What it Means When There are No Boy Scouts

Senan wrote: It is less about being a "boy" and more about being interested in topics and activities that are traditionally "boy" oriented. That doesn't mean a girl couldn't or wouldn't share those interests and benefit from it. It is just that girls have traditionally been less likely to share these interests.

Which brings up the question:
Are girls traditionally less likely to share those interests, or traditionally told that they shouldn't share those interests?
When I was young(er), I got chastised a lot and frankly made fun of by one of my parents who had very narrow views, just for sharing those interests and wanting to learn about those things. I really believe that future generations will benefit from the current generation tossing those antiquated ideas out in favor of more tolerant views.

Kehta Nier wrote:

Senan wrote: It is less about being a "boy" and more about being interested in topics and activities that are traditionally "boy" oriented. That doesn't mean a girl couldn't or wouldn't share those interests and benefit from it. It is just that girls have traditionally been less likely to share these interests.

Which brings up the question:
Are girls traditionally less likely to share those interests, or traditionally told that they shouldn't share those interests?
When I was young(er), I got chastised a lot and frankly made fun of by one of my parents who had very narrow views, just for sharing those interests and wanting to learn about those things. I really believe that future generations will benefit from the current generation tossing those antiquated ideas out in favor of more tolerant views.

I believe that girls have been traditionally discouraged from sharing a lot of interests with boys by a male dominated society. There is definitely a case for women being discouraged from participating in certain activities even if they are interested and have a talent for them. The Boy Scouts have perpetuated a lot of this behavior by excluding girls and also not supporting the efforts of the Girl Scouts to make the programs more equivalent. There is no reason the Boy Scouts shouldn't have been sharing their facilities and resources with the Girl Scouts this whole time, even though they are separate. I really do hope the next generation of Scouts does toss out the antiquated stereotypes that still pop up.

That said, I will hedge a bit and say that there still are certain biological aspects of being a boy that support these stereotypes. Testosterone can make us gravitate toward certain caveman behavior that girls would never find acceptable

And a quick clarification... while the Boy Scouts are renaming their core training program "Scouts BSA" and allowing girls to join and participate in this program, troops will still be separated by sex. Girls will not be joining troops of boys to go on camping trips. The troops will remain separate in all aspects except that they will both teach the same lessons and share the same rank structure. Girls will be allowed a path to Eagle Scout, but won't have to be in a group with boys to do it.

Eventually they will break down even those antiquated beliefs and allow mixed sex packs and troops.

That is a hope I have as well. Jessi Poundstone was a friend of mine who went to Ranger School with me and since she spells her name differently she was accepted - letter- orders- everything .... till her boots hit the dirt . She was quickly escorted and sent home. Then... came Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye . Times Change - some times not to our liking or even when we like it .

I thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. As a girl scout who left after "cadet" I seem to remember something similar to the Eagle scout in our organization. What I do think the Eagle Scout name has is prestige, as exemplified by the fact that I can't remember ours. I looked. Its called the "Gold" award and has an analogous project called "Take Action".
I'm of mixed feelings here as there are many co-ed scout opportunties already in existence, but GSA and BSA are by far the most recognized. In any case, this seems to be where we are going. I'll simply be glad if the mission of both organizations is maintained.
The issue brought forward in the OP is the shrinking of masculine space and mentoring opportunities. Have we thought about how the Jedi can feature in this place of need? Not only in male-male mentorship, but just in mentorship period. After all, one of our statement of belief says:

Jedi Believe

In the Force, and in the inherent worth of all life within it.
In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment, including the death penalty.
In a society governed by laws grounded in reason and compassion, not in fear or prejudice.
In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin.
In the ethic of reciprocity, and how moral concepts are not absolute but vary by culture, religion and over time.
In the positive influence of spiritual growth and awareness on society.
In the importance of freedom of conscience and self-determination within religious, political and other structures.
In the separation of religion and government and the freedoms of speech, association and expression

There might be so much more we could do in getting the ideals of Jediism "out there" if we took a more active role collectively in the outside world.

Apologies if another has already chimed in, but I haven't read every post.

I guess I've never really thought about it. I do see a trend against masculinity as I've mentioned in the Toxic Masculinity thread. But I don't think this is an example of that.

In Britain, girls aged between 15 and 20 have been able to join The Scouts since as early as 1976. And since 1990, girls aged from six upwards have been allowed into the fold.

I was in both The Cubs and The Scouts and had girls in those groups with me. I don't feel like that was a bad thing at all.

Brick wrote: Apologies if another has already chimed in, but I haven't read every post.

I guess I've never really thought about it. I do see a trend against masculinity as I've mentioned in the Toxic Masculinity thread. But I don't think this is an example of that.

