Grey Jedi Code Anyone?

In the beginning there were Jedi and Siths. From Jedi, an off shoot happened and they are the Grey. The Jedi Code is one they can't fully be so they(Gray) have modified to create a new one while still maintaining Jedi status. They believe in balance and that the Darkness is acceptable as well as Light. They will say and do as required ignoring some teachings of Light Jedi. The means will justify the end in their ways. I feel Grey is similar to a game cheat sheet...responsibility to see and be the Light is diminished. The Gray Code absolves them of their actions and gives excuses and repercussions are out the window. Jedi (one word) strive and grow with the Light...all while respecting the Code. Not an easy task but true commitment is there to be the best human can be for self and others. Hope this helps

For me, each Jedi is a prism...

A series of lenses grind-ed by life's experiences which change how the light refracts...

There is only light or the no-light...

I personally found the code as written to be a little messy. When you look at the two main versions of the Jedi code:
Emotion, yet peace.
Ignorance, yet knowledge.
Passion, yet serenity.
Chaos, yet harmony.
Death, yet the Force.
and
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.
There is no passion, there is serenity.
There is no chaos, there is harmony.
There is no death, there is the Force.

Then you look at the Sith code:
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.

The Grey code presented has no rhythm to it.

I've actually been pondering and working on my own version for a while. It's meant to be used as a mantra or like the rosary as well.
Through Darkness I know Light,
Through Light I know Darkness,
Through this Understanding I gain Balance
Through Balance I gain Focus
Through Focus I gain Discipline
Through Discipline I gain Knowledge
Knowledge is Power
The Force shall free me

I think similarly to Cabur, in that we all have passions and urges, what makes anything dark is what we do with them. Understanding and moving past one's darkness, accepting one's self and moving past these things. For me, that is the way of a Jedi. The Jedi code, for me, is something that denies our human nature. I created the above Grey code as a way of acknowledging that nature and using it instead of suppressing it.

Two quotes that embody this line of thinking, one real world and the other fiction.

"Emotion can be the enemy. If you give in to your emotion, you lose yourself. You must be at one with your emotions because the body always follows the mind."
-Bruce Lee

"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you... not condemn you."
―Jolee Bindo

Alethea Thompson wrote: There is no Dark Side, nor a Light Side
There is Only the Force
I will do what I must to keep the balance
The balance is what keeps me together
There is no good without evil, but evil must not be allowed to flourish
There is passion, Yet peace
Serenity, Yet emotion
Chaos, Yet order
I am the wielder of the flame, the protector of balance
I am the holder of the torch, lighting the way
I am the keeper of the flame, soldier of balance
I am a guardian of balance
I am a Gray Jedi.

Hi everybody
pleaze forgive me just jump right in if I say what others already say.

First- if anyone feels that their "jedi code" denies their honest inner nature then i implore you and permit you to cast away that code. Life is bigger than any video game

So- If there is no dark and no light then how is it that there is good and evil and one is better than the other?

If there IS both how does someone expect to remain neutral?

Does this come from inner FEELINGS or from inner TALKINGS?
The jedi council of the future will be effective because much of the veracity of concepts will be verifiable by the direct experience of SEARCHING ONES FEELINGS.

The ego talks.
The mind makes a thousand descriptions for each of a million distinctions and an endless barrage of new shades of grey.
This is chaos. Every new descriptive shade is but a new way to arrange leaves in a hurricane.

the essence PERCIEVES.
the essence may be heard when the endless chatter of our inner talk- our inner hurricane- is subject to the discipline of silence.

Love is POWERFUL. One minute of LOVE is more enlightening than a lifetime of loveless chattering intellectualism.

In recognition and expression of genuine Love one can find the courage to LIVE ones life. To follow ones deepest and most passonate bliss and to create ones destiny without shame and without uncertainty. That is serenity.

The path of neutrality refuses both serenity and passion because it restrains one iinto inaction. To be neutral is to be irrelevant

A sword is a tool of war. It always was and always will be.
Its symbolic or ritual or cerimonial or yadda yadda yadda has no existence or merit without the understanding of its function and purpose as a tool of war.

