Physical TOTJO Temple in Texas Project

Awesome Adder, . J3di would definitely draw in the MMORPG crowds.

I come for the lego temple..when do we get them phortis?......certified lego junkie here...need mah fix....

Storge wrote: As to the copyright name, .... or use the Japanese form Temple of the Jidai Order?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jidaigeki

Best I can see Jidai means 'era' or 'a time; a period;'. It is close enough visually, and could be pronounced the same. Just the translation is a bit confusing for me 'Temple of the Time Order'.. but its definitely interesting. There is no rule not use a label which transcends literal meaning to instead look and sound like something which does not exist.

Yeah, it does not translate very well. Based on wikipedia : In an interview, Lucas has specifically cited the fact that he became acquainted with the term jidaigeki while in Japan, and it is widely assumed that he took inspiration for the term Jedi from this.

But I'd be cool with temple of the time order. It sounds like Dr.Who's time lords

Having a physical temple is a great idea! It would definitely help us legitimize our faith to those around us, and many more people will seriously consider joining. Even though I haven't gone very far in my studies here I say I am a Jedi when asked about spirituality and I have gotten many laughs after a few months, so I can only imagine how the rest of you feel. I do not react, I usually just laugh along. It doesn't bother me other than there are many people I can see enjoying and benefiting from this community if it were something they would seriously consider. We could not have a complete Temple right now by any means, but purchasing land is a great start. Then we could start with a simple worship hall of sorts, to use for certain rituals. Then we could add an addition, or an outdoor shelter, for some events not so formal.

I don't think the question should be if we get this ball rolling, it is how we should go about doing it. I'm sure we all want to see it eventually, and buying land would be a great first step. And we all love nature right? Well, I'm sure some of us absolutely hate the heat, but we could totally do a lot of work ourselves! Maybe some of those around here could do the wiring, maybe someone builds buildings and could lay the foundation cheaper than a regular contract at the least, and if not hire professionals for the necessities. I don't live anywhere near there so I couldn't meet on the weekends regularly or anything but I work at a college so I have regular breaks where I'm obligation free and I could take the whole summer off if I wanted. I'd find a part time job in the area if I had to and have fun learning to build stuff or whatever I was doing. I'm sure it's possible if we all just put in some effort.

I'm almost done rambling! I know the group of people willing to participate would vary based on the job, but where there is a will there is a way! Maybe I'm too hopeful about pitching in and building something together; but at the very least we can have a place to meet for special occasions, and it will legitimize us to others. That will cause an increase in membership from there, and that will help the idea of a Temple become even more feasible. I want to dedicate at least six months of my life to being a monk in this life, and I'd love to do it at the TotJO! Come on guys!

Not trying to be rude(?), condesending(?), just matter of fact about this...

But, Scientology has a building, and look how 'legit' many think they are...

Catholics have buildings, shoot, their chieftain has a sovereign home, and I (as well as many others) left their teachings...

If we need a building to legitimize our beliefs, we might as well close up shop... lol...

We will always be jokes to those who dont understand... Thats ok, I like making people laugh... Thats why I choose this username long ago... That, and I am kinda goofy, :lol:....

We are legit in our hearts...

Just keep that in mind...

(everyone, Im not just addressing Degataga)

^Exactly. No need to make a building for that.

The reason I've thought of for creating a physical space is to offer more direct and useful interaction. What we cover in "days" here on the forum could maybe be worked out in hours in a day at a physical meeting. For teaching, we could offer healing classes with certified people. Or, psychology classes... or, even

And no, there's no reason it has to be Jedi specific. It just can be if we wanted it to be.

In the end, a building is a convenience. A good convenience, but not a necessary one. In fact, this website is also a convenience. A very nice one, indeed, but one nonetheless.

That we need a site, a community, for this faith to exist, is a fallacy. If we, as a group, yearn for "legitimacy", we will be chasing it helplessly for the rest of our natural lives.

That the word jedi is an adaptation of the name for a Japanese film genre is, I think, an important fact to note when we are asked about our being Jedi and the origins of Jediism. It locates the burden of proof away from citing Lucas' fictional films as the source. Noting that jedi is derivative of the film genre that interprets a period in Japanese history is a good starting point when explaining Jediism, but then to refer to the original inspiration, an appreciation for the historical bushido, and then to describe how TotJO is, in part, a contemporary expression of ethics of the samurai would be, I think, a clear and concise introduction.

Alan wrote: ...then to describe how TotJO is, in part, a contemporary expression of ethics of the samurai...

I agree with your premises but not your conclusion. Bushido deals a lot more with hierarchal relationships than TotJO cares to, and the primary form of punishment--shame--isn't applicable here.

Alan wrote: Noting that jedi is derivative of the film genre that interprets a period in Japanese history is a good starting point when explaining Jediism, but then to refer to the original inspiration, an appreciation for the historical bushido, and then to describe how TotJO is, in part, a contemporary expression of ethics of the samurai would be, I think, a clear and concise introduction.

Although I do see and partially agree with your point of view Steamboat, I believe Alan was simply including the modernization of the Bushido as quite a few Individuals are beginning to integrate the principles and philosophy of the Samurai into their daily lives. This of course has and will continue to change the dynamics as it will inevitably evolve as more people bring this philosophy into the modern age. The Temple is much more lenient (thankfully) than the Bushido's strict code and hierarchy, and I personally don't see too many of us performing "seppuku," regardless how bad life gets, lol.

