Hey! Let's Open The Vaccination Can Of Worms!

Gisteron wrote: To destroy my argument it is, if you can also show that they are the same people who were vaccinated. Please, do show those things, then we'll have a case on our hands.

Vaccination is not the only vector for mercury exposure, white albacore tuna, and other mercury contaminated fish, dental fillings, mercury contaminated HFCS used to sweeten soda, etc.

I cannot provide definitive proof that these 1 in 68 (and growing) number of people consumed high amounts of mercury vectors, or that even they are more sensitive to the effects of mercury than the general public, or that if all mercury was removed from the US diet and medcine that rates of this disease would be reduced. It is not within my power to conduct such research.

All I can say is that 1 in 68 people in the US (and the number is growing) have a disease which shares features with chronic mercury poisoning, and that if a person had actual chronic mercury poisoning they would probably be misdiagnosed as having that disease, rather than chronic mercury poisoning.

Here is some research on the topic:

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21906657

Neurosci Lett. 2011 Oct 17;504(1):40-4. doi: 10.1016/j.neulet.2011.08.053. Epub 2011 Aug 31.

Chronic inorganic mercury exposure induces sex-specific changes in central TNFα expression: importance in autism?

"Mercury is neurotoxic and increasing evidence suggests that environmental exposure to mercury may contribute to neuropathologies including Alzheimer's disease and autism spectrum disorders."

"mercury exposure and neuroinflammation both are implicated in certain neuropathologies (i.e., autism)."

"These findings are consistent with our previously reported male-specific mercury-induced deficits in social behavior and further support a role for heavy metals exposure in neuropathologies such as autism."

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19593333

"A prospective study of prenatal mercury exposure from maternal dental amalgams and autism severity."

"Hg(mercury) exposure during key developmental periods was associated with autism spectrum disorders (ASDs). "

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23222182

"Previous studies have found a higher body-burden of toxic metals, particularly mercury (Hg), among subjects diagnosed with an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) in comparison to neurotypical controls. Moreover, Hg body-burden was associated with ASD severity. "

"This study helps to provide additional mechanistic support for Hg in the etiology of ASD severity, and is supported by an increasing number of recent critical reviews that provide biological plausibility for the role of Hg exposure in the pathogenesis of ASDs."

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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22810216

Evidence of parallels between mercury intoxication and the brain pathology in autism.

The purpose of this review is to examine the parallels between the effects mercury intoxication on the brain and the brain pathology found in autism spectrum disorder (ASD). This review finds evidence of many parallels between the two

...

The evidence suggests that mercury may be either causal or contributory in the brain pathology in ASD, possibly working synergistically with other toxic compounds or pathogens to produce the brain pathology observed in those diagnosed with an ASD.

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Gisteron wrote: Sorry, that's not the evidence. That's the claim.

It is not a claim it is a statement of fact.

Diethylmercury and dimethylmercury are considered some of the most potent neurotoxins ever discovered.

(source Aschner, M., and J. Aschner (1990) "Mercury Neurotoxicity: Mechanisms of Blood-brain Barrier Transport." Neuroscience & Biobehavioral Reviews, 14 (2): 169–76.)

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21350943
Thimerosal at concentrations relevant for infants' exposure (in vaccines) is toxic to cultured human-brain cells and to laboratory animals.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1928419
"Mercury from dental "silver" tooth fillings impairs sheep kidney function."

books.google.com/books?id=Soovc_GOk48C&p...0function%22&f=false
Heavy Metals in Soils: Trace Metals and Metalloids in Soils and their Bioavailability
-Brian J. Alloway
Springer Science & Business Media, Jul 18, 2012

"No essential biological function of Hg(mercury) is known. On the contrary, Hg(mercury) is among the most toxic elements to man and many higher animals. All chemical forms of Hg(mercury) are toxic to humans"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf6uCw2ztxw

Brenna wrote: How far does this avid concern over neurotoxins go for you.

Anytime I say anything in public I have to be willing to accept the debate that will result from it, as such I am not willing to discuss this in public with you.

You are welcome to message me in private about this however, so long as you keep our conversation private.

As to the rest of your points I will address them as soon as I can.

So you're saying there is a lot of factors and you don't know if alleviating any particular one of them would change anything except for that one factor we should work on because suddenly you do know that it is contributing (Double Standard) and you also at the same time don't know. Then, when asked to demonstrate correlation, you first say it would be tough to show causation (Red Herring fallacy) later to admit that not even correlation is something you can show.

Just what are you saying? That mercury is dangerous? Yea, we figured that one out ages ago and kept confirming it with all the studies you site as if they were remotely relevant to the vaccination topic at hand. And you admit that you don't know if they are, too, so what is even your argument? Why would you refer to something that as far as you know is well beside the point?