A torch is a tool for enlightenment. It is meaningless without darkness. It would not exist.

If there is no dark and no light why does one need a torch and in defense of what does one carry a sword?

This is similar to the sermon where someone said "because you are neither hot nor cold i spew you from my mouth"

One is grey because one wishes to be neutral? That by walking the balance line in the exact center between the polarities that one may rise beyond the confines of either polarity?

Or does this greyness mean that one is sometimes tyrant and sometimes a hero?

sometimes sith and sometimes jedi?

Neither the sith nor the jedi path will allow this for long. Each will eventually force you to choose. I dont mean simply the INSTITUTIONS.
The PATHS THEMSELVES will Force you to choose.

There will be moments in your life where you will be faced with the opportunity to be a source of reconcilliation where there is resentment.

There will be moments where you will be thrust into the midst of a scene of abuse and tyranny. .

In both of these moments your action or non action will facillitate the perpetuation of either sith or jedi.
there is no grey to walk because there is no neutral without seperation and you cannot seperate from life while continuing to live, and life will surround you with tangible concrete instances of this duality

Or maybe i do not understand Grey?

There are a few things in your post that I want to comment on... I appreciate that this looks as though I am picking apart everything you say.. please do not take it personally, I am trying to show my opinion in comparison to yours.

OB1Shinobi wrote: So- If there is no dark and no light then how is it that there is good and evil and one is better than the other?

Good and evil are human constructs.. there is the phrase 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'... good and evil are subjective, not objective.

The jedi council of the future will be effective because much of the veracity of concepts will be verifiable by the direct experience of SEARCHING ONES FEELINGS.

I'm not sure how searching one's feelings can verify anything but one's own feelings... the reason there is a council is because you only have to look at some recent threads to realise we all have different opinions, but there needs to be some leadership otherwise nothing would ever be decided.

The path of neutrality refuses both serenity and passion because it restrains one iinto inaction. To be neutral is to be irrelevant.

I disagree, and the example I use to show that is the Red Cross. In war the red cross takes no side, but you could never say they are inactive or irrelevant.

If there is no dark and no light why does one need a torch and in defense of what does one carry a sword?

You are mixing up the fact there is light and the absence of it in the physical world, and light and dark as symbolic constructs. There are magical systems considered dark (and which are practiced by members of this forum, or were) but are nothing to do with subjectively bad or evil acts. Even in nature, shadow has shades.

One is grey because one wishes to be neutral? That by walking the balance line in the exact center between the polarities that one may rise beyond the confines of either polarity?

Or does this greyness mean that one is sometimes tyrant and sometimes a hero?

sometimes sith and sometimes jedi?

Neither the sith nor the jedi path will allow this for long. Each will eventually force you to choose. I dont mean simply the INSTITUTIONS.
The PATHS THEMSELVES will Force you to choose.

The paths we take are up to us.. I don't believe in extremes... even the tyrant may have compassion for his own family. Not every situation needs a tyrant or a hero... and sometimes the role taken is not all it seems. Have you ever played Fable 3? In the game you become king; you need to amass a lot of gold in order to save your people from some horrible event, but the city is half destroyed. You can spend the money you have to rebuild, and it makes you look great in front of the people, but you have to work a lot harder in the time you have to amass the gold again. Alternatively you can be mean, not rebuild, but by the time the event comes, you're more likely to have the gold you need. The downside is the people hate you, but they're more likely to all survive. Not every action's motive is obvious.

In both of these moments your action or non action will facillitate the perpetuation of either sith or jedi.
there is no grey to walk because there is no neutral without seperation and you cannot seperate from life while continuing to live, and life will surround you with tangible concrete instances of this duality

Or maybe i do not understand Grey?

There is no extreme... for as I said above even the tyrant can have compassion for his family.. there is grey because there is no immediate good and evil, there is often no obvious choice of action. We act based on our feelings and reasoning at the time, because we are human. A homeless person may ask you for food... one person might buy them a burger, someone else might buy them a whole week's worth of food.. both of these actions helped that person, but on the scale of good and bad, can you really say one is bad? There is no extreme light or extreme dark in my opinion.. there is just grey.

