The Evangelical Problem

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23 Feb 2012 10:02 #51363 by Star Forge
Replied by Star Forge on topic The Evangelical Problem

V-Tog wrote: As we've discussed before, I know it tends to be 'worse' in the USA and so my commenting on matters where you are is based more in the realms of guesswork and speculation. But surely there are plenty of evangelists who, although we might disagree with their views, are doing no harm to anyone? We should always be careful not to tarr everyone with the same brush. There definitely are a very small amount of people in the world who have those views that you have just listed and would make them law if they could. But there is surely no way whatsoever that homosexuality could ever be made punishable by death in America, for example. It's possible that you may see some of their beliefs being voiced in politics more often if certain people/parties were to get into power. But I can't see that the whole of America will suddenly become an evangelical Christian dictatorship sort of thing.

Whatever will happen in politics will happen. I don't know to what extent the Republicans are 'evangelical'. But if they win the next election, it will be because they are the most popular party - this is how democracy works. Therefore should they get into power, people have voted for their views, as such, and people who don't want them just have to accept that popular vote is, at the moment, the only fair way of running a country.


You're right, they can't realistically kill gays, or end abortion for that matter, but they have the Republican party in a chokehold. I as a Republican find this disturbing. Much like the Labour and Conservative parties in the UK, the Republican and Democratic parties are not two monolithic groups, but instead are diverse and eclectic. The Republican party has two main schools of thought. The one that I identify with is the libertarian/classical liberal side, which is focused on personal freedom and small government. The side of the evangelicals is militantly religious, authoritarian, and extremely dogmatic. Despite our profound differences, we have several common goals as well as common "enemies, " if that word is not too harsh. Problem is, the evangelicals are a big group. The Southern Baptist Convention is the largest protestant denomination in the US, and while it would be wrong to portray them all as far-right radicals and bigots, they do have a high tolerance for them and have put many of them in positions of influence, the biggest example being Falwell (no pun intended). Since they are so numerous, they can provide a LOT of votes and can determine the outcome of primaries, and play a huge part in elections. George Bush, for instance, is a United Methodist like myself, but due to having to appease the evangelical masses, he had to adopt the persona that he did, of a "born-again" bible thumper. I'm all for tolerance, but when you've got people making evolution a political issue, or trying to reinterpret the constitution to make their religion supreme, then there is a problem...

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  • Jax Secura
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23 Feb 2012 10:26 #51367 by Jax Secura
Replied by Jax Secura on topic The Evangelical Problem
Star Forge,

I am a Christian and a patriot. I do not believe Creationism should be taught in public schools in the US or anywhere else even though it could be argued that is as much of a theory as Darwinism. In the USA it clearly crosses the line of separation of church and state and should be left alone.

Where I live, in Indiana, a bill proposing the teaching of Creationism had a stipulation to also include instruction in origin of life theories from multiple religions including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Scientology. Fortunately intelligence has prevailed here as this bill has been shelved. For how long? Who knows.

Public schools should focus on a curriculum of study that is based in and supported by facts.

Media is king in the US. The extremists would seem to be the commodity that drives viewership and the news media continues to put a camera in front of them. I am not one to rattle chains or get stirred up when I have an opposing point of view but I don't completely ignore it either. I take it for what it is as I see it and with matters of government I, when given the opportunity, vote. That, I can control.

I am an individual and I know me. I have never been a fan of labels. They have a tendency to create stereotypes that inaccurately place people under this umbrella or that one. In turn society has a tendency to judge all based on the acts of a few. It's not just in politics either. Commerce could be shoulder some blame as well. Targeted advertising subdivides consumers and business decisions are made based on the results. It can be a bit of an animal and society feeds it.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Tommy Lee Jones as Kay in "Men In Black."

I place my faith in the individual as opposed to the group. It is at the individual level where we can impart the most change. One by one within ourselves.

No one speaks for me even though they may likewise call themselves Christian. All the statistics they can churn out does not lump me into a demographic or percentile or speak on my behalf.

Apologies if I got a bit off topic.

Humbly,

Jax

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23 Feb 2012 10:33 #51370 by Star Forge
Replied by Star Forge on topic The Evangelical Problem

Jax Secura wrote: Star Forge,

I am a Christian and a patriot. I do not believe Creationism should be taught in public schools in the US or anywhere else even though it could be argued that is as much of a theory as Darwinism. In the USA it clearly crosses the line of separation of church and state and should be left alone.

Where I live, in Indiana, a bill proposing the teaching of Creationism had a stipulation to also include instruction in origin of life theories from multiple religions including Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Scientology. Fortunately intelligence has prevailed here as this bill has been shelved. For how long? Who knows.

Public schools should focus on a curriculum of study that is based in and supported by facts.

Media is king in the US. The extremists would seem to be the commodity that drives viewership and the news media continues to put a camera in front of them. I am not one to rattle chains or get stirred up when I have an opposing point of view but I don't completely ignore it either. I take it for what it is as I see it and with matters of government I, when given the opportunity, vote. That, I can control.

I am an individual and I know me. I have never been a fan of labels. They have a tendency to create stereotypes that inaccurately place people under this umbrella or that one. In turn society has a tendency to judge all based on the acts of a few. It's not just in politics either. Commerce could be shoulder some blame as well. Targeted advertising subdivides consumers and business decisions are made based on the results. It can be a bit of an animal and society feeds it.

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." Tommy Lee Jones as Kay in "Men In Black."

I place my faith in the individual as opposed to the group. It is at the individual level where we can impart the most change. One by one within ourselves.

No one speaks for me even though they may likewise call themselves Christian. All the statistics they can churn out does not lump me into a demographic or percentile or speak on my behalf.

Apologies if I got a bit off topic.

Humbly,

Jax


I'm not arguing against people, just bad theology. You can't say that everyone, or even most people in Nazi Germany were bad, but you can justifiably call Nazism evil as a doctrine.

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23 Feb 2012 11:05 #51373 by Proteus
Replied by Proteus on topic The Evangelical Problem
From what I've observed, there is one element among the fundi Christian's, republicans, and the media which puts them at the front every time... drama. Anything that excreets "drama", is what the media and its watchers seem to crave. This makes for a good story. Christian fundamentalism is a breeding ground of drama (god hates fags, the unsaved will burn in hell, etc etc). The right republicans (if that is the correct side I'm thinking of?) operate much upon scenarios around drama (war and terrorists). This is typical brainwashing (whether intentional or not) because many people seem to be attracted to where the action (drama) is and that has a huge influence in what goes down.

"It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know."
- Alan Watts

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23 Feb 2012 12:27 #51385 by Brinus
Replied by Brinus on topic The Evangelical Problem
Christian fundamentalism and Islamic extremism will either destroy each other or the planet.

Try and realize the truth, there is no spoon.

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23 Feb 2012 21:53 #51402 by Star Forge
Replied by Star Forge on topic The Evangelical Problem

Proteus wrote: From what I've observed, there is one element among the fundi Christian's, republicans, and the media which puts them at the front every time... drama. Anything that excreets "drama", is what the media and its watchers seem to crave. This makes for a good story. Christian fundamentalism is a breeding ground of drama (god hates fags, the unsaved will burn in hell, etc etc). The right republicans (if that is the correct side I'm thinking of?) operate much upon scenarios around drama (war and terrorists). This is typical brainwashing (whether intentional or not) because many people seem to be attracted to where the action (drama) is and that has a huge influence in what goes down.


Oh, the Democrats love drama just as much, but theirs is about trying to find racism where it doesn't exist, or some other kind of discrimination. In the case of either party, it's just small, extremist sides on either side thriving off artificial controversy.

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