Thanksgiving Origins- Does it Matter?

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/15002

Next week is Thanksgiving in America. We celebrate a day that is either true to it's meaning, or it is based on falsehoods. Above is an article that talks about the history of Thanksgiving, where it speaks out against debunkers. It's an interesting read, if your up for it.

The question though, is how do we celebrate it today? We tend to make it into an event where everyone gathers around with family (whatever that definition is for everyone) and share with one another...like almost every other holiday that has lost it's "true" meaning. We built these holidays as a means of reminding us of what we have and what we can give back.

So my question is, does it matter whether or not Thanksgiving is built up on lies? Or any holiday for that matter? Shouldn't it be about the spirit the holiday was based on, rather than the real events and when or where they took place?

As we enter the holiday season, here's something to contemplate- Should I do something to make the holiday more about it's "spirit"? Or is it just another day for me to spend with everyone around me? Why or why not?

(both are great answers, just more of a "what is the type of value I place on the holidays"- I'll have my answer a little later. ^^)

I come from the UK, so I don't celebrate thanksgiving. However, every Christmas someone gets upset at the lack of 'christian spirit' at Christmas. I'm not Christian, so for me Christmas is about spending time with the family, and appreciating your friends. Call the season what you want, for me the result is the same. I would think perhaps that is similar to thanksgiving.. does it necessarily matter how you got the holiday, if you spend it doing something you think is worthwhile?

I don't celebrate Thanksgiving for two reasons: I don't feel okay commemorating the day the Native Americans were either A) the day the Europeans betrayed the Native Americans the day the Europeans decided the Native Americans were not good chattle but had access to valuable resources (depending on which encounter you consider the day commemorating). I also don't celebrate because I don't have those kinds of people in my immediate circle right now.

But to answer your question directly, yes, I think it does matter. I think we need to stop erasing the actual origins of Thanksgiving narrative. That said, I don't think it's a bad thing that we set aside a day to take stock of all the things we have to be grateful for. I think Thanksgiving can still exist while also recognizing that what the Europeans (for many of us, our ancestors) did to the Native Americans was an awful, disgusting thing to do people.

Jamie, you said that you are fine with celebrating Thanksgiving as long as the proper thought is put into the true origins of our history. Why then, if you know that history, do you still not celebrate it?

Jamie Stick wrote: I think Thanksgiving can still exist while also recognizing that what the Europeans (for many of us, our ancestors) did to the Native Americans was an awful, disgusting thing to do people.

So you want to partially strip a day now celebrated as a day of fellowship, family, and thankfulness, and bring to it a negativity of remembrance based on what someone's ancestors did? Isn't there already enough days in the year where there are negative bitter people who can dwell on the things that ails them? The world would be a lot better place if people would stop always focusing on the negative so much, and start focusing on the positive.

Edan wrote: I come from the UK, so I don't celebrate thanksgiving. However, every Christmas someone gets upset at the lack of 'christian spirit' at Christmas. I'm not Christian, so for me Christmas is about spending time with the family, and appreciating your friends. Call the season what you want, for me the result is the same. I would think perhaps that is similar to thanksgiving.. does it necessarily matter how you got the holiday, if you spend it doing something you think is worthwhile?

Don't worry. Christmas isn't Christian, either. It's a few different flavors of pagan with a saint thrown in to make it look nice.

As for Thanksgiving, I'm biased. I was born on it some decades ago, and it's rather endeared itself to me with the large amounts of delicious food and whatnot. That said, I think that there are two ways to look at a situation like this.

On the one hand, we should definitely know the truth. Many atrocities were committed agasint the native peoples here, far more than the amount required to call this traditional story into question. We have a right to know what went down, we have a responsibility to see that those negatives don't happen again, and we have the privilege of a "modern" mindset to see the difference in the two stories. We owe it to everyone to figure it out.

On the other, there is still much, much value in the Thanksgiving myth. Just because something isn't true doesn't make it True; the myth of the first peaceful Thanksgiving does a lot to show us that we can mend fences with our enemies, that we can share our table with people who are nothing like us, that we need to be thankful for diversity, and that we should never be ashamed to ask for help.

Did any of that happen at the first Thanksgiving? Probably not. But it doesn't matter, because that's what we associate with Thanksgiving, and in this case the myth has the capability to teach us more than the raw "true" facts do.

