Jesus Christ

Llama Su wrote: Symbolism is an important aspect to culture...
In my opinion, Jesus was black, why did the cultures whitewash sculptures, etc.?
To reflect their ideology...

he was born in bloody palestine to nazerines and raised in galilee

he wasn't white

he wasn't black

he was bloody arab!

Adder wrote: It's one of the first questions I remember from being a young Catholic kid; how do we know what he looked like? I'm pretty sure I remember the Nun's saying no-one knows, and that the image/idol is not what is important, and that Jesus must be looked for within oneself. In this way statues were meant to remind, ie mnemonics, and not as literal accurate representations. In this context then I guess it would make sense to have local race Jesus's
:woohoo:

yeah but people definitely knew...

Jesus christ ( pun intended) we are looking at a middle eastern religion strictly through a western scope it seems... The eastern churches always portrayed something that seemed reminiscent in ICONS ( not images or idols... ICONS) he was middle eastern... arab nazarene... they could tell from Jesus christ's accent. The galileans were fairly easy to identify.. and any roman Christ met, knew he was a hebrew, an ARAB ( I know I'm stressing this... but he was either black or white, apparently... it's just hilarious to me). You knew if somebody came from that area. It's like here... you know if somebody is a scot. Their walk, their accent , skin colour etc etc.

Funny story, when Peter got accused later on, he starts swearing at all of them lol.

You know, I'm an admitted and outspoken racist, and I don't have the preoccupation with race that the world seems to have. Not meaning to attack the OP, just getting that out.

Sid's right- the Eastern churches, some of them anyway, depict Christ as non-white. For instance, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church depicts him as black, and the Antiochian church depicts him as Arab. I believe the Egyptian Christians also depict him as an Arab. My belief is that the images of Jesus we see today are so old that they came from a time when people weren't likely to regularly encounter a person of another race, if at all. That's why the European Jesus is white, the Ethiopian Jesus is black, et cetera.

As for his actual race, I imagine he'd look like a modern-day Sephardi or Mizrahi Jew, as in, the ones that are native to the middle east, not the Ashkenazim that we are more familiar with, which look European. There's a theory that he was more European looking due to his Amorite heritage, but personally, Isa al-Masih is Isa al-Masih to me, no matter what race he was.

sidvkili wrote: You knew if somebody came from that area. It's like here... you know if somebody is a scot. Their walk, their accent , skin colour etc etc.

Jing's, crivvens an help m'boab laddie, whitiver gien yi thon idea?, ah mean it's nae like wir aw dain the highland fling doon thi road in wir kilts y'ken!.

Leandros Von wrote:

sidvkili wrote: You knew if somebody came from that area. It's like here... you know if somebody is a scot. Their walk, their accent , skin colour etc etc.

Jing's, crivvens an help m'boab laddie, whitiver gien yi thon idea?, ah mean it's nae like wir aw dain the highland fling doon thi road in wir kilts y'ken!.

thankk ah'rve biin pruuvin wronng

The real Hebrew Israelites are black... Or are you saying Jesus was a Ashkenazi Jew??
Because you migrate somewhere, that destination does not change your origin...
"You can take the kid out the street, but you cannot take the street out the kid."
The real Jews left Israel, fake Jews arrived...
Can there not be black Arabs?
Arabs are dark skinned, too, no?

This is just speculation anyhow, opinion...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus

Llama Su wrote: The real Hebrew Israelites are black... Or are you saying Jesus was a Ashkenazi Jew??
Because you migrate somewhere, that destination does not change your origin...
"You can take the kid out the street, but you cannot take the street out the kid."
The real Jews left Israel, fake Jews arrived...
Can there not be black Arabs?
Arabs are dark skinned, too, no?

This is just speculation anyhow, opinion...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus

Nobody's saying that Jesus was an Ashkenazi. Ashkenazim didn't even exist until over half a millenium after Jesus died, and are not very Semitic, being essentially a mix of Turkic (Khazar) and white, with some Semite thrown in.

"Black Arabs" do exist, but all the term really means is a black person who is culturally Arab. In other words, blacks who directly or indirectly were brought into Arab society due to the slave trade, and their descendants. In Jesus' day, though, the Arab slave trade hadn't started, so there would be no substantial number of blacks in the area in which the New Testament events take place.

Saying that the Israelites were black is no different than British Israelism, or the Christian Identity Movement, except that it's Afrocentric instead of white nationalist/supremacist. There are Jews native to Israel/Palestine. They are the Sephardim and Mizrahim. They are Semitic and I've met some that are physically indistinguishable from Arabs.

Llama Su wrote: The real Hebrew Israelites are black... Or are you saying Jesus was a Ashkenazi Jew??
Because you migrate somewhere, that destination does not change your origin...
"You can take the kid out the street, but you cannot take the street out the kid."
The real Jews left Israel, fake Jews arrived...
Can there not be black Arabs?
Arabs are dark skinned, too, no?

This is just speculation anyhow, opinion...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_appearance_of_Jesus

they're can be black israelites. But to say the " real hebrews" were black is really uneducated and it reflects in your citation lol.

Star pointed out the black intergration in hebrew culture... they had africans in the area yes... but they would be as dark as the egyptians

So he (Jesus)has Jewish culture and Jewish heritage, being born in Israel/Palestine...
He was dark skinned... If it even matters...
The uneducated need to be taught, This is why I say the "real" Hebrew Israelites, because some claim this heritage, and are not...

Llama Su wrote: So he (Jesus)has Jewish culture and Jewish heritage, being born in Israel/Palestine...
He was dark skinned... If it even matters...
The uneducated need to be taught, This is why I say the "real" Hebrew Israelites, because some claim this heritage, and are not...

Many Semites are dark-skinned... I think the average Arab or Middle-Eastern Jew could qualify as dark-skinned.

