Drone Operators with PTSD

let me preface my comments by saying that I have never been in combat, and do not presume to speak in a manner of such.

I did, however spend several years in the Army guarding maximum security prisoners at Fort Leavenworth. In that time I was a participant in several altercations which could have easily become life-threatening. When I left the Army it took many years for me to be able to sit with my back to the door, or allow someone to stand behind me in a line, and luckily, the Spidey-senses are still there, and I can see trouble coming from a mile away.

What we were taught, and what makes the most sense to me about what goes on inside the mind of someone with PTSD is the progression of threat. We had a color-coded threat progression chart that went from green-yellow-orange-red-black. In my case, we spent our entire day at threat level orange/red, which built up those spidey-senses, but for those in combat, they spend their entire tour in threat level red at the minimum, and way too much time at threat level black. To be able to survive at that level, the human body rewires itself so that becomes the new normal. The problem arises when they come home, and see the normal threat level green, day-to-day stuff, as threat level black because that's what is the new normal for them. Just as there was a shock to the system when going from a constant level green life, to a constant level red/black life; there is a huge shock to the system.

Try to envision a time when you had a huge adrenaline rush; a close call or near miss. Now try to imagine feeling like that for 24/7/365, and then it suddenly stops. That's what returning vets are dealing with now.

I have been to war and i have been diagnosed with PTSD.Please remember that it is a mental thing. Most Soldiers Airman Sailors are fully trained on their equipment but not how to handle the stress of war. No one really is. I have the Grace to have th FORCE in my life and a GREAT family to back me up. Not to many people can say that. The level and severity of PTSD is mostly based on what is on the inside of the person not on their training or on their combat experience but how they react to it. ex.. I had the privilege to work in a hospital during a few of my war days... a rocket struck a building near a open soccer field...football for the rest of the world. Turned into a disaster area. we called it a mass cal...massive casualty scenario...long story short one sgt in particular... saw me carrying a child in my arms to safety.... she could not get that sense from her mind and had to be hospitalized in the states. the action is not the case, its what the person sees and how they react to it.hope this helps more JEDI open their mind. pm me any time CARLOS

Ren you have no proof to back up your claims except what other people from foreign country's claim. Have you personally been over there and have SEEN it for yourself? If not, you have nothing left to say. I have personally be over there, as I'm sure there are other Jedi here who have been deployed as well. I can promise you, every measure is taken when we engage hostiles. As E-3 says, its a painful reality in war, that innocents may sometimes die, or be caught in a cross fire. It is something we do not take lightly. However, I have personally seen MANY cases of where they use civilians as human shield. Just like what HAMAS is doing in GAZA. As to your comments about the war causing many Muslims to go radical, well if all it takes is for a country to defend its self from radical Islamic attacks, to become radicalized, they were already in the process to begin with.

Disclaimer: I apologize if this is considered thread derailment, but I could not let claims with no validation or truth to be spoken of this caliber.

So what are you guys saying? Are you denying civilian casualties or not? Because I have a hard time finding out which claim you believe to be invalid, as the only one I made is that UAV pilots responsible for civilian deaths in pakistan probably find it very traumatic.

ren wrote:

Ren you have no proof to back up your claims except what other people from foreign country's claim. Have you personally been over there and have SEEN it for yourself? If not, you have nothing left to say. I have personally be over there, as I'm sure there are other Jedi here who have been deployed as well. I can promise you, every measure is taken when we engage hostiles. As E-3 says, its a painful reality in war, that innocents may sometimes die, or be caught in a cross fire. It is something we do not take lightly. However, I have personally seen MANY cases of where they use civilians as human shield. Just like what HAMAS is doing in GAZA. As to your comments about the war causing many Muslims to go radical, well if all it takes is for a country to defend its self from radical Islamic attacks, to become radicalized, they were already in the process to begin with.

Disclaimer: I apologize if this is considered thread derailment, but I could not let claims with no validation or truth to be spoken of this caliber.

So what are you guys saying? Are you denying civilian casualties or not? Because I have a hard time finding out which claim you believe to be invalid, as the only one I made is that UAV pilots responsible for civilian deaths in pakistan probably find it very traumatic.

Obviously you did not fully read my posting. I said it was an unavoidable thing in war. It does happen, however not in the extremes you claim. Most of the cases you are referring to however are of the use of human shields by terrorists. Yes, might there be accidental crossfire between terrorists and the military involving civilians. Yes however those are few and far between. Again, you have never served in a war zone. You do not know what goes on. If you have no accurate information on a subject then do not post a belief stated as fact. That is ignorance at its finest.

Obviously you did not fully read my posting. I said it was an unavoidable thing in war. It does happen, however not in the extremes you claim.

What are those extremes I claimed? Please quote.


