Grey Jedi Code Anyone?

Evil is a concept based on a dualistic approach to morality.
Love is an emotion, emotional response and at times an action which leads to compassion. When it has become compassion there must be an object of its attention. Without people around or other things, then the only thing it could be aimed at is the originator. This also occurs in the social agreement but normally when the individual has isolated themselves from the whole either physically, mentally or both.

Whether there are other things around to have a social agreement with, there will be emotions. Those come from within and are responses to our environment. Things like greed, lust, gluttony can not happen without the society to form the basis for comparison or the social agreements that we hold our standards to.

Some might say, then why don’t Jedi have a monastery in the middle of nowhere to study and learn at?
And I would reply, what good would that do us? There can be no virtue without temptation. No courage without fear. No real gain without the real chance of failure.

Wescli Wardest said;

"Evil is a concept based on a dualistic approach to morality.
Love is an emotion, emotional response and at times an action which leads to compassion. When it has become compassion there must be an object of its attention. Without people around or other things, then the only thing it could be aimed at is the originator. This also occurs in the social agreement but normally when the individual has isolated themselves from the whole either physically, mentally or both.

Whether there are other things around to have a social agreement with, there will be emotions. Those come from within and are responses to our environment. Things like greed, lust, gluttony can not happen without the society to form the basis for comparison or the social agreements that we hold our standards to.

Some might say, then why don’t Jedi have a monastery in the middle of nowhere to study and learn at?
And I would reply, what good would that do us? There can be no virtue without temptation. No courage without fear. No real gain without the real chance of failure.
"

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ok this is very cool analysis
i have questions please

1) "Whether there are other things around to have a social agreement with, there will be emotions. Those come from within..."

2) "Things like greed, lust, gluttony can not happen without the society to form the basis for comparison or the social agreements"

--

if "emotions" happen with or without the social agreement
such as love

but greed can only exist as response to the agreement
what is the distinction?

i have always thought greed and lust to be emotions
?
and have thought love to be an emotion
?
but one is impossible without the social agreement
while the other is impossible to avoid regardless of an agreement
or no agreement at all
?

does this suggest that some emotions are inherent to the human condition while some are not?

if so how then do we tell the difference?

or does it suggest that some of the things that we call emotions
are not *really emotions?

or am i missing possibilities with the syntax which you have presented?

Quote from franchise is very sound:

You will know [the good from the bad] when you are calm, at peace. Passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.

Through the Force good and bad can be known, when you distance yourself from human conceptions originating in monkey mind and go for intuition.

Let us be as concrete and eloquent as Yoda. j-D

Wescli Wardest wrote: Evil is a concept based on a dualistic approach to morality.

It would make sense my morality is pleasure :silly:

For me quite simply;

Compassion is the state where one understands and responds to the suffering of others with a motivate to help relieve that suffering.
&
Evil is the state where one understands and responds to the suffering of others with a motivation to manipulate an increase in that suffering.

From a biological perspective of pain and related concepts of 'health', therefore I view them as purely objective and not anchored in morality... but clearly capable of being held with a moral structure. Shared compassion for me, in a short time frame could be called 'joy' (to inanimate), lust (animate) or bliss (universal) and in a longer time frame called 'love', where the complexity of sharing something becomes deeper and more often confusing away from that initial joy. I don't like the word agreement because it seems to imply equal full understanding of conditions prior and during its course, which I doubt happens often unless the pre-nup is amazing
:lol:

does this suggest that some emotions are inherent to the human condition while some are not?

if so how then do we tell the difference?

or does it suggest that some of the things that we call emotions
are not *really emotions?

I think you get the idea pretty well. I think that emotion is a part of the human experience and human condition. I also believe we learn to accept certain conditions and experience as an emotion precept.

Meaning, if I were hungry and wanted something to eat then smelled a taco I would immediately want a taco. But if I smelled the taco and thought, ”Oh, I’m starving and I love tacos.” That would be what we had learned through our experiences and how we have learned to think and express ourselves. Do we actually “love” tacos? Highly doubtful. We may really enjoy them and like them but somehow I doubt we love them.

That is just an odd-ball example that came to mind and I have no idea if it makes the point any clearer.

How would we tell the difference? I started identifying the difference by logical deduction. I would think, “Oh, I’m starving and I love tacos!” And I thought… do I really love them? Am I really starving? And I took that same thought process and began examining everyday situations that I came across. I still do.