Connor L. wrote: Jamie, you said that you are fine with celebrating Thanksgiving as long as the proper thought is put into the true origins of our history. Why then, if you know that history, do you still not celebrate it?

For the second reason I listed, that I don't have the kind of people I'd celebrate such a holiday with in my immediate circle.

Revan Falton wrote:

Jamie Stick wrote: I think Thanksgiving can still exist while also recognizing that what the Europeans (for many of us, our ancestors) did to the Native Americans was an awful, disgusting thing to do people.

So you want to partially strip a day now celebrated as a day of fellowship, family, and thankfulness, and bring to it a negativity of remembrance based on what someone's ancestors did? Isn't there already enough days in the year where there are negative bitter people who can dwell on the things that ails them? The world would be a lot better place if people would stop always focusing on the negative so much, and start focusing on the positive.

I really don't think there will ever be enough days to solemnly remember the beginning of era in which European immigrants committed genocide of the Native Americans. Would you tell an European American to forget Pearl Harbor, 9/11; or tell a Jew to forget the Holocaust, the Russian pogroms?

I'm not asking people to cover their faces in ash and wear sackcloth while ripping out their beards. I'm simply asking that we tell the story how it actually happened. Let's not gloss over history just for the sake of a holiday. If we can't have a holiday of thankfulness while also being honest about our ancestors' mistakes, then we've got much bigger problem than a gloomy holiday.

Jamie Stick wrote:

Connor L. wrote: Jamie, you said that you are fine with celebrating Thanksgiving as long as the proper thought is put into the true origins of our history. Why then, if you know that history, do you still not celebrate it?

For the second reason I listed, that I don't have the kind of people I'd celebrate such a holiday with in my immediate circle.

Revan Falton wrote:

Jamie Stick wrote: I think Thanksgiving can still exist while also recognizing that what the Europeans (for many of us, our ancestors) did to the Native Americans was an awful, disgusting thing to do people.

So you want to partially strip a day now celebrated as a day of fellowship, family, and thankfulness, and bring to it a negativity of remembrance based on what someone's ancestors did? Isn't there already enough days in the year where there are negative bitter people who can dwell on the things that ails them? The world would be a lot better place if people would stop always focusing on the negative so much, and start focusing on the positive.

I really don't think there will ever be enough days to solemnly remember the beginning of era in which European immigrants committed genocide of the Native Americans. Would you tell an European American to forget Pearl Harbor, 9/11; or tell a Jew to forget the Holocaust, the Russian pogroms?

I'm not asking people to cover their faces in ash and wear sackcloth while ripping out their beards. I'm simply asking that we tell the story how it actually happened. Let's not gloss over history just for the sake of a holiday. If we can't have a holiday of thankfulness while also being honest about our ancestors' mistakes, then we've got much bigger problem than a gloomy holiday.

And do you not think those people do not think about it every single day, 24/7? I am sure they think of it do much they want to NOT think of it.

Revan Falton wrote: And do you not think those people do not think about it every single day, 24/7? I am sure they think of it do much they want to NOT think of it.

No, we do not, otherwise we'd be honoring all the treaties we signed with the Native Americans. The full extent of the Native American genocide is not even taught in most schools. Usually it's articulated with Custard's Last Stand, the Trail of Tears, and maybe one or two treaties that were signed (and later broken or ignored by European Americans). There are so many aspects of the Native American v. European American history that isn't even addressed or known by the collective consciousness of European Americans.

Jamie Stick wrote: Let's not gloss over history just for the sake of a holiday. If we can't have a holiday of thankfulness while also being honest about our ancestors' mistakes, then we've got much bigger problem than a gloomy holiday.

We have 364 other days of the year to teach others and ourselves about the harm past generations caused one another, but neither one of us lives in those generations; we merely live in the world they shaped.

Jamie Stick wrote: The full extent of the Native American genocide is not even taught in most schools.

Another thing that's missing from most books are common stories--from European decendents and Native ones--is the idea that indigenous peoples of this country were every bit as violent and harmful to one another as their European counterparts were when they started settling here. We have this lovely image now, this stereotypical "noble savage" nonsense clouding our minds. We're used to either Apache killers or Tonto, trusted friend and confidant of the Lone Ranger. We see those two stereotypes, and shut our minds to the possibility that there was plenty of cultural genocide before Europeans ever set foot here. The reason the conflict between "white" and "red" is so well-preached is that it is oversimiplified, racially-charged, and easier to document.