Jedi Pyramid

MindasArran wrote: Where, or upon whom, is she enforcing these standards on? You're absolutely correct, at this point, she cannot complete these tasks. You say that she isn't working on it, but you don't live with her, so truely, you have no idea what she is doing. As of right now, she could do a 3 mile run if I ran it with her. Are you going to denegrate her for having a goal for her path? Something that goes beyond, read and write posts?

With you? Look, Mindas, dear- couldn't you at least give her the credit that she can do it on her own, without you? Many of them didn't believe she was doing anything to achieve her own standards- if she is now- again MORE POWER TO HER.

Can "lay me out"? Which has what to do with the matter at hand? Now you're just appealing to (or attacking) my ego and engaging in nonsense. hahaha Writing checks for someone else to cash, as it were. Still, I love to fight. I will gong sau with anyone.

It has everything to do with what I'm talking about. These standards are probably well below your own, correct? So someone that doesn't follow Kit's training regime, and probably doesn't do nearly as much as you do shouldn't be able to take you out- am I wrong? But that there is someone out there which does less training than Kit's training program can put you on the floor should say something about how they focus their training to the practical of what they need instead of what they need to be doing.

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You got me.... yes, a firefighter will save more lives than someone attempting training in imaginary powers. That's your argument against having standards? I find it hard to take your argument seriously when you're comparing training to learning pyrokenisis. Can we keep the makebelieve in Marvel Comics and discuss things in the really real? [/quote]

I don't believe anyone can achieve anything with Pyrokinesis of any real value. So we'll go this route: If all you are doing is training for something that you never do *cough*Military Supply Routes*cough* but you never get around to actually doing *cough*Military Supply Routes*cough* because you're actually scheduled to do *cough*Detainee Operations*cough* what good is your training? Training is only as good as what you use. Keeping your fitness in check is one thing, training constantly so that you can take away time from actually accomplishing anything is worthless.

A person who sees no value in knowing first aid is an idiot. That's all I have to say about that.

Personally I agree, but I also understand why people would not feel the need. It's for the same reason people tend not to believe they need a security system in their home until they get robbed.

You say it's her fight, but she got banned here for whatever reason (I didn't ask), so she can't speak for herself.

So I've been told as of today.

At any rate my issue is not so much that you disagree with her standards, but that you're talking about her behind her back (since you're not just talking about her standards, but also upon her character and inability to perform them) which is pretty fucking shitty.

And yet that is exactly how people look at it- how can you possibly expect others to meet the standards if you don't meet them? It means everything to the standards you impose upon others.

Let me know when whoever it is wants to come kick my ass.

Read the words properly, Mindas, I said they could- not that they wanted, or were going or would want, to. I'm speaking to capabilities.

But since we're on that- do you believe that a Jedi should train to beat someone that is better than them just because as a Jedi it means they are incapable of defeating that one person?

Training should serve a purpose beyond "what if" scenarios.

Surgeons go to school and train for the purpose of performing surgery.

Police officers learn there skills for the purpose of policing

If Jedi are training just because someday, something, somewhere may happen when they are needed, then there really is no purpose, and how motivational, or committed should one be to a path without purpose?

As such, what is being a Jedi beyond training? Also, why are not all Jedi finding methods of employment, or purpose to facilitate this excellence is so many areas?

It seems a Jedi is to be a Navy Seal without the authority, or mission.

Except I have yet to see any Jedi fit that bill.

Many of them didn't believe she was doing anything to achieve her own standards...

Many of them? Gossip behind someone's back a Jedi behavior now? And I don't know if she could run it by herself or not. I only know that physically, she could do it. Beyond that, I don't know. I'm not going to lie and pass speculation off as fact.

But that there is someone out there which does less training than Kit's training program can put you on the floor should say something about how they focus their training to the practical of what they need instead of what they need to be doing.

I can tell you right now that training is what determines who wins fights. Not theory, not philosophy, but blood, sweat and tears. Don't send someone out if they aren't bringing their A-Game and done more training then I have. Dream up whatever scenario you like. Facts are facts -- there's only one way to find such things out.

