Questions for educ admin and council

I have not gotten much (any) response to my questions in the other thread so thought I would bring them here and direct them accurately.

When will the pax templi be published?

Is the AIP still in use and if so are the points still applied to the A-div?

Are there teaching options for those obtaining the degree but not knighthood?

Why is there no published policy and procedure manual for apprenticeship?

Are there official transcripts kept of our academic journeys here? I would assume that if we are earning degrees and they are accredited by the educ admin dept there would also be a requirement to maintain official transcripts by that dept. So how do we get access to them?

Have you tried PM-ing Senan, Firewolf, and Alexandre with these questions? Although it's commendable to open a new thread I'm not sure the mechanism is going to work that way. There are no published "expectations we may reasonably have from councillors and those who fill titled roles at TotJO" with which to hold people accountable. There is no duty to respond, whatsoever. Not even with an "I'm just not interested in doing all that work. You draft it, and I'll let you know".

I've had difficulty too with official channels. I'm thinking we probably have to, with patience, walk the path of mutual understanding with the individuals involved. Try opening communication up with individual councillor(s) and/or role holders. Maybe they will respond with a "Sorry, been busy, remind me in a month", or a 'in my view, we're never going to get around to it". It might be perfunctory, but at least it's communication. This thread may get some social pressure added to a persons "cause"; but I'm not sure it solves the problem of the fact the individual(s) with whom we are communicating don't feel compelled to respond. It may, in fact, make the miscommunication worse, as people will feel pressured, rather than invited, to show a shared interest in our interests.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I have not gotten much (any) response to my questions in the other thread so thought I would bring them here and direct them accurately.

When will the pax templi be published?

Is the AIP still in use and if so are the points still applied to the A-div?

Are there teaching options for those obtaining the degree but not knighthood?

Why is there no published policy and procedure manual for apprenticeship?

Are there official transcripts kept of our academic journeys here? I would assume that if we are earning degrees and they are accredited by the educ admin dept there would also be a requirement to maintain official transcripts by that dept. So how do we get access to them?

The Pax Templi would be published when it is ready to be published. I find the name a bit curious ; documents rarely bring peace -- they most often bring litigation over their scope and applicability, not to mention interpretation of meanings.

There is still the AIP (or SIP) although I'm not sure who is heading it up just now. The credit given for +IP work was never to be applied to the A. Div. -- it was to be kept on record and the credit given at the end of an Apprenticeship for inclusion in the progress toward the B. Div.. This measure was to ensure that all apprentices would indeed do a complete degree during the Apprenticeship (there are various reasons for that).

Here again, we have to recognise that the A. Div. does not grant knighthood in and of itself. The A. Divinity degree is a necessary but not sufficient pre-requisite for eligibility for Knighthood, In theory, one could work through the IP, some +IP lessons (AIP/SIP ... or whatever we're calling it now), an A. Div. a B. Div. and probably many - if not all - lessons in the Seminary without ever being Apprentices, much less ever Knighted. Likewise, since the degree work is part of, but not all of, what is to be done during an Apprenticeship, then it is quite probable that many Apprentices can accumulate 100+ dqs points over the IP to make for a degree but not yet be anywhere near ready for Knighthood. In this sense, the degree can be conferred - that pre-requisite met - but the training continues ; there is no reason to wait to confer the degree until the other requisite factors have been satisfied. Granting the degree is recognition of the (academic) work done -- it is not a coupon to be redeemed for Knighthood. I have one quite un-official "apprentice" who will probably remain so for quite a while who is not really interested in getting a degree or a title in the TotJO, but is is very sincere in his interest in the fundamental values of the Temple. Interestingly enough, we never see him moaning about how unfair things are here...

It has even been the case recently where the learner has been told "not yet" for Senior Knight and one for the rank of Master. The degree is only part of it, not the whole (perhaps not even the most) of the consideration taken. So, you see, it is not merely arbitrarily deciding who gets Knighted...

Personally, I would acquiesce to granting the possibility for teaching to someone bearing the A. Div -- just not teaching Apprentices. On holding the A. Div. would be a valuable asset to the IP Team and even good at working with AIP/SIP learners. But that is going to be very conditional and selection based too, character being a very influential aspect of who is going to be allowed to teach (share whatever they think they have learnt). Yet, that is personally. It would have to be discussed in Council and some pretty firm boundaries set -- and then respected.

It is hard to set a policy on Apprenticeship, except in how they are formed and the obligations of both Apprentice and Mentor. Ideally, the Apprentice and Mentor get to know one another quite well ; that is how the lessons are decided -- by what the Apprentice needs to learn, via what process(es) and when according to what one is confronting/being confronted by in Life at that moment. It is for this reason that I find "Apprenticeship Lesson Plans" just absurd. A fixed palette of lessons can be proposed to someone who is just wanting to pursue a degree - a "curriculum", if you would - but Apprenticeship needs to be now to be pertinent to a degree aimed at acquiring Knighthood.

As far as records go, we don't have a registrar's office. With regard to most of degree work, the Journals are the record.

Has this helped ?

Thanks twigga, but do you agree with this attitude?

These people take on a leadership role and with that role comes responsibility. They love the idea of the mantle of responsibility and they bask in the glory of their worship by others but when they fail to fulfill that responsibility to the people they just become another bloated glory hungry politician drunk on power.

All I hear over and over is how much the council does for us, how much they sacrifice. Well it's bullshit if it does not translate to prosperity of the membership. It Is just glory mongering. I'm sick of them telling us how much they do, I want them to show us how much they do!! Demand and we will rebel, but prove it to us and we will believe!!!

Alex, thanks for your reply. As for your own apprentice that does not pursue knighthood, cool, but I feel you used it as a tool to slam me, not cool. I was simply asking typical questions that apprentices have not specific cases, so I find your comment in that regard lacking.

In fact I find you particularly lacking in understanding when it comes to the general membership of this place and the inherent issues in that regard. Your mishandling of my case is my evidence for this. Water under the bridge now but I would not wish that on another in my place.

Your answer here in the aip is even different that another given here. It seems that even among the elite there is no consensus as to process or procedure. Why are these things not published to dispel this confusion? My opinion as to why is because you invite the confusion over the policy so you can squirm out from any answer asked as you see fit.

Alexandre Orion wrote:
As far as records go, we don't have a registrar's office. With regard to most of degree work, the Journals are the record.

Has this helped ?

I find this particularly disturbing. I would be one that pursues the b-div now that I have the A-div but I don't want knighthood.

However I am also a controversial figure here so who judges those point if there is no objective standard to tally them? They can't be Indepentantly reviewed according to unbiased standard. So who judges them and how are they judged? Does anyone here want to trust their journey here to such a subjective standard. I feel it completely destroyes the degree scheme and makes it simply a popularity contest.