The Problem with Black Lives Matter

BLM started protesting something more specific and something more heinous than police shootings. If a cop shoots a person who is from the majority one could more easily call that a mistake. Did that white cop intentionally shoot that other white person? Maybe? But it is more likely that they only shot them because they felt like they had to for their own safety or the safety of others. Who's going to protest them for that? Maybe a small group might protest one or two officers who have a violent history. But certainly they weren't targeting white people. Who on earth would actually think that white cops would go out there targeting white people???

This is different.

By introducing the racial component we are NOT simply talking about police shootings at it is really a smack to the face of black people to take something that is obviously and overtly racist to us and tell us it isn't racism at all and we're imagining things. That is so dismissive. It's like telling a woman that she didn't get raped because men and women are equal so how could a man rape a woman and why would a man target a woman to rape her? Really? There's no difference? Of course there is. And we need to start seeing a difference when it is an issue. Think insurance companies don't absolutely take advantage of sick people? Do you need to be sick before you find out?

When white supremists chanted blood and soil...
When a white supremists runs people over in his car...
When Dylan Roof gunned down a bunch of black people praying in a church...
There is no doubt that these actions are evil. They reflect the worst hatred and the worst human instinct.

Now imagine the driver of that car and Dylan Roof are partners on a police force, wearing badges paid by your tax dollars. Imagine that these guys are the ones policing your community. If you're white, you may never even notice because they're not pulling YOU over unless they have to. They're not beating YOU up... unless you give them no choice. But what do you think they would do with their authority when all they have to do is say they saw one of us about to pull a weapon and they feared for their lives? This is the fear we live with every day. These cops don't wear swastikas on their uniforms. They don't wear hoods or give the nazi salute. We don't know which one is a racist and which isn't. So guess what? We don't trust any of them by default. We've learned over many years that we can't. We want to. We want things to be different. But until they are different, every cop is potentially a neo-nazi. Every single cop is potentially the KKK. Because just like the Matrix... any one of them you see can be an agent of hate and oppression. And internet videos are proving now what we've always known. We're not making up what's happening to us. We never were. When thousands of black people are supporting BLM, many times more than what you'll ever see at a march or rally, you should take it seriously. They're not making it up. You can look for faults. You can say they shot a criminal... but the law affords ALL citizens due process, not summary execution. You can say, "oh it was just a mistake" but they make many more "mistakes" with us than with you. So these are not just police shootings that we're talking about.

These are racially motivated hate crimes as well as terrorism.

And it is when whites don't see or understand this to the extent that it is a reality for us, that's when we feel like we are fighting all alone against the entire society that is ready and willing to sit back and watch us die. It is a miracle that there isn't more violence against the police. It really is. What some members of BLM have done is NOTHING compared to what many are prepared to do, because while you think it's not that bad, that's not how we feel and many are not willing to sit in time out waiting for the next time when it might happen to someone they know, or maybe even themselves.

There was a young woman who got shot in front of her son. I would describe her has incredibly unhinged. Truly, she brought her death upon herself. She was so angry at the police that even a simply stop became a life or death struggle for her. She truly believed her very life was threatened the moment she saw those lights in her rear view mirror. Was her death justified? Absolutely. She probably would have shot as many as she could but that was because in her mind, they were all a threat to her and her son. Again, was she crazy? Yep. But that fear didn't come from nowhere. It was raised and nurtured by the history of violent interactions with police that she was aware of.

With all due respect, no white person in America wakes up like this; afraid of the police, thinking today might be the day they get shot walking home from school, or walking to the store, or driving a nice car. They assume you're guilty and they feel good when they catch you. All of them? Of course not. But enough to make it a bigger problem for us than for you. We don't exclude whites because we hate you. We exclude whites because you're not the victims of racially motivated criminal behavior of the part of local government. We can't control gang violence. Do we try? Of course we do. However, we should be able to control the police because we're paying them to follow the rules we all agree to. But some are playing by a different set of rules. And when they kill us? They usually get away with it, signalling to other racists that they're allowed to as long as they're wearing a badge.

And sometimes... even when they're not.

Rosalyn J wrote: The contents of this video may be disturbing to some viewers

Warning: Spoiler!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OpYHE5dFII

Good evening ladies and gentlemen. It seems I need my own learning opportunity, so I would like to start a discussion about a topic affects people like me

Thank you for sharing this. Though the topic may not directly affect me (apart from the fact that I allow it to affect me to some degree) the topic matters to me.

