This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No)

Moderators: Adder, Adhara

This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 02 Jul 2011 06:03 #40114

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
While The Council would need to vote on this change I feel that input from all interested members is necessary for informed consideration.

For some time I've felt that calling this Special Interest Group Abrahamic is silly and not reflective of its contents at all. The content of the forum is 99.9%+ Christian.

History and the numbers don't support the current name. In the entire history of TOTJO I'm only aware of one member who nominally practiced the Muslim faith and only one or two who claimed the Jewish faith. I'm not attesting there are not more but stating this from my personal memory and experience.

Contrast this to the significant number of active members who are Christian Jedi. I believe the forum suffers from its current name and would be much more lively and used if we call it what it is - Christian Studies.

This is not to put off any potential member who may be Muslim or Jewish but to enhance a real need that we actually have now. We have a significant Christian population. We have a physical congregation in Minnesota with Zanthan Storm as it's Pastor and Bishop. They are Christian Jedi.

To have a group you have to have ... well ... a group.

In the future if there develops a real demand for an Islamic Studies forum or a Jewish Studies forum (and so on) we can make them.

In the beginning this forum was called The Christian Rite and it was changed on the theory of being more inclusive. That was a mistake. By trying to cast so large a net it's alienating the persons who'd actually use it.

Anyone be they guest or member is most welcome to express his or her ideas about this if interested.
Founder of The Order

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 02 Jul 2011 09:41 #40117

I think Christian studies or something along that line would be a more suitable name. I believe it would be a better description as well and would reflect the content better and would possibly be used more with a name change. As you stated, the Abrahamic religions vary greatly from one another, so it is hard to lump them all into one.

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 02 Jul 2011 10:38 #40121

I see no issue, though a sticky about the change, why, and how we are not trying to put off the other abrahamic faiths might be a good idea if the change is done.

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 02 Jul 2011 21:54 #40127

I have met one Muslim Jedi and one Jewish Jedi. To refer to this group as just Christian really does seem to snub the other two groups. If we changed this to "Christian", then why not change the Pagan group to "Wiccan". To do so with the latter would estrange a number of other groups which do not adhere to Wicca (for example, Hinduism).

If the subject was to change both groups from their names to something a bit more broad (Abrahamic becomes Monotheistic and Pagan becomes Polytheistic) then I might be more willing to accept the idea.
Alethea "Setanaoko" Thompson
Apprentice to Br. John

"Stop praying. Praying is a sense of false accomplishment, thus leading you to inaction. If you stop praying, you will be driven to take action, which in the end will prove more effective." - Nathan Thompson

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 02 Jul 2011 23:12 #40129

As Br John stated though, if needed a group for Jewish, Muslim or other monotheistic religious people could be made. I don't think it would be snubbing them, as they are still welcome and another group can be made if the need or want arose. From how I see it, it is just hard to fit all God or monotheistic based religions under the Abrahamic group. Seeing as each of these often have very differing views on some stances. Also, newcomers might would be less hesitant to join if there was more of a specification of what religion. Not to stereotype, but people can be very protective of their faiths even down to how it is categorized. So in that aspect I see it as more of a help.

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 03 Jul 2011 02:45 #40132

  • Akkarin
  • Akkarin's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Councillor
  • Priest
  • ID: 484
As a non-Christian/Abrahamic Jedi I don't really have any issues other than what Jasper said.
Jasper_Ward wrote:
I see no issue, though a sticky about the change, why, and how we are not trying to put off the other abrahamic faiths might be a good idea if the change is done.

The only thing I would add is maybe to edit the FAQ with the question 'Why is there no Judaism/Islamic special interest group?' That way if anyone ever asks then we have the thread about it and they can see it in the FAQ as well.

The worst thing that can happen is that someone accuses us of being insensitive or otherwise when regarding the views of Islam or Judaism or indeed any other religion.

So I think it is just prudent to cover all of the bases.
Apprentices: discorder, hellisforhorses, Red Lila
Former Apprentices: Desolous
Former Master: Br. John

Councillor
Head of Public Relations and Marketing
Librarian
Associate Pastor

Senior Knight and Priest of the Temple of the Jedi Order

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 03 Jul 2011 05:33 #40133

I know that I'm not an experienced member, but I'd like to point out that I myself don't see a need for that. It will probably only cause some minor future problems (like others said: "Why is there no Islamic/Judaism group?") and the people who use this forum know that it's mostly Christian either way. It will close the door for other Abrahamic religions - not forever, of course, but might be some disappointment for new members.

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 03 Jul 2011 05:43 #40134

  • Xiam
  • Xiam's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Member
  • ID: 1027
Randi Oxford wrote:
I have met one Muslim Jedi and one Jewish Jedi. To refer to this group as just Christian really does seem to snub the other two groups. If we changed this to "Christian", then why not change the Pagan group to "Wiccan". To do so with the latter would estrange a number of other groups which do not adhere to Wicca (for example, Hinduism).

If the subject was to change both groups from their names to something a bit more broad (Abrahamic becomes Monotheistic and Pagan becomes Polytheistic) then I might be more willing to accept the idea.
This was my thinking as well. I would have agreed to switch to Christian Rite had there been nothing but Christians, but as it was mentioned that there were a small few of the Abrahamic Rite that are not Christian, I am much more wary about it. A minority is still a number. It doesn't seem right that they should be ignored just to make the majority more comfortable (and really, how much of a change in comfort is it anyway? Christianity is an Abrahamic religion).

Plus, there's the issue of how to deal with those who aren't Christian and are looking for a place where they fit (i.e. the hypothetically nonexistent Abrahamic Rite). You can talk about placing disclaimers or answers in the FAQ or waiting for complaints, but that still takes effort on their part, when all they're wanting is to find a place where they can be comfortable, and feel a bit nervous when they can't find it.