Edan wrote: There are a few things in your post that I want to comment on... I appreciate that this looks as though I am picking apart everything you say.. please do not take it personally, I am trying to show my opinion in comparison to yours.

OB1Shinobi wrote: So- If there is no dark and no light then how is it that there is good and evil and one is better than the other?

Good and evil are human constructs.. there is the phrase 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'... good and evil are subjective, not objective.

The jedi council of the future will be effective because much of the veracity of concepts will be verifiable by the direct experience of SEARCHING ONES FEELINGS.

I'm not sure how searching one's feelings can verify anything but one's own feelings... the reason there is a council is because you only have to look at some recent threads to realise we all have different opinions, but there needs to be some leadership otherwise nothing would ever be decided.

The path of neutrality refuses both serenity and passion because it restrains one iinto inaction. To be neutral is to be irrelevant.

I disagree, and the example I use to show that is the Red Cross. In war the red cross takes no side, but you could never say they are inactive or irrelevant.

If there is no dark and no light why does one need a torch and in defense of what does one carry a sword?

You are mixing up the fact there is light and the absence of it in the physical world, and light and dark as symbolic constructs. There are magical systems considered dark (and which are practiced by members of this forum, or were) but are nothing to do with subjectively bad or evil acts. Even in nature, shadow has shades.

One is grey because one wishes to be neutral? That by walking the balance line in the exact center between the polarities that one may rise beyond the confines of either polarity?

Or does this greyness mean that one is sometimes tyrant and sometimes a hero?

sometimes sith and sometimes jedi?

Neither the sith nor the jedi path will allow this for long. Each will eventually force you to choose. I dont mean simply the INSTITUTIONS.
The PATHS THEMSELVES will Force you to choose.

The paths we take are up to us.. I don't believe in extremes... even the tyrant may have compassion for his own family. Not every situation needs a tyrant or a hero... and sometimes the role taken is not all it seems. Have you ever played Fable 3? In the game you become king; you need to amass a lot of gold in order to save your people from some horrible event, but the city is half destroyed. You can spend the money you have to rebuild, and it makes you look great in front of the people, but you have to work a lot harder in the time you have to amass the gold again. Alternatively you can be mean, not rebuild, but by the time the event comes, you're more likely to have the gold you need. The downside is the people hate you, but they're more likely to all survive. Not every action's motive is obvious.

In both of these moments your action or non action will facillitate the perpetuation of either sith or jedi.
there is no grey to walk because there is no neutral without seperation and you cannot seperate from life while continuing to live, and life will surround you with tangible concrete instances of this duality

Or maybe i do not understand Grey?

There is no extreme... for as I said above even the tyrant can have compassion for his family.. there is grey because there is no immediate good and evil, there is often no obvious choice of action. We act based on our feelings and reasoning at the time, because we are human. A homeless person may ask you for food... one person might buy them a burger, someone else might buy them a whole week's worth of food.. both of these actions helped that person, but on the scale of good and bad, can you really say one is bad? There is no extreme light or extreme dark in my opinion.. there is just grey.

Hi again.
My words about good evil why is one better than other - those words were in response to t part of the code that says "but evil must not be allowed to flourish" just to be clear i was responding to that specific code not just freestyling my veiws on a jedi place in the world

A code which says "these two are equal but this one must not be allowed to flourish" is a code that defeats itself. That was the point.

Also there is a saying
"one who kills an oppressor so that they may have the freedom to determine their own destiny is a freedom fighter. One who kills uninvolved unsuspecting civilians in order to make a political statement and manipulate perception through mass fear, is a terrorist"


I understand that things must be regarded from a perspective as free as possible from shallow ego judgement.
Thats why i point out contradictory nature of gray code.