Zenchi wrote: I believe Alan was simply including the modernization of the Bushido as quite a few Individuals are beginning to integrate the principles and philosophy of the Samurai into their daily lives.

Cherry-picking bits that seem "cool" is not the same as adopting principles. When you disassemble a belief structure and only take the individual parts, you no longer have that belief system any more than a child picking the pecans off the top of the pie is eating pecan pie. This is not a modernization of bushido, it is the adoption of certain principles (that can be found in numerous non-bushido belief systems and codes of conduct) at the cost of bushido's wholeness. Which, incidentally, discards the all-important context in which the individual beliefs exist.

steamboat28 wrote:

Zenchi wrote: I believe Alan was simply including the modernization of the Bushido as quite a few Individuals are beginning to integrate the principles and philosophy of the Samurai into their daily lives.

Cherry-picking bits that seem "cool" is not the same as adopting principles. When you disassemble a belief structure and only take the individual parts, you no longer have that belief system any more than a child picking the pecans off the top of the pie is eating pecan pie. This is not a modernization of bushido, it is the adoption of certain principles (that can be found in numerous non-bushido belief systems and codes of conduct) at the cost of bushido's wholeness. Which, incidentally, discards the all-important context in which the individual beliefs exist.

It ultimately is a matter of taste and opinion. I personally view it as a form of evolution.

If adopting a set of beliefs and/or philosophies inspire people and they in turn are able to use it to make their lives better, more power to them.

Is it true Bushido? Of course not, anyone making such assumptions needs to spend more time studying it. I would hope any members who have spent a couple of months here would know better.

Jediism is an evolved amalgam of several different beliefs and philosophies, (as is Christianity) that doesn't make it any less meaningful for it's followers.

Things evolve, or they stagnate. Some may find that offensive in regards to paths like the Bushido, etc, but it is happening.

Some will fight it, some will attack it, others will see the value in adopting certain principles and beliefs that speak to them on some profound level and make it work for them...

666 wrote: well...
when I start working on cafepress and zazzle i found that "LucasFilm" or whatever is called, own the copyright of crazy things as the word "Jedi" and many others .

Maybe if someone really build a temple there is NO WAY to call it Temple of the Jedi Order
because copyright infringement, so ...

What is the point to have a temple, that can not carry our name?

in my opinion right now, we need to find first what are the LEGAL options to use our name.
or more crazy, try to find why " Jedi" is copyrighted, or worst, try to make "lucasFilm" release the rights of it.
Or even more crazy, go straight to George Lucas. ( maybe doesn't work, because now Disney own some of the rights)
Maybe we need to deal with Disney?

I know, there's money involved in this process too, but the only way to make something Legit/Legal, is to do it right.
and right now, looks impossible to use our name...
Maybe they allow this website just because we aren't big, and because we are just a few guys, and we don't make any money, and there is no presence in the real world.

Looks crazy, but ... it looks that we don't have the right to use even our temple name, outside here.
Maybe that is more important?
Maybe is more important to make this a recognized religion? ( some places/countries don't have a way to legalize a religion) and make release the "Jedi" word to be used freely.

What is the point to have a temple without our name?

I would like to interject on this point. You can't copyright a religion. Saying that the word Jedi is owned by any company is like saying that the Vatican own the rights to the word Christ. It doesn't work! Jediism, IS a recognised religion and therefore cannot be copyrighted or trade marked. (This is why you can set up a church anywhere and call yourself a Christian). If it were possible for you to legally own any part of the Christian religion, you could bet a pound to a penny that you would be paying royalties to the Vatican! That is a fact!

Its not copyrighting a religion...

Its trademarking a word....

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4803:4nh945.2.6

I've been informed that my link expired....

http://www.uspto.gov/trademarks/index.jsp

Trademark search "Jedi"..

You can't trade mark it either. The owner of the Trade Mark didn't argue against a religion set in it's name. That religion is now legally recognised, therefore the Trade Mark can't operate. If the owner of the Trade Mark had disputed the religion in it's name then they would have president to dispute the word Jedi. Seeing as the former didn't happen the owner would be disqualified from attempting the later.

I'm no lawyer, lol...

I was informed as long as we are not "for profit" we were left alone...

Those sites, zazzle and cafe press are "for profit" sites...

For more info, I'll defer to Br. John, lol....

Jestor wrote: I'm no lawyer, lol...

I was informed as long as we are not "for profit" we were left alone...

Those sites, zazzle and cafe press are "for profit" sites...

For more info, I'll defer to Br. John, lol....

I see where the contradiction lies. The religion being NFP is allowed to generate income but not so much that it would be deemed a for profit enterprise.

From what I read of the Trademark, basically we can't sell anything with the name "Jedi" on it. If we were to have a physical temple, it could use the name "in theory".

The Owl wrote:

Jestor wrote: I'm no lawyer, lol...

I was informed as long as we are not "for profit" we were left alone...

Those sites, zazzle and cafe press are "for profit" sites...

For more info, I'll defer to Br. John, lol....

I see where the contradiction lies. The religion being NFP is allowed to generate income but not so much that it would be deemed a for profit enterprise.

Not quite, a non-profit organization is a corporation like many others, except that it has no shares and no shareholders. It isn't publicly traded, but it is held accountable to the public (anyone can request an accounting of TOTJO's financial holdings). Board members, directors, and officers of a non-profit cannot receive compensation, but managers, administrative staff, and such are allowed to receive decent salaries. Basically, a non-profit is headed by a board of volunteers.

Source: legal dictionary