While we're at it, Brenna's question you wouldn't answer (and if you remember, I posed it to you, too, and you didn't answer then either) is indeed on topic because from what it looks like either you are equally as critical and concerned over all other seemingly dangerous things we stuff in ourselves, in which case this is not about vaccination specifically, or you aren't, in which case you are opposed to vaccination specifically and the dangerous chemical argument has nothing to do with it. With that in mind, I second her posing of the question.

Red_Eye_Jedi wrote:

Brenna wrote: How far does this avid concern over neurotoxins go for you.

Anytime I say anything in public I have to be willing to accept the debate that will result from it, as such I am not willing to discuss this in public with you.

You are welcome to message me in private about this however, so long as you keep our conversation private.

As to the rest of your points I will address them as soon as I can.

Lol. I didn't realise conversations about removing potentially toxic additives from ones environment was such a secretive subject. I was merely curious, but not that curious.

I would like to take a moment to remind everybody this is a little known internet board with miniscule correlation to legal policy(you know, a REAL CHANGE IN WHAT HAPPENS) and thus we are not likely to "fix the problem" with what we have to say here. That said, please keep in mind "having a strong opinion" is coming dangerously close to "need to be right".

Everyone has done worlds for opening my eyes. I have learned more reading this thread then I ever knew before on the subject, and several others(including what I knew about the people posting). This, so far, is a win.

For that I am thankful.

SO THANKFUL I will be keeping my opinion on the subject to myself, to be expressed in the voting booth when the proper time comes around.

Please...we are all Jedi.

Not true, rugadd. Not everybody in this post is a Jedi.

I, too, am grateful for the facts and opinions related by all parties in this thread.

I am also grateful for the lessons I've learned - and hopefully we ALL have learned in civil discourse on a topic upon which there are very different, very entrenched opinions. We have seen examples of both positive interaction and negative, all of which have something to teach us. While I'm glad I learned a lot about this thread subject, let's take a moment to appreciate the ways we can all interact with one another in a respectful, dignified, meaningful way - that any Jedi could pick up years from now and learn from. Not only learn from on the topic, but learn how we aspire to discourse with one another here at the Temple, regardless of topic or opinion.

Remember that how we conduct ourselves reflects on the community as a whole. And even though the tab by your name may be white or green today...tomorrow it could be orange or gold-encrusted and those things you wrote long ago still stand beside it. Sure, you may be a guest, an initiate, or a member...but you need to start thinking long and hard how far you want to go, or COULD go in this endeavor. What better time to start acting the part?

Gisteron wrote: Just what are you saying?

1. Mercury (and it's various forms) is one of the most potent neurotoxins we know of.

2. Chronic Mercury Poisoning (Erethism) could easily be and probably would be misdiagnosed as some form of ASD.

3. Mercury levels in fish are on the rise. HFCS, has been shown to have mercury contamination. Vaccines still contain it. Tooth Fillings still leak it.

4. As we continue to pump our population full of ever more mercury, we are also seeing a rise in ASD.

5. We know that: Exposure during development is linked to, ASD. We know those with ASD have higher mercury body burden than normal people, and higher burdens are associated with ASD severity.

6. We know that the rates of ASD have risen dramatically in recent years, as has our exposure to mercury. Now 1 in 68 has ASD.

7. This does not prove that mercury is the causal factor in all cases of ASD.

8. It's still a really dumb idea to put mercury into your body if have the option not to do so.

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Gisteron wrote: I second her posing of the question.

Not a topic for public discussion. I avoid lots and lots of things, mercury is one of them. That's all that needs to be said.

Brenna wrote: Only that its no longer present ....particularly the ones that children get

That is not true at all.

Reduced to 3mcg or less per vaccine except for influenza.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/downloads/parent-ver-sch-0-6yrs.pdf

HepB, Dtap, Hib are normal vaccines given multiple times from 0-6 months. All still contain Thimerosal. Starting at 6 months they get a flu shot, and that is repeated every year, in addition to HepA



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Brenna wrote: Its a compromise.

It's only a compromise because not enough people care to make the status quo change. Full stop.

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Brenna wrote: erm... this does not an argument make.

Yes it does actually. There is no more reason we have to use mercury as a preservative than for our doctors to smack the backs of our heads till we pass out after vaccination. Changing the status quo requires enough people caring and complaining to make change occur, and getting people to care about something they should care about is really hard, as this thread well illustrates.

In your opinion of course.

And I doubt that it's people not caring. If anything id say this thread shows that people care enough to explore the topic quite seriously. Not everyone has the same perspective on it though.