Native American Religions

I have quite a few Native American friends having grown up very near a reservation.
Was there a particular tribe you are interested in, or just general?

I'm no expert on Native American Religions however I have studied and still study the tribal system of life. As far as I know this is so far the only system that creates an equilibrium between humans and nature.

rrhodes67 wrote: Just wondering if anyone has studied various Native American Religions. It's something I'm interested in, but I'm not sure which books are good and which are just hooey.

Without being specific what State or large city are in or near? I'll find some leads for follow up on. Once you start talking to people in the native community you will find out a lot. We have an active community in Rochester New York if you want that info.

*looks around.......*

Well I am Native American and do participate quite a bit in tribal activities. I can speak our language and try to be as traditional as possible when it comes to most of the customs.

I'm Ojibwe/Chippwa/Anishanabe (same tribe different ways to identify)

I also went to college to become an anthropologist so I can help tell the story of the Native North and South American because no one seems to give a fig about history in this side of the world before 1492.

So I don't know how qualified I am but I am the genuine article. Is there anything I can help with?

May the Force be with you Always
Roz

Just like studying any other path...

There is a lot of hooey out there... Prolly more hooey, than good info, although Im sure the good info is plentiful too...

Roz, I would disagree with your saying their is a lack of interest, but, history isnt something most people like until they are older, and without the free time...

Kids, those with the most free time, are too busy with other stuff...lol...

I too, am of native american decent, but Im so watered down, that it is pointless for me to worry about it...

But, It is American history, as well as the Europeans coming here...

Excuse me a second...

[getting on soapbox]

That is the trouble here in America...

We forget there was a culture here before the Europeans... Had columbus stayed where he was, or they not taken over the land, we would have developed differently...

Just as the Asians and Europeans did... They basically share one huge block of land, yet are vastly different...

What would America have been like had the Native Americans been allowed to grow as the predominant race?

So, instead, things have gone the way they have...

And, why do so many Americans feel the loss of 'roots'?

Cause we didnt grow from this land...

We were 'given' it from our ancestors who took it from the native people...

And, like children, we are only concerned for what we could make/have/obtain, and not how to care for what was already there... Big spoiled children...

As a country, we care more about the opinions of our 'big brother and sister' countries, and how we are viewed in their eyes...

And honestly, while they love us as siblings, and for what we can bring to the table, they also despise us for little whiny children who act like brats...

We need to suck it up, close our doors, and work on ourselves...

Find out who we are, find our center, nationally...

OK, IM done, lol

[/off soapbox]

So, anyway, there are interested parties Roz...

My grandmother was French/Mohawk. My daughter is Mohawk.

Check this out if you wish:

http://www.ganondagan.org/

It's a great place. Peter Jemison is an Elder Leader.

No problems Jestor. I'll agree to disagree. There is interest to a point but not to the point of major digs and such like there is in Egypt and thats sad. We have an amazing archeological history right out our back door and most people miss it day to day, without a second thought. I agree with everything you said as well.

Here is the other problem. I can't just recommend a book. I need to know what you are looking for. Thats like asking a mechanic of Toyota Prius's to take a look at a 1990 Ford 150. Or like an expert of Medieval England to talk about the Medieval era of Japan. They may have an understanding of what was going on but if you want to really know what happened you need to go the source.

Some stuff out there is really well written and some of it is bunk. I can talk about the woodland people all day long but I cannot speak but generally about what was the correct for someone on the West Coast.

90% of pop culture about Native Americans is also bunk. Throw all those movies right out the window. Including Dances with Wolves. I remember almost falling off a chair when I heard an elder get really mad in particular with that movie and hollering out "Theres no such thing as Dances with Dobermans or whatever that damn movie is called!". I laughed so hard, my sides hurt for a long time after that.

Also of note is that each tribe and group is considered its own country in relation to the United States. Each one has to be dealt with in its own ways with its own treaties and such. So what might be true for the Ojibwe will not be true for an Apache.

To add further is that we are dealing with remnant populations of people, some of them in what would be considered third world countries, such as Pine Ridge in SD. Mr. Columbus when he bobbed over the ocean with his buddies wiped out at least 90% of the entire population of Native North and South America without firing a shot due to the massive diseases that hit like wildfire. Also most of these people are less than 100 years off the reservation or tribal type lifestyle. My own grandmother went through the assimilation period. Thats two generations back.

It wasn't even until the 1970's that Native Americans were even allowed to practice their spirituality.

So understandably a lot of Native Americans are very bitter.

I want to help tell their side of the story. Its what I've always wanted to do. So I will help you where I can and I do have a lot of friends across the country. So ask away but be specific with what you are looking for. If you want something general I'd advise you to look at a college anthropology textbook. If you want specific tribe then I can help you dig it out further.

May the force be with you always,
Roz

I'm curious as to why you'd have to be specefic with your question. The author of the post said various Native American religions. Couldn't a person easily offer a book suggestion based off the customs and tribes they're familiar with? If I had a good book about the Lakota I would share it...even if that might not be exactly what they're looking for. You never know, information about one tribe could spark interest in the other tribes.

