Abrahamic religions and the Force

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21 Mar 2014 21:54 #142189 by Jorge
Abrahamic religions and the Force was created by Jorge
Greetings.
For those of you who don't know my name is Jorge.
I'm 19 and a senior in high school; grew up Catholic but left the church due to what I felt was their rejection of my abilities.
Let's just say I've had a bad experience with 2 of the Abrahamic faiths--Christianity and Islam because I see both of these faiths as exclusionary in 2 senses;
first the heaven and hell concept which I don't buy into mainly because every faith group says essentially if you're not with us you're condemned (which is actually the first thing that made me realize that I simply did not agree with that since I was Christian and my best friend was a Muslim and she's one of the nicest people you'll ever met and someone who is more religious then I've seen many Christians),
and 2 I felt like they were rejecting me because I had basic differences with both faiths; while I was part of the church I spoke to Muslims and got the sense that my Force abilities would not be welcomed there either.
However, I registered on here and have seen several apprentices who are members of the Abrahamic community so I was wondering, how do you consider yourself both a Jedi and a member of the Abrahamic community?
I'm just asking because I know several people on here with empathy and so on and those abilities are usually either misunderstood or completely rejected by theologians in the Abrahamic sphere.
And of course I know people have their own interpretation of the bible, or the Quran or Torah but I was wondering how people learned to accept the existence of both the Force and a deity?

Thanks, and I'm sorry I know my post is rather long.

Jorge

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21 Mar 2014 23:03 #142197 by Llama Su
The answer you seek is within your own journey, perhaps this is why you are here...
May be the answer is found in the IP.

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  • Sidewalker
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21 Mar 2014 23:52 #142200 by Sidewalker
Replied by Sidewalker on topic Abrahamic religions and the Force
"In the beginning, God spoke the word. And The Word was The Force?" I dunno. Try reading the bible like a Jedi, and you might see some pretty cool stuff.

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22 Mar 2014 00:46 #142207 by SilverWolf
Dear Jorge,

First of all, Welcome to the Order!

I am almost 44 years old and probably one of the most religiously confused people you will meet! 90% of my family is Irish Catholic, I was raised going to a Baptist church until about 10 years old then my parents just quit going to church for some reason and I adopted the belief that you do not need a church building to believe because god is everywhere. In 2001, I went to a pentecostal church in Alexandria,Louisiana and was baptized there because to my knowledge I had never been baptized. I have gone to many different churches and so far have only found one church that was in Aiken,South Carolina "Aiken Oasis" with the pastor being Ray Popham leading the church. It was the one church that was a church building that I believed to be like home. I have been to other churches but never had the same experience with church or religion. The one thing that steered me away from the christian religion is when my son Aiden was born because his mother and I were not married, they refused to Bless Aiden unless we were married and had been part of the church for 2 years and baptisted in the church. I do believe in god, but I highly doubt God would turn his back on getting a newly born child being blessed. That is one of the reasons why I joined the order, I had already lived my life like a jedi but never really made the connection. I also never really felt comfortable or sure if the church was making it's own rules and saying that it was "God's word" or was it really. I think religion to a point has become a lot like looking things up on the Internet, there is so much bogus crap that has posted and altered to fit other peoples opinions or political beliefs that it hard to tell what is truly god's word and what is made up to fit the church. Jediism has been the most honest, sincere, religion that I have run across ever and I have never regreted joining the order and becoming jedi completely instead of trying to hide how I was because I thought people would look at me like I was 30 cards shy of a full deck. Personally, I believe that we need to find our own truth of what we believe to be true and stick with it. Read the Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Quran, or whatever book that helps you learn about that religion and when you have read all of them take each one and make it a special part of you. A belief in religion does not mean that you only learn one side of it and that means that it is the only version you listen to. Knowledge is power, and the broader spectrum of religion you learn, the more knowledgable and open-minded you will be to the ever-changing world around you.

