Atheism: Belief or not a belief?

TheDude wrote: As for agnostic atheists, I don't really see the point, personally. There is major doubt, but there is no real belief involved. I see it more as "I am in the process of deciding between theism and atheism and I am leaning towards atheism" than "I am an agnostic atheist". But I would say pretty much the same thing about agnosticism in general, too.

I can't say that I agree with you. The view you present there is not my position. I don't think I can really know whether there is a god, nor do I live like one exists. Therefore, agnostic atheist. I don't doubt you know what they both mean and that they are two different terms that mean two completely different things (they're not mutually exclusive and they're not co-dependent). You may take any view you like because "that's just, like, your opinion, man." lol

I've nothing to prove, nor do I feel compelled to prove anything. Thank you.

If you don't read another post I've made in this thread, read this one.

Wescli Wardest wrote: Atheism, from what I have witnessed, is anti-Christianity.

Christianity, from what I have witnessed, is anti-atheist. <-- That's a statement I could make quite easily, if I wasn't trying to make a real effort at harmony here. Look at how many times Christianity has seen those who aren't part of their group as "unsaved", "hellbound", "lost", etc. I wish I had a clicker to record every time someone tried to witness to me or get me to come to their church or convert me. Just a few weeks ago a guy at work who had previously loved me told me to my face that I'd be "singing a different tune when flames were shooting out of my ass in hell", then refused to talk to me again. I've been asked pretty regularly, "how can you stand to live without Jesus? what is the point of your existence?" My daughter was bullied about her atheism to the point where I had to pull her out of public school for two years. One girl threatened to kill her with a knife next time she saw her. For being an atheist. And when we tried to join 4-H because Girl Scouts wouldn't let her join, we had to PRAY at the beginning of the meetings. Pray to WHAT? But if you don't do it, you get stared at and interrogated. So we bow our heads and pretend something is happening. But when's the last time someone pretended anything like that for us?

We are clearly viewed as "less than", like there is something missing inside of us. The lightbulb in the fridge is burned out. Now imagine having to live with that for 40 years. Guess how many times have I been insulted and told that my existence was meaningless, that I was going to hell, that I was garbage and without morals? There are only so many times you can beat a dog before it learns to bite in self-defense.

Yes, there are ugly trends in atheism. The current trend among some of insulting and ridiculing Christians is one of them, but those are the loudmouths. You get them in every group, and in this one it is backlash from centuries of abuse. When I was in college, the leader of the nontheist group that I was in was one of those radical anti-Christian individuals and insisted on playing these hateful youtube videos before each meeting. It drove a lot of us away. He defined his atheism by hatred, which so many of the rest of us found to be horrible.

My point is that FEW of us are like that. It's like the Westboro Baptist Church... they certainly don't speak for Christians at ALL.

The truly arrogant believe in their own abilities to do and provide the same for themselves.

It isn't arrogance to believe that nature put us here by random chance and that our only quest is to make the best of what we can see with our eyes. I don't have to believe in anything at all to go get a milkshake and enjoy the weather, or to feed meters downtown with quarters so that people don't get parking tickets. In my view it's arrogant to believe that everyone has to feel the way you do or see things your way to get through the day.

But, then again, they should probably call themselves what they actually are… Anti-Christian-ist.

We call it anti-theist, to mark the difference between THOSE atheists and the others. Anti-theists tend to be the guys at the party who you don't want to stand next to or they'll talk your ear off and kill your buzz. The only people they really like is each other.

This thread certainly is a ride. Throwing in my two cents as an opinion (mind: subjective view):

“Do you believe in religion?”
“I believe in the power of religion.”

I am aware of what religion has brought to my life and don’t shun that, even with the standard set of duality a lot of good came from them. Still I believe it to be impossible to prove or disprove the existence of a deity. My solution is to not bother with trying to figure it out. Speaking of labels that would be ‘practical atheism’ or ‘apatheism’ (Wikipedia leads me to believe they are the same thing). Don’t know if I need to have a desire to explain everything in a scientifically way to fit this description though – cause I don’t have that. I like to accept things as they come to pass.

I thought about quoting people and answering each one individually and then I thought, why?

I have not said that I am in support of Christianity. I never said that anyone has to believe the way I do. Nor have I said that any belief system is better than another. In fact, I have given examples to the contrary. :dry:

And again, I have had words put in my mouth and what I have written was ignored for its actual content. :pinch:

There are many people that are not interested in others views, just defending their own. Which is fine and completely what I expected when I posted to this thread the first time. :lol:

So I will step out of this conversation and let people debate about whether a non-belief in something constitutes a belief… And not suggest people take a look at themselves and what they actually believe. :whistle:

Actually, this was a good read. I'm bowing out too. I feel I've grown, learned something new, and stances are getting circular.

I love this Temple.

yeah i believe i am done aswell , good discussion , good points , much to think about