In Britain, girls aged between 15 and 20 have been able to join The Scouts since as early as 1976. And since 1990, girls aged from six upwards have been allowed into the fold.

I was in both The Cubs and The Scouts and had girls in those groups with me. I don't feel like that was a bad thing at all.

As per usual, Europe is ahead of the U.S. in this respect. Being the religious tightwads that we can be sometimes, it tends to be difficult for certain organizations in the U.S. to get past the moral and ethical implications of allowing religion to influence policy. The Boy Scouts of America are heavily influenced by churches, mostly Christian and specifically Mormon, so they lean very conservative accordingly. It's going to take time for this to change, but at least it seems we're headed in the right direction.

Rosalyn J wrote: The issue brought forward in the OP is the shrinking of masculine space and mentoring opportunities. Have we thought about how the Jedi can feature in this place of need? Not only in male-male mentorship, but just in mentorship period.
There might be so much more we could do in getting the ideals of Jediism "out there" if we took a more active role collectively in the outside world.

About this. I know the doctrine also discourages evangelizing. Where do we draw the line between setting out to make a positive difference and being suggestive and biased toward our own views?

Kehta Nier wrote: [Which brings up the question:
Are girls traditionally less likely to share those interests, or traditionally told that they shouldn't share those interests?
When I was young(er), I got chastised a lot and frankly made fun of by one of my parents who had very narrow views, just for sharing those interests and wanting to learn about those things. I really believe that future generations will benefit from the current generation tossing those antiquated ideas out in favor of more tolerant views.

"Masculinity" and "Femininity" are both social constructs, so culture, religion, social class, etc. are significant factors in what is considered "traditional" behavior or interests. Even when there are biological differences, the construct defines how they are interpreted (for instance, smaller body size may be viewed as feminine and larger masculine and affect how males and females are viewed when their bodies don't fit the norm.) In my culture, boys are conditioned into gender roles much earlier than females - boys would know what behaviors would get them punished for "acting like sissies" by kindergarten, while "tomboy" behavior was considered adorable in girls and would be allowed indefinitely as long as the major gender rules weren't broken. "The Rules" for girls get outlined and enforced at puberty, and primarily focus on sexual norms and religious attitudes. This is a rural culture where outdoor activity, hunting, farming sports and things involving wheels are very popular overall, and unless the family has specific religious codes forbidding it (which are found in less common denominations), girls can enjoy all those activities and even be considered more desirable than girls who fit the "delicate" model of femininity. Boys, on the other hand, better not show the slightest interest in anything associated with the indoors or domestic sphere. While shaming and teasing were the primary forms of conditioning gender in my families, I grew up with a lot of boys who had the masculine code literally beaten into them, and many of them have serious problems as adults from it.

So it's hard to know what would be "traditional" if people were allowed to be interested in anything that pleased them without gender being a part of it. Around here, you can't separate anything out from the defining cultural ideology, though it is starting to change in some areas (though not without some occasional flares of violence). What I'm seeing is that younger generations don't like to be told what they can and cannot find appealing, and that is a major source of change. Even among my own Gen X'ers here, it's becoming a lot more common for there to be a class and religious line that determines whether or not a guy can cook or sew if he wants to - the more education and affluence involved, the more likely both genders are to pursue whatever inspires their curiosity . Whether that is someone being "against" traditional codes or simply expanding them depends a great deal on one's own cultural/ideological beliefs and what you hold as the "norm".

Groups like the BSA and GSA are also losing their social prominence as new activities keep kids' schedules loaded, and around here, church youth groups do their best to cover all social needs (leaving less opportunity for kids to be exposed to unapproved messages). They have a lot of competition. It's been a long time since I was a GSA camp counselor, but I've been hearing about the membership decline for both orgs for a long time, and there are a lot of reasons for it, as Senan's comments have touched upon (and this is going on across the board for most all historic organizations in general, regardless of gender policies). There are generational trends suggesting that new styles of family interactions are also going to change how much room there is for this kind of traditional participation - Gen Z tends to have closer relationships with parents than previous ones, and there's more emphasis on family outings to learn the kind of "scouting" skills the BSA/GSA. In short, people these days like to have fun, and don't really want a lot of historical baggage telling them what they should or should not be doing in their free time. So, I think that without change, these groups face a very limited chance for long-term viability.

I think it's good idea to include girls/young women into the Boy Scouts. There are lots of adult women volunteers in Scouts and many of them would love to have their girls in Scouts. I would have enrolled my daughter to Boy Scouts activities, if allowed, as Girl Scouts didn't connect with her. Is some of this PC? For some it will be viewed that way. I believe if it helps young women be self-reliant and better leaders then it will only help prepare them for life just as it does for young men.