Keeping your fitness in check is one thing, training constantly so that you can take away time from actually accomplishing anything is worthless.

Again with this idea that you'd have to train constantly to do a three mile run....

Read the words properly, Mindas, I said they could- not that they wanted, or were going or would want, to. I'm speaking to capabilities.

You're guessing, and honestly, as much as you're talking this person up I'd really like to meet them.

But since we're on that- do you believe that a Jedi should train to beat someone that is better than them just because as a Jedi it means they are incapable of defeating that one person?

I'm sorry, I have no idea what you're asking. Why would being a jedi make someone incapable of beating another person? There's always a sky above a sky and even a sky beyond that one. Anyone, regardless of path, should endeavor to reach it.

Alright I see how that last question got worded in an incoherent manner. Let me try again:

Do you feel that a Jedi needs to be able to defeat all of their enemies, and as such should train to do so when they find the "bigger fish"? Or could it be that in order to be a Jedi, it would mean that they can measure their level against bigger fish, but be more concerned with helping the world around them than improving their ability to take on the next level?

That said, Mindas, I appreciate your willingness to come in here and defend Kitsu, but she needs to defend herself. I get the dynamics between you two- but really this isn't your fight, it's hers.

Considering I was banned/blocked from TOTJO for speaking up for my beliefs two years ago. That would be kind of hard to do. Defend myself. Unless you would rather I use an IP scrambler and come in here under a different name? That would be rather disrespectful to the admin decision of this community though, now...wouldn't it.

Her Fight? This shouldn't even be a fight. This shouldn't have even been brought up. That is like punching someone in the face randomly and then putting your hands up saying “What? Can't defend yourself? Stand up wuss.”

Weather of not you knew about my ban or not is irrelevant. The POINT is that this should have never reached the table in the first place. You want to use examples? You want to justify your ideals by downing someone elses? Fine. But leave me and my ideals out of it. This is where you are supposed to generalize and make up your own outlandish examples that is not connected to anyone that is real. Not hurt someone else in the process. You don't agree with what I believe? Fine. I don't care. But do not slander ME in public for it.

You come in here. A place where I cannot defend myself. You mock my name, you mock my ideals, you misrepresent them with poor examples and elaborate terminology to make them look even more “out there” and then stand back and say your ideas are better and how dare that kitsu for hiding behind her husband instead of “defending herself”

And yet you preach the way of the Jedi and put yourself on a pedastool.

Disappointing.

Rude.

Disrespectful.

I can't even begin to explain how hurt I am to see this here.

Let me tell you what some of those very people said-people which know Kit PERSONALLY: A number of them pointed out that in order for your wife to enforce such, she would have to be able to accomplish it. Many of those same people pointed out that not only is she not capable of doing these things at the moment, but they have not seen her work towards these very goals.

These people you speak of have had the pleasure (or miss pleasure if that is their view) of knowing me for years. They have seen me in person and real life once or twice yearly. But they do not live my life. They do not hover over my shoulder and know what it is I do on a daily basis. They do not know what I train for and study. Why? Because unlike most of you. I do not sit and record every point of my life on the interwebs and/or blogging.

The standards I SUGGESTED on a “Standard Suggestion Forum” were all things that I researched, studied, and considered with deep thought before presenting the idea to the public for debate, consideration, re-working and improvement. Please note where I say “Suggested” and “Ideas” on a “Suggestion and Idea forum” based on standards.

Not once have I tried to enforce and impose these standards on anyone. I have however said multiple times that my ideas were “In the works” and required application and testing for improvement and adaption. “Enforcing” and “Imposing” something requires me to go to people and saying “You have no choice but to do these or else.” No where have I done such and always have my standard Ideas been “In progress” and “In creation.”

Oh wait....much like you and your ideas. hm...

You sit here and make me look like a fool. You point your finger at me and say I am “Outlandish” a “Flop” “Impractical” “Expansive” “Ridiculous” …....I mean seriously? All of that was necessary? I have not once ever spoke ill of you in public. What have I done to earn such negativity from you? Why do you feel you need to downgrade someone to make a point?