Sidewalker, you have a great way of looking at things as far as looking at the bible as a jedi, I might have to try that.
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22 Mar 2014 01:42 #142219 by steamboat28
A lot of the potential answers to this question depend greatly on how you choose to define "The Force", and whether you designate Jediism as a religion or a philosophy. While TOTJO is a religious organization, there is a philosophy associated with this religion. Much like the way the West handles much of Buddhism, you can take the philosophy without the religion, but you can't take the religion without the philosophy.

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22 Mar 2014 10:20 #142253 by Ve-Lo-Zi
Replied by Ve-Lo-Zi on topic Abrahamic religions and the Force
I personally can see the Force as being the Holy Spirit, the Divine essence which guides all beings and gives them life. That's the reason by the way why I actually liked the "old" version of the Simple Oath better where it had the promise of "allegiance to the Force AND ITS WILL" because it implied the Force as having some sort of "personality" in the sense in which the Holy Spirit is regarded as a "person" (I use this term in its original philosophical meaning of "persona") in Christianity. I wonder why it was changed?

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22 Mar 2014 10:57 #142256 by bard
Replied by bard on topic Abrahamic religions and the Force

Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: I personally can see the Force as being the Holy Spirit, the Divine essence which guides all beings and gives them life. That's the reason by the way why I actually liked the "old" version of the Simple Oath better where it had the promise of "allegiance to the Force AND ITS WILL" because it implied the Force as having some sort of "personality" in the sense in which the Holy Spirit is regarded as a "person" (I use this term in its original philosophical meaning of "persona") in Christianity. I wonder why it was changed?


I'm glad it was changed. I only decided to return and continue the IP when I found out that sort of wording had been removed.

Jediism is a very open ended and inclusive religion - you can put just about whatever spin you want on it. That's what makes it so awesome!

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22 Mar 2014 11:59 #142259 by Proteus

Ve-Lo-Zi wrote: I personally can see the Force as being the Holy Spirit, the Divine essence which guides all beings and gives them life. That's the reason by the way why I actually liked the "old" version of the Simple Oath better where it had the promise of "allegiance to the Force AND ITS WILL" because it implied the Force as having some sort of "personality" in the sense in which the Holy Spirit is regarded as a "person" (I use this term in its original philosophical meaning of "persona") in Christianity. I wonder why it was changed?


It was changed because there are many here who do not believe the Force has a will, and so, they did not feel comfortable taking the oath while it included a very critical ideal in it that set their personal beliefs about the Force apart from others'. Removing the verbal assumption of a will allowed it to be more open and friendly for both those who don't believe it has a will and those who do.

It seems that I know that I know.
What I would like to see is the 'I' that knows me when I know that I know that I know.
- Alan Watts
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22 Mar 2014 14:58 #142264 by steamboat28

bard wrote: Jediism is a very open ended and inclusive religion - you can put just about whatever spin you want on it. That's what makes it so awesome!


I would actually contend that this is what makes it more of a philosophy than a "true" religion, but that's a very unpopular opinion around these parts.
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23 Mar 2014 03:28 #142316 by Zephyrus
The word religion can either be a restrictive thing or an expansive thing. For some, the word is limiting in their minds. Those are probably the people who do not like "Jedi" as a religion as it implies that people are closing themselves off and labeling themselves.

If the word "religion" is expansive for you, if it opens you up from a darker place, then those are the people who like the word religion associated with Jedi. As always, there is a lot of gray area in between, and that's where most lie.

I agree with Steamboat that Jedi is probably "technically" a functional philosophy. It is living, breathing, being challenged, and used... However, it is how many of us would view an "ideal" religion, or what religion could stand to be.

Maybe this is why we labeled it a religion in the first place. Isn't this also why many NRMs take the "religion" name on as well? They fancy themselves the NEW religion. They think their version of religion is right.

*shrugs* In the end, all this defining is only so helpful. And, really only to the intellectual mind.

The Black Wizard ~ Rainbow Chaos Magick ~ Thelemite

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