"Not all Truth is true..."

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02 Dec 2014 16:13 #172261 by steamboat28
I ran across an article discussing a story called "Tiny Deaths" (post contains plot spoilers) which raised a very interesting question about art and Truth.

I've often heard it said that "art is a lie that tells the truth" ( a paraphrase of Picasso ). This story is apparently an example of that.

I recently engaged in a few conversations with militant anti-theists who claim that the Bible is "factually untrue" and therefore "useless." I could not disagree more; regardless of the truth of the matter, there is still much Truth in those scriptures for those who will look, the same as with any other work of art.

What do you think? Where do you draw the line?
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02 Dec 2014 16:22 #172263 by Rickie The Grey
Replied by Rickie The Grey on topic "Not all Truth is true..."

militant anti-theists who claim that the Bible is "factually untrue" and therefore "useless."


Well it proabably is for them and too bad for them.

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02 Dec 2014 16:34 #172267 by Goken
Replied by Goken on topic "Not all Truth is true..."

steamboat28 wrote: I ran across an article discussing a story called "Tiny Deaths" (post contains plot spoilers) which raised a very interesting question about art and Truth.

I've often heard it said that "art is a lie that tells the truth" ( a paraphrase of Picasso ). This story is apparently an example of that.

I recently engaged in a few conversations with militant anti-theists who claim that the Bible is "factually untrue" and therefore "useless." I could not disagree more; regardless of the truth of the matter, there is still much Truth in those scriptures for those who will look, the same as with any other work of art.

What do you think? Where do you draw the line?


I tend to agree with you on this Steam. It reminds me of Joseph Campbell saying that all religions are true in their own way. One of my favorite things about listening to the Campbell lectures in the IP was his stress on the message more than the messenger.

The stories of the Bible are just that, stories. But they are stories meant to illustrate points and those points are what we should focus on, regardless of how we got to those points.

I also believe that taking the Bible literally has been the cause of a lot of problems throughout history. That shouldn't mean, however, that we through it all away as useless.

P.S.

I love the Picasso paraphrase and the fact that you used truth and Truth. Little t and big T. :cheer:

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02 Dec 2014 16:43 - 02 Dec 2014 16:43 #172270 by Zenchi
Replied by Zenchi on topic "Not all Truth is true..."
The fact that "the good book" has been the catalyst for the unjustifiable persecution, torture and killing of millions makes it difficult for me to follow it, much less respect it. I personally found the Gospel of Thomas (selectively removed from the book) far more interesting than the entire Bible itself.

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Last edit: 02 Dec 2014 16:43 by Zenchi.
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02 Dec 2014 17:07 #172274 by Zephyrus
Replied by Zephyrus on topic "Not all Truth is true..."
That's an interesting thought, Zenchi.

Say somebody found a Math formula that could create infinite happiness and infinite destruction (as anything that is "all-powerful" must do, due to the law of omnipresence). If a lot of people used it to kill and destroy... would you view it as anything less? I wouldn't. I would see it as an independent thing, and try to use it to the best of my abilities for good.

Fire is the catalyst for great destruction too.. but, I don't think anything less of fire because of it. I am just cautious and use it judiciously with no malice intent.

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02 Dec 2014 17:37 - 02 Dec 2014 18:36 #172277 by Zenchi
Replied by Zenchi on topic "Not all Truth is true..."

Connor L. wrote: That's an interesting thought, Zenchi.

Say somebody found a Math formula that could create infinite happiness and infinite destruction (as anything that is "all-powerful" must do, due to the law of omnipresence). If a lot of people used it to kill and destroy... would you view it as anything less? I wouldn't. I would see it as an independent thing, and try to use it to the best of my abilities for good.

Fire is the catalyst for great destruction too.. but, I don't think anything less of fire because of it. I am just cautious and use it judiciously with no malice intent.


Yes, well not all of us are "Christian Jedi." I have of course other reasons, the one offered was the most polite... :)

Lumping math and fire together to justify or make sense out of why someone may find interest in the Bible makes for very poor examples, lol. I did not post my opinion in some attempt to offend, if someone has a problem with it, please pm me instead of derailing this thread...

My Word is my Honor, and my Honor is my Life ~ Sturm Brightblade
Passion, yet Serenity
Knighted Apprentice Arisaig
TM- RyuJin
Last edit: 02 Dec 2014 18:36 by Zenchi.
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02 Dec 2014 19:24 #172282 by Cabur Senaar
I see what you're saying, Steam. For me, the issue is that I do not like the stories in the Bible. Not more than a few, anyway. I take my stories from other books.

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02 Dec 2014 22:01 #172313 by Oneiros
Replied by Oneiros on topic "Not all Truth is true..."
When it comes to the bible specifically, I don't believe that the events depicted in it are historicallytrue, but the turths of some of the stories in the bible are "factual." I think the truth of a story depends greatly on what one reads into it.

Personally, I don't put any more stock in Christian mythology than I do in Greek or Hindu, but everything has its value. There's something to be learned from everything and everyone, so I wouldn't agree that the bible is "useless."

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03 Dec 2014 01:41 #172336 by Rickie The Grey
Replied by Rickie The Grey on topic "Not all Truth is true..."
Well said and that is the a truth. :)

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03 Dec 2014 02:59 #172354 by SeventhSL
Replied by SeventhSL on topic "Not all Truth is true..."
I find a lot of truth in the bible and stacks of great advice. It is a real shame that a lot of people can not see the difference between what is written and how men have manipulated it to achieve their own ends.

As Zenchi said some of the best bits are the books that were left out like the Book of Enoch, Jasher and the lost books of Eden. Actually there is just stacks of them that are referenced in the bible. I also find translations that are as close to the original scripts as possible to be the most enlightening. Huge difference between something like "Thou shalt not murder" and "Thou shalt not kill" like it is written in modern translations.

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