(added a "thank you" for the lols as you have absolutely no idea who I am or what I have done, making your posts look absolutely hilarious)

For someone to be called a civilian they have to be non-combatants I think? I doubt the CIA or DOD has any interest in killing civilians. So if the Taliban or Hamas want to use human shields or fire rockets from hospitals, then it say's to me they are murdering their own people for a propaganda war.

Mistakes and abuses do happen though, and I support people being held to account if they abuse their powers or do not perform with due care etc, and I that goes to commanders/staff in employment of weapon systems too. The West does/should try to act lawfully at all times.

ren wrote: Adder I know pakis who live in the UK and have family in pakistan. The drone attacks CAUSED people to join insurgent forces and a severe increase anti-american sentiment. Just like the lack of action against israel is causing many muslims to become radicalized. And here I'm talking about people i personally know.

That is the half the reason these types of groups engage in violence, because they have penetration into large pools of marginalised peopled living in relatively low wealth areas who can be recruited on emotion and the cheap. They use them either way, as reservoirs for a slow feed draw in a long war if the West plays it too tight, or to incite hatred and feed them in fast as intensity increases if the West might push to try and end it early.

None of it would be happening if they didn't fight to begin with. Fundamentally you either agree with one sides definition of victory, or the other, the rest is just playing monkey on a few tree's despite the forest. I tried to make up a proverb there, but I dont think makes much sense LOL~~

ren wrote: Also the nation-state is a fairly recent invention. It doesn't work all that well everywhere, especially for young countries with old communities like pakistan. It is not surprising that many places don't have very good intra-border control. Americans and australians forget that they come from brand new countries. Absolutely everything is baggage-free.

I think its a byproduct of increases in technology and populations, which means it could be an inevitable trial these nations need to take. I don't think its a Western Empire, but just that Western nations learnt the requisite values faster by virtue of being at the front of those formative agents to change/growth/development.

ren wrote: You go to europe, take a tiny country like belgium for example, and look: it's split in two communities which basically can't stand each other. Lots of regions want independence.... There are some in france, in spain, in italy, etc... And there aren't even any deep religious or cultural differences!

It's rather bizarre people often cannot move beyond 'identity'. They should build a bridge and get over it, lifes too short to spend it worrying about what country is listed on your passport. Choosing violence needs more then 'any reason' for me to justify it, else it might as well descend into madness because every mug can delude themselves into justifying their own hardship as worse then anyone elses.

Some foundation of human rights needs to exist, and it does... so that is a good place to start - but it needs to be applied fairly and appropriately to the full picture and not some biased snapshot of circumstance to reflect either sides bias - unless using the big picture is a bias of its own!?
:S
I tend to think using the entire big picture as the true context, and then understanding the mechanisms and controls being employed by all side's as a measure of actual intention. From this an initial association to the laws of wars and human rights can be ascertained, and from that then conduct is measured against it. I dont think that approach is a Western delusion/bias, but rather a human rights and letter of the law bias - for which I'm happy to be guilty because I think its the most moral way.

So if the West acts lawfully, and the enemy acts lawfully to its own laws, then its easy because we could just compare which laws each side are using and contrast them against our position on human rights!!

Let us also not forget


when the rich wage war it is the poor who die, the other part to that is the rich win regardless of outcome...
now please do not think me evil but if there is war and fights and skirmishes make no mistake some one is getting rich regardless of your views ...the tools for war are paid for in money..please dont forget that.

carlos.martinez3 wrote: Let us also not forget


when the rich wage war it is the poor who die, the other part to that is the rich win regardless of outcome...
now please do not think me evil but if there is war and fights and skirmishes make no mistake some one is getting rich regardless of your views ...the tools for war are paid for in money..please dont forget that.

Incorrect, it is religion agendas that are the big product of war. Every war resulted from either religion or agendas. Donald trump or Rockefeller are not out there starting wars.

Revan Falton wrote:

carlos.martinez3 wrote: Let us also not forget


when the rich wage war it is the poor who die, the other part to that is the rich win regardless of outcome...
now please do not think me evil but if there is war and fights and skirmishes make no mistake some one is getting rich regardless of your views ...the tools for war are paid for in money..please dont forget that.

Incorrect, it is religion agendas that are the big product of war. Every war resulted from either religion or agendas. Donald trump or Rockefeller are not out there starting wars.

The rich use religion as a way to push people apart, and pit them against each other. Carlos is correct, if you study any major war, there is always some underlying organization getting rich. You don't think the Catholic church built the Vatican, or any of it's other exuberant holdings on the backs of the tithes of the poor do you?

Study the works of US Marine Major General Smedley Butler. He has a much different take on war!

Smedley Butler, one of three Marines to earn two medals of honor. That's counting Cpl John Henry Pruitt for his action in WWI. Salt dog right there.