I am not racist. I have black friends, I have had Asian friends, I have white friends, I have had Hispanic/Latino friends, I have had Middle Eastern friends, I have had Jewish friends, etc. etc. etc. I believe institutionalized racism is a major problem in the United States.

Just so we are clear,
I don't agree with the premise of this video

Just so I am clear: I do agree with the premise of this video. Which is saying something as I have generally supported the cause of movements like BLM and the anti-fascists.

I think the person who posted this video is being honest. I don't think he is being racist. If anyone thinks he is being racist...well, frankly, you are being oversensitive and might need to re-examine your personal definitions for "racist" and "racism."

All that being said, I do think the BLM movement COULD be a very good thing. However, I think ALM would be a better movement.

Whenever someone who is Caucasian says "I have black friends" it seems like I already know what's coming. They are about to side with a criticism against BLM or black people in general, but they want their criticism to sound different, ie. 'not racist', because they don't think it is. Why not? Because you have black friends?

What's funny is that the NFL protest is probably the most popular black protest in our history. You would think, because everyone loves Martin Luther King Jr. now that it was always so and that his protests were popular. No, white people en mass, did not like his protests. Black protesters were attacked. Black protesters were lynched. Black protesters were hung. Black protesters, including the now beloved MLK, were assassinated.

The reason institutional racism has survived to this day is because too many whites are able to turn the other way while it's happening and behave as though it doesn't exist and this is not a problem that we need to protest. Honestly, when the black community is in pain we are BY OURSELVES. Of course white people offer advice from the comfortable position of power, telling us what we should do to better survive under their authority, when it is the responsibility of the police to protect and serve EVERYONE. Understandably, this advice, which often involves bootstraps and hypocrisy, falls on deaf ears because it doesn't seem like they really care until they are being personally inconvenienced.

When you fall and hit your knee, local nerve cells send signals to your brain to tell "you" where the injury is so that "you" can do something about it. The more intense the pain, the more damage may be done. If black people are protesting, it's the same as local nerve cells sending pain signals to the country to let the country know where the problem is so that the nation can do something about it.

If the nation does little to nothing about it then how could it be said that 1. It's not really a problem or 2. the problem is both legs and the knee shouldn't send pain signals for itself but rather when something affect your knee and your elbow your knee shouldn't send pain signals to the brain unless it is coordinating with the elbow.

Does this make any sense to you?

But when it's black people, somehow it makes sense to people that black people shouldn't complain or shouldn't protest, or that black people are "doing it wrong". No one tells us how we should protest. It's always how we shouldn't.

When I have a problem, I don't need to gather all the other people that have the same problem and coordinate on how we're going to solve it together.

Whites are getting shot too. But question.... did white people create a group called "ALL LIVES MATTER"? Did white people organize against bad cops? Did white people, who have more power, and who are in a majority, and who are getting killed at an uncomfortable rate by the police, come to black people and say "hey, let's coordinate because this is affecting all of us?"

No. That didn't happen.

All lives matter did not exist. White lives matter did not exist. One might even question whether whites were being killed at an uncomfortable rate or if they were getting killed at a rate that was quite comfortable for them.

Suddenly, it was when BLACK PEOPLE had a problem.... magically... quite suddenly.... white had a problem, NOT WITH THE POLICE.... but with black people protesting.

Amazing, huh?

White people could have simply said, "YES, I agree. We need to do something about bad cops. And you know what? This is happening to us too so that gives us even more reason to do something about... BAD COPS. Let's call our representatives. Let's call our mayors. Let's put political pressure on this."

But no.

White people said, "We need to do something about black people protesting OUR cops."

And that's how "ALL LIVES MATTER" was even thought up in the first place. It was to ATTACK the entire concept of the BLM protest. It is an attack that denies that the problem even exists. Because if a white person doesn't get a job everything's fair. If a black person doesn't get a job everything must be fair if a white person didn't get it either. That's logical, but that's not reality. In REALITY a black person not getting called back for a job could be because they weren't qualified but it could ALSO be because they were black. And if they are a woman that's another possible strike if the interviewer has a gender bias. So just because you get pulled over for speeding doesn't mean that the police's motives never have anything to do with race. A lot of cops are A-holes by nature because it is a job that attracts those personality types. So yes, a cop could give you a hard time and even shoot you because they're A-holes who were probably picked on in middle school, but there are also A-holes who are racists. We do not have to ignore racism just because they're also A-holes in general.