Some have suggested that the path to wisdom is really the path of self discovery. This is avery deep and wide spread tenant of human species.
Kingdom of heaven is within
Follow your heart/bliss
Let your conscience be your guide
Beilieve in yourself-

When you say "i dont know how searchingnyour feelings will lead you to anything but your feelings" i say yes thats exactly right. Thejjj path of jedi is deeply intuitive. In fact cultivation of honest acceptnce and acknowledgement and respect for ones feelings is the most commonly suggested route to understanding the Force. FEEL the force flowing through you? TALK the force flowing through you? See what i mean?

The red cross were not neutral. They chose life over death. They battled for healing over harming and for buildin over destroying.
Simplistically it could be said tgat they were the jedi and everyone else was sith, but that would be unfair. Still it does serve as a springboard of nthought. There really is no neutrality and thatbis my point. All activity is in contrast to inactivity. So to proclaim neutrality as ones spiritual mental emotional physical or psychical position is as powerful as to say good and evil are equal but one must not be allowed to flourish.

Let me offer you the understanding i use when i speak
Good and evjl are simplistic terms when viewed as moral judgements of an external world. Imnot talking about moral judgements s of an external world
Fear and anger are internal subjective experiences. We all feel them and we are no more or less evil or good than anyone else for having felt them.
Jedi fear and anger as do all, but difference here is that jedi may use adrenaline that comes nfrom fear in order to act in the face of fear but her decisions will not be influenced by her fear. She will act this way or that way regardless of fear because to act this way ornthat way is what he knows and he FEELS is correct. Sith will act in spite of fear only if their selfishness is vested in the result.

If jedi attack sand people it is with restraint and for a purpose that is removed from their personal feelings about the sand people.
A sith will feed anger into wrath and exterminate as many as possible because they have allowed their emotion to become their motivation. They selfishly vent their rage. They have the choice to accept theirnpain and their anger honestly without moral judgement but still control their actions so that they act in accord with higher principals. That would be jedi. And here is thebessential difference and here therenis no grey because it is not one incident that molds one into jedi or sith- it is habbitual selection of selfishness or restraint. Of love or of fear. Not moralistic judgements. Choices made in full knowledge of internal realities.

About the tyrant you mentioned- i do not know for sure - but my FEELINGS tell me that history will reveal either men or women that were essentially and generally decent people who were in difficult position or people that were overal selfish and self serving even towards their families. No doubt even the cruelest of dictators often have had a favorite bird or a even a giftedheir which others would say "he loved such and such" but the truth is that he loved the bird because he could imagine its feelings rather than learn its feelings and his heir was special because she furthered his own legacy.
Again i refer to their usual day to day behaviour - not the occasional "oh he killed forty thousand people in his fart chambers but he sure was nice to that butterfly maybe hes not so bad after all" exception to the rule as proving the rule invalid-

The paths we choose are up to us but the dillemas which these paths present are not. It is the habbitual nature of our choices which define us a this way o that. Both sith and jedi are too perceptive, self aware, and focused for the habbitual nature of their choices to be inconsistant or haphazard. Im talking about real life people, even if i use fictitious events to ilustrate. A man or woman whose life is disciplined whose ideals are clearly defined and whose intuition is intentionally cultivated and whose body and personality are regularly pushed to new limits will demonstrate a level of internal consistancy that is remarkable to their peers.

I want to respons also what you said aboutbsymbols. First you quoted me asking "if there is no light and no dark then why does one carry a torch and in defense of what does onencarry a sword?"

Darkness does not have to symbolize evil. It can simplynmean lack of understanding and so the torch is not here a symbol of good but of knowledge. But what is the sword for?
A sword again is an instrument of war. Nothing of its symbolic value is relevant without the underlying truth of its external function-that is how symbols work. Remember again at i was responding to this grey jedi code- the code itself says" i carry a sword and a torch"
Well why?
You may not believe in extremes but if it ever gets extremely dark you will definitely believe in torches.
Thats what torches are for. And they are powerful symbols because ofnthe extreme nature of the reason for their use.

