatever they respond. Often grand-mothers respond with warm biscuits and a warmer smile and best friends respond in best friend ways, but the point here is that neither my grand-mother nor my best friend are "qualified" to listen to my problems. They are just people that I can bitch at when I need to do. Nor is their feedback going to fix the problems. They are just "there", they are sounding boards, they are avenues of expression where I'm not afraid of being judged or under the pressure of having to make sense.

Our "talks" are quite a bit like that. In the TotJO Clergy, we study how to listen to people in an understanding way, of perhaps not responding at all except by "I understand".

So, no -- we are not going to all go get trained as clinical psychologists and we are not going to go offering magical solutions to all of the woes of the human condition. But we can listen to people who are emotional and do not make sense without requiring them to and without judging (or telling them that they make no sense).

I am not going to publicise my credentials to listen to someone any more for someone coming to me to get things off their chest in the Temple any more than I already do for people I know (this happens frequently) or strangers at busstops and in cafés. My biggest "credential" is just that I'm there and have ears.

Alexandre Orion wrote:
People aren't comfortable talking to Clergy. Are they really that comfortable talking to a psychologist/psychiatrist/life coach ?

Just to be pedantic, that would better read as "psychologist/psychiatrist/counseling therapist. While most life coaches are trained in one or more of the other fields, life coaching is NOT crisis or trauma resolution.

But since you ask, people certainly seem comfortable.

I don't like this idea as I understand it, while people here can help others just by listening a lot of the time in my experience because they are helping based on their own experiences they are starting of with preconceived ideas of what the other person feels or needs to hear. They already have an idea of what works.
People don't actively listen and it causes more problems. Your not counsellors or trained and in a hotline situation more damage than good could be done.
Good intentions are all very well but I think having maybe a list of useful helpline numbers such as in the UK the Samaritans , rape crisis, and others maybe displayed somewhere on site would be better.
A counsellor is trained to see what is happening not from there own experiences (though they are helpful) but from a nuetural standpoint. And trained to offer advice, even in passing the person on to other professionals. They have a team to back them up and resources at their disposal. None of which we have here.

On the issue of people being uncomfortable talking to the clergy, I'm sorry but I think you do that to yourselves. There is training on how to be available and how to talk to people in a manner that helps create a safe comfortable environment. Which again we don't have.
Help as a friend is always a good thing, but as is not butting in when people don't ask for your help.
It's a fine line and sometimes how you initially ask if someone needs help could be improved.

Well, perhaps ...

We're not saying don't ring up or talk to anyone else. If we are really all that wretched, then just don't come talk to us. Talk to whoever you want to. Or don't ...

But please stop telling me that I'm not qualified to listen to other people. That is what I've been doing for much of my life already. And it really doesn't matter what you think of my qualifications ; I already have a good reputation for listening well and responding with at least enough to know that I've actually listened to what thy were saying (as opposed, say, to thinking about my shopping list during it all ...)

It all boils down to who wants to talk to whom about what. If you (no one in particular here -- you generally) do not feel us qualified to listen to you, then don't come to us with things. But please don't tell us that we can't listen to others. That would be pretty pretentious ...

The solution to that is pretty simple ...