The standards? I. DO. NOT. CARE. Don't like it? Don't do it. Simple really. Don't do them. I am not your parent. I am not your teacher. I am not your Master. I am not even the Grand Master. I am just a splotch of ink on your computer screen and not once have I said otherwise. DONT DO THEM.

But Do NOT...I mean seriously...DO. NOT. Slander my character in public and continue to justify it with things you do not know. I CAN Run 3 miles. I AM working towards my certifications in ALL fields. And I AM training physically. I have not ever put forth an opinion without being sure I myself can do it. Why am I not certified already? Because for three years my priorities were in being a mother to my two daughters of 2 years and 3. They are much more important to me than standards that are not even real or in effect because they were Suggestions. Not mandatory.

I feel you have disrespected me. And I can't even begin to explain how upset and hurt I feel right now. I was banned from this place two years ago and I have respected that decision only to come back to find out people were talking bad about me behind my back. Not Cool. So not cool.

I have always respected you, despite my disagreements of your style in things. All I ask is the same in return.

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To the Admins. I apologize deeply for all of this. *Bows* Please forgive the trouble I have inadvertently and apparently caused.

~Bows.

Alethea Thompson wrote: Do you feel that a Jedi needs to be able to defeat all of their enemies, and as such should train to do so when they find the "bigger fish"? Or could it be that in order to be a Jedi, it would mean that they can measure their level against bigger fish, but be more concerned with helping the world around them than improving their ability to take on the next level?

I've never seen the Jedi as an altruistic order. More of a pontificating mercenary group employed by the republic. How that translates to real life -- not entirely sure. I think that personal evolution can be balanced with social philanthropy if you choose to do so. I will say that ideals and ethics are only as good as your ability to enforce them.

HEY! Cool, good to have you in here.

Here's what you don't realize, Kit- a lot of people saw your posts, thought them ridiculous- and when people tried to reason with you, you wouldn't budge. That got others to stick to their own guns- and it caused the entire project at Force Realists to fall down. It wasn't just you, but you did start the chain reaction that was me, you, Charles and a few others back-and-forth tug-of-war. When you stick by what you want and don't budge, it doesn't help the group move forward to talk. The post I had came at a point where I had to explain why I wasn't going to try the method I used prior with standardization with this particular project.

If Jax had posted her thoughts publicly on how she defines knights and masters, I most likely would have used her points instead. Because her standards are far more difficult to achieve. But she doesn't have them presented in a public venue. You did, and said it before a number of people which were from various boards.

I'm not going to hide what I think of the standards which you outlined on that board. I told you what I thought of them when it first kicked off. Just the same, you are going to tell me what you think of mine or anyone else's on the various boards. I do that all the time, I even allow my frustration with some of what is said to get the best of me. It happens, I move on, they move on- after a few days of arguing back and forth. It even happened in THIS THREAD in the beginning. In fact, that entire post you saw, was me getting frustrated that some members were simply outright going to not work with me to help form this project.

It wasn't to make me look better- I kind of thought it would end up failing to make the point. But after the post, I'll note that a number of people started asking the right questions and making a number comments that led to the final product. Some of what I posted, well I know I could have done better, I at one point in time considered renigging some of that post- but I don't hide what I write from people about them- if it has been up for more than an hour.



Suggested:


That's not how you presented it though. The way you presented your approach was "these are non-negotiable because...". That is exactly how I saw it, and that is how a number of other people saw it, because you weren't willing to budge, and you didn't present good reasons to support your case. When I kept going at you to get you to come up with more viable reasons, I'm sure you felt attacked. That wasn't the intent back then- and that might have been why (after talking with a few people today) you kept pushing in a direction that people perceived it as you wanting to see those standards as THE community standard. That's eventually why I told you "there is nothing stating your order can't go above and beyond what is outlined in this group", at the time I felt you were negating further communication with others on the topic of physical fitness. It's how you presented it, it's how you kept going and didn't (appear to) give any thought to what other people had to say that led myself and others to believe that you put a "this is non-negotiable" stamp on it.