I think the main part of this code is there being neither light or dark, only the force. That is actually something I wholeheartedly believe. As with the saying "life is neither fair or unfair, it is up to the people in it to behave fairly or not" it is up to force practicioners and believers to 'use' (and I use that lightly) the force in a good/bad manner (or light/dark).

It is ultimately our choice, and though we strive to live and work in the light we all realistically experience the dark at some point as we're only human. Therefore, we're all 'Grey Jedi', we just try to tip the balance in favour of light.

It also highlights to me the subjectivity of the concepts of right and wrong (which I won't explore here as I could end up preaching lol) but it's common that the right thing to do isn't always good or light. So we all have the capability to be light or dark and often traverse the path between the two.

The rest seems to be variations on the duality theme. Where both Jedi and Sith codes focus on one side or the other, the Grey Jedi code seems to be more realistic in that it acknowledges the existence of both sides and the need for them both to exist.

Ok so this is my underlying feeling about the "grey code"

I feel like its something an author made up to justify a plot twist in a story

Or that maybe it was done to set the foundation for later saying it was actually a ploy by a clever sith lord to distort jedi teaching and lead young jedi to the "dark side"

The relativity and subjectivity of good and evil are inherent wisdoms within the jedi path
at some point a jedi comes tl understand that there may be more to the situation than meets the eye and that judgement without labourous investigation is subject to error

Even with investigation judgement is never immune from the possibility of error.

The idea of "evil" begins to taks shape as being not ones personal judgement of someone elses actions,
but instead ones personal motives for choosing ones own actions

And this is where the admonitions to beware of fear and anger jealousy or arrogance become meaningful indicators of the path towards the "dark side"

not because it is an immediate and intractable allegience to evil if one acts in anger, but because our actions and motives have the potential of becoming patterns and habbits which we follow almost unconcsiously and so it is not one individual moment which cements us into the dark but the habbitual focus or emphasis on the emotions of fear rather than trust or rage rather than love.

The idea that our emotions can be transcended by denying their value is tantamount to saying that we can makenour cars move faster by taking our feet off of the pedals

We are beings of an emotional nature
i do not hold that jedi are unemotional
i maintain that we develop into men and women of great passion and depth of emotion
but that in this development we also come to understand that we are more than just our emotions and that we may allow our feelings to flow freely without allowing them to own our judgements
this is what it means to say
passion, yet serenity

My understanding of jedi is such that there is nothing in the gray code that is not accounted for in "traditional jedi wisdom"
(thats just frekkinfunny right there "traditional jedi wisdom yeah take ME seriously ha) but that by adding undue emphasis on the idea of equality between good and evil that one plants a seed of receptivity within oneself to a laxness of self review, or a tolerance beyond what it appropriate for the expression of fear or greed based impulses
(it is my current belife that all of the DARK impulses ultimately stem from UNHEALTHY fear and that unhealthy fear is the result of seperation from ones inner truth)

IMO.

1) 'Grey code' and 'ying yang' are about balance.
2) Balance can be either compassionate or indifferent with others.
3) Indifference towards others is lack of empathy.
4) Empathy is essential to any Jedi.
5) Acts made in balance and with compassion - that is how I'd define a truly Jedi deed.

Based on this list and as far as I understand this 'grey' things, I'd say that Grey Jedi are those who either did not yet develop empathy or had their compassion blocked.

As of sides of the Force, I'd compare Force to a river which itself is not good or evil, yet can be contaminated with man's ill will or used for good.
Good and Evil are of man, not of the Force. I define Force as a spirit element, spirit ocean. Ocean ain't bad, yet it brings tsunami and sharks. Ocean ain't good, yet it brings trade routes and beauty. Jedi are like skilled captains in this ocean, who can 'save the drowning ones' and 'restrain piracy'.

Edan wrote: Good and evil are human constructs.. there is the phrase 'one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'... good and evil are subjective, not objective.

I sense that there is objective good. Harmony with the way life naturally flows, how evolution progresses, how personality develops. But this Good is only known in perspective of history. Therefore one can only trust the Force, do his best and hope.