I mean, you have to start somewhere, right? It's like a job. "We can't hire you until you have experience." "But if I can't get hired then how do I get experience?"

How can you be specific about a question if you have little or no knowledge about the topic?

Very true Wendaline. I would hope that the author already has some questions formed though... hope.

The reason I suggested speaking with a person rather than just reading a book is because people are a wealth of knowledge and experience. For example, I have read many books on WWII, but I feel I never learned more about it then when I sat down and listened to the ones that were there.

Beliefs and religions are very similar. Because, they are just as living as the people who cherish them. And they live and grow as we do. Also, a person is interactive and you can explore a multitude of avenues in a short while... things and places that might not be covered in just one book.

Which I am sure you already know all this... I just like to ramble.

I just so happened to be reading a book called Native American Wisdom. One of the most important things I get from this book is when the Nez Perse Chief Joseph said:

"We do not want churches because they will teach us to quarrel about God!"

Also in the writings it talks about education being handed down from mother to daughter and father to son. Learning was not done by books, but by example.

I await the lessons to come from this thread jedi_roz.

I had a really big explanation typed up last night and my husband came into my studio to ask me a question and I hit a wrong button and it got eaten so here is round two.

Firstly I must not have described what I was trying to get at correctly so for that I am sorry. I also want to make it clear I’m not trying to be all high and mighty either. So I’m sorry if I have come off that way its not my intention at all.

Source is always important. Here is why. There are over five hundred fifty tribes of recognized Native Americans in the United States of America. (I’m sorry I cannot tell you how many are in Central and South America, I do not know, for this let’s just use the US) That’s 550 countries with their own governments, policies, treaties, cultures, customs, languages, foods, etc, all within the United States boundaries. It is not even remotely fair to lump them all into one little book.

Wendaline, you said “Couldn't a person easily offer a book suggestion based off the customs and tribes they're familiar with? If I had a good book about the Lakota I would share it...”

Sure, but again what are you looking for? Lakota? Okay cool, did you want a general history, or did you want something that includes the entire Sioux tribe? There are actually three branches, the Lakota, the Dakota, and the Nakota. So you want something about the Northern Plains or do you want something that also encompasses the Southern Plains because then you have to include the Cheyenne, the Osage, the Crow…

I have a very dear friend who is the Head Buffalo Woman of the Sioux Nation, she is an amazing elder and one that I love and respect deeply. She’s got some amazing stories to share including things like her participation in the Second Wounded Knee. That’s something that you just can’t get by reading a book. Her leader is Chief Arvol Looking Horse, the 19th Generation Keeper of the White Buffalo Calf Pipe. I have sat with him, listened to his stories, met with him on sacred days, and ridden his horses. He is an amazing man. However if I compare them to my tribe the only thing we have culturally is that historically our tribes were at war. Oh that and we breathe air.

I have a couple other friends that I’ve met through college. One is a Hawaiian Native and her world is so much different than mine that again I can’t even compare it. Or another who is part of the most northern tribe of Inuit in Canada. We don’t tan deer hides the same or even enter a house the same way.
My tribe? Sure! Which area are you curious about? Canada, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota, North Dakota? Did you want Fur Trade info, Marriage customs, General histories, stories, tribal politics, law, treaty violations, etc. These all vary by state/region. I speak pretty decent Ojibwe but if I talked to someone from the Canadian tribal groups we wouldn’t even sound the same because the dialect is so different that we couldn’t communicate.

Its not that I’m trying to be difficult but unless I know where you want to go I can no further point you to a direction in the sky, you also have to remember that history and most books are written by the winner. So most of the books out there (especially older books) are written by prejudiced white men with a different agenda. They wanted to make the Native American appear less than human, that’s why the US was so okay slaughtering them by the droves.

One must also remember that not everyone is proud or wants to be associated to be a Native American. Yes I have a tribal background but I’m also English, Irish, and Swedish. I also did not grow up on a reservation so I don’t have those experiences that I can talk about. Some reservations are in such abject poverty they are considered 3rd World Countries, right here in the US! Pine Ridge SD is a perfect example of this.

We also get a lot of pretenders that attempt to make money off of Native American Spirituality. Anyone remember a few years ago in Arizona with that jerk that was supposedly having “authentic Sweat Lodges” and packed something like 70 people into a tent and then boiled them to death? He killed over ten people and was claiming he was this amazing spiritual guru. I’m sorry but that’s bull, it also led to a lot of bans in Native America of white people attending ceremonies for fear that they would go to one, think they understand it and then try to pull the crap that idiot was doing.

We talk about it all the time in circles, we call it “Selling the Sacred”. Traditionally there is no price for wanting to be a student to learn, and what that man did was wrong, to the point of really polarizing a lot of people. We don’t have licensed leaders who have to take tests and such to show how much they know because if you have lived in that culture your whole life and walked the red road you have been trained all those years. You know what to do.

It’s just not that easy of saying recommend a good book. It doesn’t work that way.

Please forgive me if I seem presumptuous or arrogant because that is not my intention, but to educate and help guide those who want to know more.

May the Force Be with you Always,
Roz

Wow, you just think more in depth than what I was expecting.