Maybe I'm overthinking things in assuming that would be their reactions, I don't know. It just seems like a needless change. And again, .1% may be small, but it's still something worth considering.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Qui-Ran Demera

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 03 Jul 2011 06:37 #40136

  • Br. John
  • Br. John's Avatar
  • NOW ONLINE
  • Councillor
  • Bishop
  • ID: 523
I'm looking at this from the perspective of mislabeling or false advertising. What's actually in that forum? I'm not finding any Jewish or Muslim discussions but plenty of Christian discussions including prayers and ceremonies for a multitude of occasions.

I frequently eat and get take out from a local Black Eye Pea restaurant. The food is very good and so it the service. Several months ago my mother and I went there and the special was Chicken and Dumplings. We ordered it. What a letdown. It was Chicken Soup with dumplings thrown in. Even Campbell's Soup gets this right. They have a Chicken Soup with Dumplings and then they have Chicken and Dumplings which (I hope) you all know is a rich creamy sauce with plenty of chicken and dumplings made from biscuit batter.

So while I don't know how a Muslim or Jewish person would feel if they go in this forum I do understand the disappointment of expecting something and not getting it.

Nobody's saying we cannot have and add forums labeled Muslim Studies and Jewish Studies.

What I'm saying is that we properly label that forum to reflect what's actually in it.
Founder of The Order

Re: This Should Be Christian Not Abrahamic (Yes / No) 03 Jul 2011 21:31 #40149

Then perhaps it would be a good idea for people who are in that forum to help bring about more teachings from the other two systems. Just to help even things out. After all, Christianity sprung forth from Judaism, and Islam sprung from Christianity. It helps bring about a more well rounded view of how the system has evolved in the three systems.

You know, so long as they remain respectful when researching and posting.
Alethea "Setanaoko" Thompson
Apprentice to Br. John

"Stop praying. Praying is a sense of false accomplishment, thus leading you to inaction. If you stop praying, you will be driven to take action, which in the end will prove more effective." - Nathan Thompson
The following user(s) said Thank You: Nameless3450
Latest Posts Comments Articles
    • Jediism, connect multiple communitys and orders. [... (Last post by Brenna)
    • Quote: Quote: On the subject of a news outlet, I think Connor came up with an idea for a newsletter, and I could print and address it... I like this idea. How about a blog/facebook page/twitter account to cover topics which may be of interest to all Jedi "Jedi News", "Jedi Holonet" or something like that. Something which begins a sense of a global, universal Jedi community rather than attempting to impose or arrange one around people who are quite happy with things as they are? These have all been attempted before more than once with very limited success
    • My vision for a United Jedi Order (Last post by Alan)
    • How and who determines 'Who is in the right' is a question of justice. Justice determines who is the right wielder of the gun (or any means, process, institution, or technology to dispense justice); and the why, that is, determining that the intention distinguishes the act as just. How is it within their rights to kill? Who has such rights? From whence do they come? Bestowed? Earned? Inherited? Contractual? Individual? Essential? Natural? The metaphor of balance is traditional in the understanding of the nature of justice. If the Force is the source of balance, then perhaps an investigation of the nature of the Force, will lead us to discover the nature of Justice.
    • MTG prerelease tonight!!! (Last post by rugadd)
    • I used to be a judge for that. Got $85 store credit for the last few boxes just last week. I just can not afford it anymore. Crack the Gathering for sure.
    • "The Way of the Knight of Jedi Realism" ... (Last post by MJ Hannigan)
    • Quote: That's one of the things I enjoy about you most, Hannigan. I never feel like I have to worry about how your self esteem is doing. When am I going to be a guest on your show? Well i am taking this sunday off from "Jedi Realist Radio Presents" and i will start my new Series next sunday where i will be talking about concepts from Living the Martial Way book. I will give you a outline of dates times and subjects and you are welcome to jump on any show you like. This goes for anyone if you want to call in I would love to have you.
    • HAPPINESS (Last post by Doomeniek)
    • I wish you great strength in overcoming your traumas, i have faith in you that you will. For me i have the strange ability to be happy about little things, wind blowing in my face, even rain. The smallest of a sunray touching my skin. This i cant teach you ..alas.. But if i must trust my friends i have a nack for sharing my happyness. If you ever want to talk about anything, send me a pm. I am here for you.
    • The Imperishable Gem (Last post by Wescli Wardest)
    • “The lotus is the most beautiful flower, whose petals open one by one. But it will only grow in the mud. In order to grow and gain wisdom, first you must have the mud --- the obstacles of life and its suffering. ... The mud speaks of the common ground that humans share, no matter what our stations in life. ... Whether we have it all or we have nothing, we are all faced with the same obstacles: sadness, loss, illness, dying and death. If we are to strive as human beings to gain more wisdom, more kindness and more compassion, we must have the intention to grow as a lotus and open each petal one by one. ” ― Goldie Hawn
    • Today is a good day (Last post by Doomeniek)
    • Hey all, having a lunch break on the balcony of my ward, Today is a good day! The sun is out and feeling happy, thought id share it! [attachment] [attachment] Enjoy!

There are 174 visitors, 8 guests and 19 members online (one is in chat): Br. John, Zanthan Storm, Shadouness, Joe, Lightstrider, Desolous, Proteus, ckott, Brenna, Buvan, Llama Su, Kamizu, Esquire, Edan, SilverWolf, jadedbehan, Jamie Stick, Mathew Erickson, samaquil, SeventhSL, Targeran Arynal, Acheron, Quae-Do Lumen, Sabel.

Follow Us