from \"Hagakure\"

the following is an excerpt from the book Hagakure, it's an interesting passage as it relates not only to jediism but to life in general.



Because we do most things relying only on our own sagacity
we become self-interested, turn our backs on reason, and things
do not turn out well. As seen by other people this is sordid,
weak, narrow and inefficient. When one is not capable of true
intelligence, it is good to consult with someone of good sense.
An advisor will fulfill the Way when he makes a decision by selfless
and frank intelligence because he is not personally involved.


all too often people become so obsessed with doing things for themselves that they absolutely refuse to do the reasonable thing and ask for help, this often results in their endeavors failing often spectacularly.

to the outside observer this appears as the individuals personal weakness because they can't/won't ask for help. it also shows the narrow mindedness of the person and it is a very inefficient way to do things, after all you can't be in two places at once.

the logical thing to do would be to find someone with knowledge of what you're trying to do and ask....sometimes it takes someone outside of the problem to solve it.

as jedi we must be able to stand back in order to see the problem, we must be able to use reason and intellect to determine a method to solve the problem, and we must be able to work with others in creating a solution.

I like that passage - even if it is overly convoluted (sp.) the point is very true 'two minds are better than 1'

Sometimes we know the answer already - but somehow need to hear someone else say it - maybe this is a weakness in someways - but i guess its human nature.

MTFBWY - A

i thrive at operating independantly, but i'm not above asking for help when i'm stumped, nor do i reject help if it's needed. i've seen many people destroy things simply because they were too proud to ask for or accept help. pride is good to have, however one should not be so prideful that it hinders their progress.

I have always said, \"I am not a team player.\" Refering to the fact that I do not like to rely on others, and strive to be self reliant. But, I am not so stubborn that I fail to see the value of other people's thoughts and ideas.

This affected me in sports as well. I did not like the conventional \"team\" sports. I enjoy the solitary sports, where it is you, against the elements (yourself). I do not like football, baseball, etc. I do like martial arts (of course), golf, cycling....

To give a person one’s opinion and correct his faults is an
important thing. It is compassionate and comes first in matters
of service. But the way of doing this is extremely difficult. To
discover the good and bad points of a person is an easy thing,
and to give an opinion concerning them is easy, too. For the
most part, people think that they are being kind by saying the
things that others find distasteful or difficult to say. But if it is
not received well, they think that there is nothing more to be
done. This is completely worthless. It is the same as brining
shame to a person by slandering him. It is nothing more than
getting it off one’s chest.

this is another good one and relates well to the training/learning process. as many know from experience, voicing one's opinion isn't as easy as it should be and rarely does it produce the desired results. anyone can look at someone and determine what they are doing right or wrong, but trying to tell the person is more challenging because they have to be receptive to the comments, even then there's the chance of what's being said getting misinterpreted. many give up once the misinterpretation has occurred, this becomes a great disservice to all involved as it doesn't clarify the intention. clarity brings understanding, understanding brings learning, learning brings knowledge.

Moreover, if at the time that you are asked to perform some
function you have deep happiness or great pride, it will show
exactly as that on your face. This has been seen in many people
and is rather unbecoming. But another type of person knows
his own defects and thinks, “I’m a clumsy person but I’ve been
asked to do this thing anyway. Now how am I going to go about
it? I can see that this is going to be much trouble and cause for
concern.” Though these words are never said, they will appear
on the surface. This shows modesty.

i like how this one seems to almost praise the person that knows their own weaknesses yet continues to persevere. modesty is a good thing to have, it shows a lack of arrogance and shows willingness to do whatever is asked whether you're skilled at it or not.

no one will know you're strengths and weaknesses better then yourself. while pride is good, too much pride is arrogance and harmful. one should always take pride in what they do, however they should not think themselves the greatest at what they do.

when i was younger i used to think i was a great martial artist, and my dad would always tell me \"no matter how good you may be, there is always someone better\". i use these words even today to push myself during training as i do truly feel that no matter how good i may be there really is someone out there in the world that may be better then me. we should all think this way, then we would all strive to be our best.

RyuJin wrote:

Moreover, if at the time that you are asked to perform some
function you have deep happiness or great pride, it will show
exactly as that on your face. This has been seen in many people
and is rather unbecoming. But another type of person knows
his own defects and thinks, “I’m a clumsy person but I’ve been
asked to do this thing anyway. Now how am I going to go about
it? I can see that this is going to be much trouble and cause for
concern.” Though these words are never said, they will appear
on the surface. This shows modesty.

i like how this one seems to almost praise the person that knows their own weaknesses yet continues to persevere. modesty is a good thing to have, it shows a lack of arrogance and shows willingness to do whatever is asked whether you're skilled at it or not.

no one will know you're strengths and weaknesses better then yourself. while pride is good, too much pride is arrogance and harmful. one should always take pride in what they do, however they should not think themselves the greatest at what they do.

when i was younger i used to think i was a great martial artist, and my dad would always tell me \"no matter how good you may be, there is always someone better\". i use these words even today to push myself during training as i do truly feel that no matter how good i may be there really is someone out there in the world that may be better then me. we should all think this way, then we would all strive to be our best.

Always, and in everything, it could be said that there is someone \"better\".

I also remember this fact. My dad once said he always tried to be as good as my grandfather. Then one day, grandfather informed dad that dad was no longer the appentice, he was a master.

I went a different path than my father, I have never had that. Always though, I can say I try my best. Can a humble person descibe himself, or herself, as humble? I think not. I don't consider myself humble. I am outgoing, and sure of myself. Others tell me I am too humble. Others, say too dominate.

Like the force, like a lot of things, it depends. Where are you in this point of perception? Where am I? What are our states of mind?

At any given point of the day, with the right circumstances, connecting with a particular person, I can be all and none of these qualities.

I think that can be said as well for any of us here at TOTJO. I am forty years old, and JUST a little too old to be learning......... or, that is the perception of most folks.

If we are here at TOTJO, then it must be said that we understand that there are folks (read - masters), who are just a little further along in the understanding. And we have much to learn from them.

this is just a bump, cause somehow I erased the topic... sorry..

i spend a great deal of time at college with people almost young enough to by my children, they always have trouble accepting my age. then in a few classes i have people that are old enough to be my parents and they too have trouble accepting my age.both groups think i'm much younger then i actually am.

i have seen plenty of people over 50 going back to college showing that you're never too old to learn something new.

Greetings each

I love the book,so much so I named my bud club in the same name. I have read through it many times and still learn from it
Compassion lies at he heart of genuine helping.Often our helping is out of personnel desperation to avoid our own pain, Insist on helping others,in turn you will yourself,

the force guide you

Yours in the spirit of Budo

Mike