Carlos: Associate Pastor

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23 Dec 2017 12:54 #309422 by Rosalyn J
Good morning,

Ive been thinking about this for a while. I've been wanting to appoint Carlos as Associate Pastor since I have watched him work in Synod and with Outreach. I don't think there is anyone else I'd like as second in command

The charter states that we must give notice of an open position and I am happy to do so for ANY other position. But this one is too important to leave up to chance and vote. I'd prefer this be a matter of appointment. Carlos and I have discussed his duties and will continue to define them as time permits.

For the time being, Carlos will continue to function as head of Outreach, but will gain a new Title and Council.
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23 Dec 2017 13:21 #309428 by User22414
Replied by User22414 on topic Carlos: Associate Pastor
About bloody time you all saw the value of the Gem my Master is , good luck Master Carlos and i hope you will give ever favour to service over politics , in other words , just keep going the going and loving the loving and caring the caring , from now on ...forwards :cheer:

May the Force be with you Master Carlos , and the rest of the clergy , my Master has a set of princilpals and values that transcends most of yours , i hope you learn to value and handle them and learn from them. Go and get m Master !!!

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23 Dec 2017 14:46 #309434 by steamboat28

Rosalyn J wrote: The charter states that we must give notice of an open position and I am happy to do so for ANY other position. But this one is too important to leave up to chance and vote.


This is a dangerous line of thought and I wholly disagree with these grounds for decisionmaking. This was the wrong way to do what might be the right thing. I highly suggest, for the integrity of the Synod and the Clergy, that you find a way to make this right.
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23 Dec 2017 15:17 #309436 by Carlos.Martinez3
Thank you thank you thank u thank you - a million thank you s to all!
These days we live in can be filled with many things. Fear - anger- resentment - upset - hope- joy- worry - anxiety- wisdom - knowledge - wonder- amazement- and as our code states where we find these things and if we choose we can bring :love pardon faith hope light joy. This is my goal. That is my faith. I will never disrespect any ones faith- nope- I will encourage ! Here at the Temple we won't say no your not ... no your wrong - we say yes ! Yes you can yes it's possible yes you can too! Be weary of those who consistently oppose.
I'm a fan first , don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to sit by a fire or with a cup of tea and popcorn and share a good story any day. One for one any day!
I offer myself to all of those who need . My inbox is always open! In this Temple we are never alone. You as a Temld have many options .. . Add me to the continuing growing avalibility- right next to the contact clergy out reach team- the pastor - the IP team and all the other avalible willing and ready Knights n clergy here! So as alway and is my way- I bid you farewell with this , may the Force we seek and or serve find us ... that's right - all of us- in the seek - the path itself - may it find us there - right there.

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Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova
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23 Dec 2017 15:23 #309437 by Atticus
Replied by Atticus on topic Carlos: Associate Pastor

steamboat28 wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote: The charter states that we must give notice of an open position and I am happy to do so for ANY other position. But this one is too important to leave up to chance and vote.


This is a dangerous line of thought and I wholly disagree with these grounds for decisionmaking. This was the wrong way to do what might be the right thing. I highly suggest, for the integrity of the Synod and the Clergy, that you find a way to make this right.


The Charter calls this position Associate Pastor. Carlos was elected to this position under a slightly different name.
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23 Dec 2017 15:43 #309443 by Arisaig
Replied by Arisaig on topic Carlos: Associate Pastor

Atticus wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote: The charter states that we must give notice of an open position and I am happy to do so for ANY other position. But this one is too important to leave up to chance and vote.


This is a dangerous line of thought and I wholly disagree with these grounds for decisionmaking. This was the wrong way to do what might be the right thing. I highly suggest, for the integrity of the Synod and the Clergy, that you find a way to make this right.


The Charter calls this position Associate Pastor. Carlos was elected to this position under a slightly different name.


And what was that name? And if it's different, why was someone elected to a position under a different name?

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23 Dec 2017 15:55 #309445 by Atticus
Replied by Atticus on topic Carlos: Associate Pastor

Arisaig wrote:

Atticus wrote:

steamboat28 wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote: The charter states that we must give notice of an open position and I am happy to do so for ANY other position. But this one is too important to leave up to chance and vote.


This is a dangerous line of thought and I wholly disagree with these grounds for decisionmaking. This was the wrong way to do what might be the right thing. I highly suggest, for the integrity of the Synod and the Clergy, that you find a way to make this right.


The Charter calls this position Associate Pastor. Carlos was elected to this position under a slightly different name.


And what was that name? And if it's different, why was someone elected to a position under a different name?


I can answer that, but give me a few minutes to get to a real keyboard instead of this demon possessed Swype.
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23 Dec 2017 16:05 #309449 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic Carlos: Associate Pastor
The board of directors, also known as The Council, are the final say on anything and everything here. Clergy regulations are not even at the level of by-laws. The Clergy are here to serve The Order - it's not the other way around. Ros asked The Council if we would confirm her choice by direct election by the board of directors, and that's what happened.

It's unusual for a pastor not to have a say in who their vice or associate pastor is.

There is nothing to make right. The vote is not only a majority vote but also a super-majority two-thirds vote of The Council and The Advisors. That's enough to amend or revoke even a by-law, which this clergy regulation was not. There's no slippery slope here.

Founder of The Order
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23 Dec 2017 16:37 #309454 by Atticus
Replied by Atticus on topic Carlos: Associate Pastor
Br. John's covered the crucial part; the Council has always and likely will always select the Pastor and every other person who sits on the Council. (Knight Advisers are a different story, being liaisons or adjuncts rather than Council members.) But for a little historical context and to answer Arisaig's question:

Arisaig wrote:

Atticus wrote: The Charter calls this position Associate Pastor. Carlos was elected to this position under a slightly different name.


And what was that name? And if it's different, why was someone elected to a position under a different name?


The Charter has the Synod composed of the Pastor, Associate Pastor, Assistant Pastor for the Seminary, and the two Secretaries. During the past year, we have been working on comprehensive bylaws that would supplant the Charter; so far, only the clergy renaming section has gone through the approval process. Those bylaws would have done away with the Associate Pastor office and replaced it with an Assistant Pastor for Outreach, co-equal with the APS. We have conducted our elections since June along those lines, because we all believed the bylaws would have been done and ratified much sooner than has turned out to be the case.

What's happening now is that Ros needs backup, not only with her duties to the Clergy but the Council as well. When the discussion of bringing back the Associate Pastor (with Council access) was first broached in the Synod, Br. John wisely perceived that what was really happening was selecting a Council member, and so the Council and the Advisers took the action of naming an Associate Pastor.

I will absolutely advocate for holding a vote of the General Clergy to fill Carlos's former position of Assistant Pastor for Outreach as soon as possible.

I hope this helps to clarify what's happening, but please don't hesitate to ask if you have any remaining questions.
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