Combining church (the institution) with Jediism

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12 Jun 2009 15:07 #23394 by
I consider myself a Christian (baptized Lutheran). I also belief that religion and the church as an institution don't always agree. Meaning, my personal deep held feeling about my religion and the way I am supposed to belief according to the church (pastors, bishops, those who make the rules).

Having said this, how do you work it out when something that your heart tells you is negated/forbidden/frowned upon in your church? Let's take the example of women in the church. Where I come from, women are allowed to be pastors, but my current church does not. It's still Lutheran, just this particular section doesn't do it (I learned that after attending worship there for quite some time, never occured to me that they would not do it).

This is a minor example, but what about homosexuality? I am supposed to fervently pray for anyone homosexual to be cured from their sin. All the while I am thinking \"Who am I to judge someone else's love?\". Or am I really to believe in the inerrancy of the bible? That the bible must not be interpreted in terms of when it was written and for whom?

So, what it boils down to is that my childhood (I guess) was more liberal.

Would you think it hypocritcal of me to stay with the church and just quietly not agree to these teachings? I like the people there, they are kind and considerate. Just some of our views are different. In general I think that being Lutheran gives me the option/right to opt out of things. Marting Luther basically re-examined the Catholic Church's belief and came up with something else. Not that I compare myself with Luther, but his conscience told him that this was wrong (what the Catholic Church said).

Then I supposed what it also boils down to is: May I please follow my own conscience in regards to these issues? What do you think?

Gosh, what a long post. Hopefully not to convoluted...

MTFBWY

Marela

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12 Jun 2009 15:24 #23396 by
Actually - you are probably not alone - your explanation in ways sums up why i walked away from christianity totally as a teenager - I felt the bible was warped by human rules and interpretations and certainly didnt cater for the (then) 20th century - and when I asked questions - i got disney horror like replies (or ignored or told to stfu)

BTW - youd fit into what we call the Abrahamic Rite (if you didnt already know that) ie followers of the force as well as Christianity (among others)

Now then - in my mind - the church is where your heart is - if you really really dont feel comfortable withthe church you attend - then dont attend

Im no priest and im certainly not an insider into 'gods' will or thoughts but Id like to think that 'God' is a being that is happy as along as one behaves in life in a just and fair manner - and I think to do this is simple - treat others how you want to be treated yourself

I am not trying to tell you to quit church or anything like that - all im trying to say is that im sure your God doesnt want you to be unhappy? - Could you find a church with teachings that you are happy with?

I dont think you are hypocritical as such - but \i dont see the point in self torment when it isnt necessary - I dont know how approachable your minister(s) is/are but you could try talking to them or even one from a totally different parish who doesnt know you.

May I please follow my own conscience in regards to these issues?

I think you already know in your heart the answers ;)

MTFBWY -A

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12 Jun 2009 17:14 #23398 by Garm
In these matters regarding the church, I am reminded of the words of my favorite of Japanese swordsmen

\"Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help.\"

~ Miyamoto Musashi

Marela, as Master Kana said, look for the answers within. You know what is right for you.

MTFBWY :)

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12 Jun 2009 18:52 #23400 by Br. John
\"Respect Buddha and the gods without counting on their help.\"

Indeed!

Or as I've heard; pray as though everything depended on God but act as though everything depended on you.

Founder of The Order

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  • Neaj Pa Bol
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12 Jun 2009 20:42 - 12 Jun 2009 20:44 #23402 by Neaj Pa Bol
The topic of church -vs- religions will always be a point of discussion, no matter what faith or non-faith.

I have always held the belief that it is each individuals choice on how to believe, so I say to anyone, let your heart, meditation, etc., guide you to your answers....

Tell me and I forget, teach me and I may remember, involve me and I learn. Benjamin Franklin

Let the improvement of yourself keep you so busy that you have no time to criticize others. Roy T. Bennett, The Light in the Heart

Participated in the making of the book, “The Jedi Compass”with 2 articles.

For today I serve so that tomorrow I may serve again. One step, One Vow, One Moment... Too always remember it is not about me... Master Neaj Pa Bol

Faith is daring the soul to go beyond what the eyes can see...

Faith is a journey, not a guilt trip...

Quiet your emotions to find inner peace. Learn from ignorance to foster knowledge.
Enjoy your passions but be immersed in serenity. Understand the chaos to see the harmony.
Life and death is to be one with the Force.

Apprentice's: Master Zanthan Storm, Jaxxy (Master Rachat et Espoir (Bridgette Barker))
Last edit: 12 Jun 2009 20:44 by Neaj Pa Bol.

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12 Jun 2009 21:07 #23403 by
I suspect many Catholics use birth control, even though the church is opposed to it. (Certainly most Catholic couples aren't having quite so many children these days ...) There are a handful of Orthodox Jews who are homosexual, even though the Torah condemns male/male relationships in no uncertain terms. There are many self-styled \"witches\" in the world today, and in spite of the Bible's insistence on their execution, very few Jews or Christians attempt to kill them.

Bottom line: the Bible orders a number of actions that are unacceptable or simply impossible nowadays, and followers of Judaism and Christianity find ways to cope. If you don't adapt your understanding of a document to suit the changing times, it becomes a dead document. If you have ever studied law or civics, you know how we keep updating our interpretations of the U.S. Constitution and other laws, and sometimes we have to add a new law or erase an old one. How much more so with the Bible, which comes from a more foreign time and place?

I think you can still belong to a church even if you don't support all of that church's teachings. In fact, I worry a little about people who go to a cleric for advice and accept their cleric's recommendations without asking any questions or pondering, \"Does that sound right to me?\" You always have to filter suggestions through your own conscience and decide whether you want to go along.

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13 Jun 2009 23:34 #23439 by Jon
There are always two sides to a coin and in this case we have the personal situation and an ecclesial edict. Each has its follow up story, reasons, positions and interpretations. One fact is that a Church cannot cater for the individual yet has to come up with an answer which millions are asking. Everyone is expecting an answer where some will like what they hear and others not. For those who are satisfied the problem is resolved, and yet those who are not are at the very least made to think. And even though the Roman Catholic Church is say against contraceptives it does also say in Roman Canon Law (which no one seems to know, consider or remember) that each has decide according to their own concience. So as so many have already stated do what you feel but also do not be afraid to be put into question and think about what you do. Then you might say well look what will happen to me when I do what I feel, isn`t that an injustice! True! But we are not in this world for ourselves but for others. Our actions will make the institutions think (even if this does not seem so) and even help them to change.

The author of the TOTJO simple and solemn oath, the liturgy book, holy days, the FAQ and the Canon Law. Ordinant of GM Mark and Master Jestor.

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