Helps keep me from being reactionary.

Definitely not if they come from Taco Casa

* I figured I had better add something before I get tacos thrown at me for derailing with random comments

The idea of the emotional precept is a valuable one when becoming more aware of the ways in which we use language and emotional/neuro conditioning to determine our experiences. Something we do have a great deal of control over.

If I said that I detest tacos, the level of emotional impact that I create through that language association does condition and reinforce that belief. If I down graded the response to Im not fond of tacos, the emotional connection is immediately lowered and doesn't create nearly as strong an association.

With tacos it doesn't seem important, but try saying every day "I cant stand the people I work with, I hate them"... guess what will happen.

I bet you guys go to the same Taco Casa I do... that's scary. (Taco Bueno is much better anyway...)

So, a lot of fake emotion is judgment. I personally follow a modality called Access Consciousness, and its main crux and argument is that judgment leads to limitation. Our emotions are certainly real, but there's a difference between emotions caused by the body (let's call them Basic Emotions) and emotions caused by the imagination (let's call them Mental Emotions). They can, of course, overlap.

If I am shaking with fear, I am feeling fear. But, I may also, at the same time, be imagining scenarios in my head that compound the fear, making it more scary than it needs to be.

The cure for this is meditation. If one meditates long enough to feel comfortable knowing when the brain is about to "invent"... then you can stop and say: "Hey, maybe I don't want my brain to invent this emotion..." Or, you could say: "Hey, it's fine that I'm going to invent this emotion. No judgment."

I'm sorry if this isn't completely on topic, I've only had time to read the last couple of posts.

this is fascinating conversation!
brenna I love language!
the way language is used to frame thought like youre talking about and how words are constructed as well.

yrs ago when I worked for Consumer Action in fla I was told things like never say "try" and speak as if its already agreed that theyll participate and always use UPtones when ending a sentence because it encourages people to respond positively

ive learned a lot since then and one thing I say a lot when this topic comes up is "always say yes" is preferable to "never say no"
its just a general idea of implying unity and success ineveryday language
like you were saying

Conner,

I find it very interesting thst now there are two different sources each implying In their own way that there are (at least) two kinds of feelings
like u say "fake emotion"
thats really what im hoping to look at here and where I was hoping to see the conversation touch upon so for my part you aren't off topic at all.

also I'm glad you used fear as one example
May I ask what Access Consciousness says about love?

Wescli Wardest wrote:

does this suggest that some emotions are inherent to the human condition while some are not?

if so how then do we tell the difference?

or does it suggest that some of the things that we call emotions
are not *really emotions?

I think you get the idea pretty well. I think that emotion is a part of the human experience and human condition. I also believe we learn to accept certain conditions and experience as an emotion precept.

Meaning, if I were hungry and wanted something to eat then smelled a taco I would immediately want a taco. But if I smelled the taco and thought, ”Oh, I’m starving and I love tacos.” That would be what we had learned through our experiences and how we have learned to think and express ourselves. Do we actually “love” tacos? Highly doubtful. We may really enjoy them and like them but somehow I doubt we love them.

That is just an odd-ball example that came to mind and I have no idea if it makes the point any clearer.

How would we tell the difference? I started identifying the difference by logical deduction. I would think, “Oh, I’m starving and I love tacos!” And I thought… do I really love them? Am I really starving? And I took that same thought process and began examining everyday situations that I came across. I still do.

Helps keep me from being reactionary.

ok I see the point there but what does it matter if I say "I love tacos"

I guess what I mean really is
does it really matter if we realize the difference between the different kinds of feelings? I mean theyre all part of our experience...
?
thank you for your responses so far

It says don't think too much about it.

Yes, fall in love. Have sex. Be happy. Be with people. Be with whomever pleases you (mutual pleasing is most beneficial! if you're a parasite, the relationship is unhealthy). Be with many people! Maybe at the same time?

Don't judge it. Do what is right for you. Stop thinking that social norms can define how you feel.

But, don't overthink it. The moment you do, you have left the intuitive process and entered a mental process... Love is not meant to be a problem to solve.

Access wouldn't OPENLY promote doing anything illegal, of course. But, it tries to stay out of "logical" thinking. So, you might get some odd love going on. 20 year olds dating 50 year olds. Boys dating trans. 3 people in a couple. The possibilities are endless in Access because there is no judgment.. only love.