The author wanted a book about religious practice. And my comment about the Lakota was not a question about them (they're the family tribe) but a comment that if I had a book about the Souix or Lakota I would just pass it on.

I think many or most people get that any nation (NA or otherwise) is a very broad and information dense topic. But sometimes when people are starting out trying to collect knowledge (like religious practices) they might not have their questions as finely tuned as we might want them...and any book could be of help.

I mean, if I hadn't also grown up around Catholicism I wouldn't know specifics to ask about, like communion, Ash Wednesday, the pope, why they don't eat meat on fridays, or that there are actually quite a few branches of Catholics and that they don't all follow the same traditions.

I would just ask people if they could reccomend a good book on the subject.

But I understand that that may be hard for you. I just hope others might have some interesting reads. No one is putting all the responsibility on you.

Like a good overview, where once a particular aspect of Native American life caught interest, then a direction could be followed....

Ok, first off I'm not anywhere close to knowing everything about any particular tribe. I do however have a strong pull towards the spiritual aspect of the Native American tribes. One thing I have found is that you'll NEVER know everything from a book as most tribes prefer to keep the sacred, well sacred.

Some of the books I have found that fit with some of the things I am interested in are as follows:

Walk in Balance by Sun bear, Crysalis Mulligan, Peter Nuffer and Wabun
Shamanic Experience by Kenneth Medows
Native American Hunting and Fighting Skills by Colin F. Taylor
The Medicine Wheel by Sun Bear and Wabun
Indian Medicine Power by Brad Steiger

Not sure which ones would be considered bunk and which ones would not. I have a few others I found that are on my Nook that aren't listed. There aren't any tribes close enough to where I'm at in Texas to actually make talking to one all that easy. That and none of the full blood's that I know would talk to much about some of the topics I'm interested in.

May the Force be with you and guide you.

Surprised my name hasn't been mentioned yet.

I follow some of the Cheyenne beliefs and know a fair bit about them ^^

I think there are two ways of looking at this:

From an intellectual standpoint, I see Roz' opinion and agree with it wholeheartedly. There is so much more to every subject than just the 5 simple questions. You really do, to offer any truly helpful information, need specific questions to guide the process, because otherwise there is so much information to have to sort through.

At the same time, though, most people don't know what questions to ask, because in order to truly know that, you must know something about the subject in the first place. If someone came to me and said "I've never had tea, what should I try?" it would be useless for me to ask if they're seeking a green, a black, an oolong, or to explain the difference between a tea and a tisane, or to start up a discussion about rooribos. Instead, I should just put on a kettle and pull a teabag from the cupboard.

To be fair, those who know a topic the best are not always the best to introduce the topic, because it's very likely that we forget what it was like when we knew little about it ourselves, unless we have to teach it often. Perhaps this thread should work together to present rrhodes67 with just enough information that they can figure out what questions to ask for themselves, but not enough to overload them?

I never meant to alienate myself either so I apologize if I have offended anyone. I guess I was over eager to help and was trying to be more specific than you are looking for. I'm just very passionate and wanted to help.

My fault.

May the force be with you always
Roz

Thanks everyone for the input. I'll gather it all mentally and perhaps have more questions. I think one of the questions touched on was what specifically I was interested in. I think some of it is for lack of a better term faith healing. My grandmother apparently was able to heal people by touching them. My mom always said it was a gift she'd been given through Native American blood, but I was never able to get her to teach me, maybe because I didn't share the bloodline, I'm not sure. But basically I'm just interested in it overall, not a tribe specific thing. The other area, and not sure how with a disability it would be possible is that of spirit quests, token animals and all that. I think it fits with the Jedi thing though.

In case anyone is ever interested in Kanien'keha (Mohawk) or Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) culture, I am a Mohawk and therefore an Iroquois. I am more than happy to share my cultural background.

Navajo

I am from Utah. And have met several Navajo's....sadly I was just a kid then and didn't know what the right questions were to ask when I did see them. I was too much in awe at the fact of seeing them than to care about culture lol :laugh:

Now that I am much older and a story writer I did have a few questions.

I am attempting to write a story about post apocalyptic/earth shattering/Rifts/Magic returning stuff. One of the characters was going to be a Navajo Skinwalker bad guy of sorts....not really bad....but...ya know...has his own selfish ideas about survival of the fittest

Please do not take offense of these questions. I ask them because I got into a heatted debate with another writer who was quite....narrow Minded. She claimed to of lived on a reservation and new all about it...but I do not believe her. So...I am asking these for Clarifications.

* Are Navajo's Anti Social? As in they prefer to stay on their reservation and not interact with the outside world?

* How difficult is it for Navjo to get an education, rise up through college and get Master Dagree or two.

* Is it possible for a Navjo to be successful in education and still partipate in other hobbies?

* Would a Navjo travel from say Utah where his reservation is to a large place like New York?

* Are Skinwalkers able to be....Good Shamans of the earth? I always heard Skinwalkers were so frightening that the natives are fearful to even talk about them....but these other writers seemed to think good shamans could perform the same techniques as Skinwalkers (Despite all the lore and information on the web)