Alethea Thompson wrote:
A Jedi's mission is to support their community through service. A Jedi is also charged with acting when they witness dangerous situations in an objective manner. Furthermore, it is important that a Jedi acts when they recognize someone in need of help, whether that is through direct action or indirect action as per the situation.

As the person which suggested the change points out, a Jedi should be able to step out of their comfort zone when they recognize some serious issues with someone. Such as, if you happen to recognize that someone is having emotional problems- talking with them or getting them the help they need by going to someone that can help them is our responsibility. It doesn't necessarily require you to become overly social, it simply means that you will act. Not all situations which require action are going to be dangerous.

It was also brought up that the plant, animal or otherwise was too confusing, and could lead to someone thinking they had a mandate to let weeds overrun a garden. By eliminating this in the document it allows for the interpretation to become far more balanced (or at least as balanced as possible, I am well aware there is no such thing as "Iron-Clad" in text, lol).

Hi Alethea,

It is a good code. The warrior code. I see Martial arts in it and much more.

Some of your mission statement are weak in my opinion because it leaves out everything about nature.

I get it, I'm no fool. The Jedi are mostly about individuality. They are protectors of the peace. Warriors ready to fight for the weak. To protect the frail human being in an old age home. Protect them from abuse and make sure all their needs are met. They will fight for human rights to the end.

I like and even love that idea. What about the Earth? What about Global Warming. Our pets. Our trees that have the hard jobs of providing us oxygen. Is that nothing?

It should also be the Jedi mission to stand up for the earth. Its ecosystem. To protect it from threats even though these very threats are human threats. I've read enough Star Wars books to know they were always saving a planet!

Let the Jedi save ours. Green peace with a twist.

A humble opinion beneath the sacred oaks,

Jayden

...
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....I would also ask the leadership to review the reason that Kit was removed, and make a case that she be reinstated. Hannigan and Sammy were given another chance, I think Kit should also be given another chance.

And no, that isn't me trying to get on her good side, but if others are given another chance here, I feel she should be as well (after a review).

I should post the final product

THE JEDI COMPASS

The Ineffable

The Force- “The Force” is a loosely adapted term to explain something which all cultures agree exist, but disagree on exactly what it is. As such, a Jedi dedicates themselves to the understanding of all things within and through “the Force”. As a rule, no Jedi can set down in law a concrete definition of “the Force” for all to follow, only for themselves.

Core Ethics

Loyalty to the Jedi Code- This has a few different variants depending on what order a Jedi attends. A Jedi is bound by the code. By maintaining your loyalty to the code, you are able to keep your actions in check through the moral integrity of the Jedi Path outlined in the Jedi Code. It is important that a Jedi checks their own version of the code against the original spirit of the codes (Jedi Code and Skywalker Code) before they adopt it.

Duty to the All- A Jedi's mission is to support their community through service. A Jedi is charged with acting, objectively, when they recognize a situation where someone needs help. Jedi put their lives above the lives of others, even when facing danger, but know that they can help through direct action or indirect action as per the situation.

Respect the Law- A Jedi knows enough of the law to operate within it. Jedi should respect, and do their best to live by, the laws of the land they are living in. However, these are man's law, and like man, subject to flaws. A Jedi must act for the best interest of mankind as he/she sees the situation.

Defense- A Jedi understands that defense is not purely physical, but that there are many ways to defend a person or property. As such, it is important to understand that Jedi are not vigilantes. If, however, they are in a position where they are called to defend themselves or someone else against loss of life, limb or eyesight, they are allowed to apply the appropriate amount of force necessary for defense.

Action- A Jedi recognizes that there are times when getting involved with a situation is against the will of the person they are seeking to assist, or that helping them may be more detrimental in the long run. As such, a Jedi seeks inner wisdom to determine when to act and when not to act.