If you're arguing that sub-Saharan Africans are the true Israelites... go talk to Farrakhan about that. That argument has no place in a rational discussion. I'm a racialist white person who fully admits that Isa/Jesus was a Semite, not an Aryan/white. If I brought the "white Jews" argument in here, I'd get banned like nobody's business. What I'm reading here is pure anti-Semitism.

I am considered white, and am against no race, or religion... Apologize for giving that impression, just looking for understanding... No meaning to be misleading... I am anti lies, anti deceit... I will leave this discussion for those who know better, I can only trust my own history anyhow... Peace

Star Forge wrote: I'm a racialist white person who fully admits that Isa/Jesus was a Semite, not an Aryan/white.

that's why when you aren't talking about beating your wife or boasting about "ass" you are actually pretty smart. At least in this aspect of history

Llama Su wrote: So he (Jesus)has Jewish culture and Jewish heritage, being born in Israel/Palestine...
He was dark skinned... If it even matters...
The uneducated need to be taught, This is why I say the "real" Hebrew Israelites, because some claim this heritage, and are not...

Also where did I say he was " light skinned"?

I said he was arab, arabs often have dark skin but the ethnic group of arabs are actually considered white. You weren't talking about " dark skin" you blatantly said black...which isn't arabic or semitic, ethnically. Now granted there can be arabs and semites who are black but they would not be of the original lineages of palestine.

I don't think what race Jesus was matters, you only have to look at the bible...

Galatians 3:28. (KJV).
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

and then jump to

JEDI BELIEVE
"In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin."

Both the Christian and Jediist teachings say the same thing, we are ONE and the same all bound within the force (or christ) as you will.

Leandros Von wrote: I don't think what race Jesus was matters, you only have to look at the bible...

Galatians 3:28. (KJV).
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

and then jump to

JEDI BELIEVE
"In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin."

Both the Christian and Jediist teachings say the same thing, we are ONE and the same all bound within the force (or christ) as you will.

I'm not doing this because I have to or feel the need to lol. I do it because this interests me and I like history.

sidvkili wrote: I'm not doing this because I have to or feel the need to lol. I do it because this interests me and I like history.

You mistake me Sidvkili, I was not questioning anyone's motive, merely stating an observation of my own, I thought this was the point of a discussion ??

Leandros Von wrote: I don't think what race Jesus was matters, you only have to look at the bible...

Galatians 3:28. (KJV).
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

and then jump to

JEDI BELIEVE
"In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin."

Both the Christian and Jediist teachings say the same thing, we are ONE and the same all bound within the force (or christ) as you will.

I don't either. But you have to consider the context. I could say "Jesus was a Middle Eastern Jew," which is my belief, and that's just an objective statement to me. I don't attach any special significance to the fact that he was a Jew.

On the other hand, a Christian Zionist, of the kind that are in no short supply here in the USA, would say "Jesus was a Jew so we need to support Israel no matter what," or even "Jesus was a Jew so we need to kill all Muslims, because one of the Five Pillars of Islam is the extermination of Jews." I wish I was kidding.

One could say "Jesus was white because he had Amorite heritage." And another could say "Jesus was white because Jews are the scum of the earth and are all swindlers and only whites have souls, and whites are the true Israelites," as is preached in the Christian Identity Movement.

I'm a Muslim, so this is not an extremely heated debate for me. Isa is one of my most revered prophets, but as a Muslim living in America, I've had to learn not to get angry over religious discussions, or I would have lost it by now

Leandros Von wrote:

sidvkili wrote: I'm not doing this because I have to or feel the need to lol. I do it because this interests me and I like history.

You mistake me Sidvkili, I was not questioning anyone's motive, merely stating an observation of my own, I thought this was the point of a discussion ??

one already given before in the very discussion, old son

Star Forge wrote:

Leandros Von wrote: I don't think what race Jesus was matters, you only have to look at the bible...

Galatians 3:28. (KJV).
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

and then jump to

JEDI BELIEVE
"In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin."

Both the Christian and Jediist teachings say the same thing, we are ONE and the same all bound within the force (or christ) as you will.

"Jesus was a Jew so we need to kill all Muslims, because one of the Five Pillars of Islam is the extermination of Jews." I wish I was kidding.

none of the five pillars says to kill all jews

sidvkili wrote: one already given before in the very discussion, old son

But by someone else, not me, I wasn't throwing it in there to open it for discussion, just stating that the overall impression I get from it is that it doesn't matter so why is it that we care so much about it ??

The question we should be asking ourselves is not "what colour was jesus", but "why do we place such importance on his ethnic origin".

To me the answer is a simple one, because we have been raised in a society that has not yet learned to be tolerant of other races, sure we are making progress in this regard but take America for example, there were still folk who thought it outrageous that a Black Man should be President... you may think yourself not racist but if your own daughter come home wearing a Burka and introducing her new Islamic boyfriend I'm sure there would be a pang of "wait a minute this isn't right" this is not what I had intended for my daughter, I myself know that this is the case for me at least, there would be a point of me feeling racial hatred born of my ego, this is due to me growing up in a time where anyone of color was still looked upon as different, I can't believe looking back now that my gran / grandad / stepfather would without thinking answer "she's run away with a darkie" when I questioned where my mother was.

I can acknowledge this though, this racist seed planted in my persona when i was younger allowing myself insight into where I am wrong in my thinking, giving me the opportunity to adjust my attitude towards the subject to the one where I judge the man on his character and the way he treats my daughter, not his creed or the color of his skin.

I think sometimes to do the right thing we have to admit to ourselves that our thinking is wrong, it's only when we stop to reflect that we see the bigger picture.

But this however has veered of topic so I'll leave you guys to your discussion.