Self Awareness

Interior- A Jedi works to become aware of their emotions and things which make them “tick”. They learn of their flaws and strengths, seeking to reconcile a life with those flaws which they cannot change and the strengths they have been blessed with. In this a Jedi must be constantly looking inward for their motivations, their directions, what moves them, and why they allow it to do so.

Exterior- It is important that a Jedi be aware of the person they present to those around them, and how that will affect the dynamic of the groups they find themselves in. How one's presence is received will determine whether or not the next steps will be met with hostility or acceptance.

Virtues

Tolerance- You do not need to agree with someone's religion, their nationality, their career choice, their dress or anything else for that matter. Tolerance is not about agreement, it is about showing respect for the freedom of a persons choices and to respect their choices, until it reaches a point in which a reasonable person would consider the individual's actions as a/an (emotionally, spiritually, financially, and/or physically) abusive threat to you or another person.

Responsibility- Responsibility is at the heart of learning to overcome our flaws. A Jedi should be held responsible for all of their actions. Without it, we cannot grow, we cannot help others and we cannot justify why we are to be taken seriously.

Discipline- In order to walk the Jedi Path, you need to live by your training and by the philosophy. It is your responsibility to continue your growth throughout the rest of your life. Even while you are training with a mentor or taking a course at an order, it is discipline that will get you through to your knighthood and beyond.

Fortitude- Fortitude is the emotional strength and conviction to press forward in any given situation which poses an internal or external adversity. Developing fortitude allows a Jedi to show that they are not willing to give up until they have drawn their last breath.

Integrity- A Jedi seeks to maintain their integrity to the Jedi Code at all times. A Jedi should hold themselves to a high standard knowing that what they do when no one is looking is just as important as what they do when people are looking.

Objectivity- A Jedi trains themselves to gain as much relevant information as possible before drawing their conclusions. Once the facts have been gathered, they approach the problem with as little cultural and emotional bias as possible so that they are able to develop a decision on their next action.

Wisdom- A Jedi seeks to become wiser than the day before, this means developing the ability to separate truth from illusion, which is done by their ability to communicate with the spiritual aspects of the Force. Thus their path becomes clear and that clarity can be used to help others find their way.

Overcome

Aggression- To build on the Jedi Virtues, a Jedi must keep themselves open to the world. Through the misuse of aggression, they miss out on opportunities to further their cause. This does not preclude being assertive. A Jedi needs to learn to find the most effective means of resolving a conflict through the least bit of hostility possible.

Recklessness- A Jedi does not take unnecessary risks, knowing that their life is important to the Jedi Mission of bettering the world around them. In overcoming recklessness, a Jedi acknowledges and is mindful of how small the impact is perceived to have on themselves or others.

Attachments- Overcoming your attachments is not about getting rid of all your possessions or even denouncing your family, instead this is about forward movement. In overcoming your attachments, you are acknowledging what value these things have to you, and you recognize that there comes a time when you should no longer fight for your attachments, and you must let go. For a Jedi overcoming attachments can extend to bad habits, unhealthy obsessions, and connections to people that make us less who we have chosen to be.

Prowess

Defense Art- A “Defense Art” is not necessarily physical in nature, it can be through speech, writing, diplomacy, art or a number of other options which lead to an active method of curing the world of oppression. Like many of the other disciplines, you may find that your Defense Art is the same as another art (Physical, Scholarly, or Spiritual).

Physical Art- A Jedi should seek a physical art within their capabilities which keeps them them in shape and focuses on maintaining discipline of their body. Part of the physical art, which can be observed by all Jedi regardless of their mobility, is health. A Jedi should eat right, and maintain their health to the best of their ability.

Scholarly Art- A Jedi should seek out knowledge which provides benefit to them and the people around them. The search for knowledge is fundamental to Jedi as one never stops learning, seeking knowledge or bettering their skills.

Spiritual Art- A spiritual art may be as simple as developing meditation, but can go far beyond this. A Jedi may choose to develop a spiritual art aimed at connecting them with “the Force” through healing,