Where people's intentions are tends to follow their expenditure of energy. The person who made the video invested the energy into voicing BLM criticisms in a time when doing so has been like the in thing to do and it was done by pundits and commentators constantly (because they hated BLM). These same people do not invest the same or greater amounts of energy into criticising the police or talking about who everyone should be calling in order to create political pressure on the police force to change. No... what people did was they changed the argument. They made it seem like they were defending cops like people defend the troops. It's a political dog whistle. Whenever they want you to stop doing something they just pretend you are somehow violating the flag, the national anthem, the troops (because they can take bullets but their feelings might get hurt). They always try to CHANGE what it is that black people are protesting in order to make the protest WRONG.

I ask you not to fall for it.

Black people do not need to coordinate our pain.
Black people do not need to protest in a way that you're comfortable with.
Black people do not need to ignore racism just because you don't want to think any of these cops are racist.
Black people do not need to ignore things like Stop and Frisk.
Black people do not need to ignore the fact that we've been racially profiled for many years.
Black people do not need to forget the fact that the KKK wore hoods because many of them were members of law enforcement
Black people do not need to have a politically correct protest when whites elected a politically incorrect president. That is the height of hypocrisy.
Black people do not need to wait on other people to get behind them when the same people are willing to ignore their message and attack them.
Black people do not need to ignore dog whistle racism, gerrymandering, the 'Southern Strategy' etc.
Black people do not need to pretend that racism suddenly ended the day Obama took the Oath of Office, especially when many whites were calling him and his wife racial slurs
Black people do not need to ignore the way the criminal justice system treats us unfairly or even ask if white officers are also planting drugs on white suspects.
Black people do not need to ignore how ridiculous it is to shoot a child at a park with a toy gun in a matter of seconds when they talk down grown men
Black people do not need to ignore the fact that if a cop is having a bad day we can follow every instruction and law and still end up dead
Black people do not need to ignore that most white cops who kill black people get away with it. Many are not even indicted.
Black people do not need to trust the police because we have years of experience proving that we cannot.

The truth is that every anti-BLM criticism seeks to put black people in check. They, in general, want to ignore the racism and would rather black people not protest at all. We can tell who's really supporting us and who's really for us by those who are willing to set their own race to the side and just be HUMAN enough to see that racism is something that we ALL need to stop. But racism isn't happening to ALL of us. It's happening mainly to black people.

And if you think I'm being too sensitive consider this...

Hispanic men are also racially profiled. Hispanics are also ridiculed with racial slurs. I remember when I found out what a "wet back" was. I was 18 or 19. So they also have a reason to complain about the cops being racists but what you don't see them complaining about is Black Lives Matter. You don't see them going crazy over a lack of inclusion to the point that everyone just ignores what we're actually protesting and the fact that people of all races can react to a protest by getting involved. A protest is a vehicle to raise awareness. But the change comes from the people who see it and who aren't willing to sit on the sidelines and debate the merits of the protest or mistakes emotional humans make in protesting or making videos about why they don't think they're racists. DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE PROBLEM! And then if you want to make an All Lives Matter organization that ALSO protests the police, then go right ahead because no one said whites couldn't do that. But it's All lives matter is not about protesting bad police officers. It's a counter protest, protesting black people.

Not necessarily, some people just know accuracy is really important and when its weak or absent, it can raise red flags about intention. Racism for example focuses on using race to categorize for reasons other then race, and that process can easily become discrimination because such use has its scope (category) exceeding its accuracy (attribute eg race). An easy way to avoid being racist is to ensure the attributes are held by all members of whatever category is being labelled by that attribute. Saying all white people have power is an example, and also saying all black people don't, is another example IMO. What would be probably more correct versions of the first one for example would be either all people in power have more power, or more white people in the US have power then black people in the US. Clear messages are clear.

Such that anyone who relies on race to overly simplify a usually real aspect of the category can potentially be doing so deliberately, and so as misinformation when anything else supports the red flags about intention then their will be a wider range of push-back - no matter the intent of the original message. Because the intent is lost in the badly delivered message, because of the inaccuracy of it. Is BLM a good label for the intended meaning... IMO its a bit weak as it can be misinterpreted as others do not. And so ALM address that inconsistency - but at the cost of detail of the intended meaning. So neither are ideal, perhaps there is something else better!!??

From my experience those who misinterpret BLM do so because it doesn't benefit them. They become defensive. BLM simply says Black lives matter. It doesn't say they only matter or that they matter more.
Because it doesn't include them they find it discomforting or offensive. In all honesty people need to get over themselves here. Black lives do matter. In the history of our nation Black lives have had it the worst or second worst out of the races involved(Native Americans being the contender).
We might not be guilty of kidnapping and enslaving but we are guilty of cowardice if we don't commit to the discomfort of this conversation.

Just my feelings.

Adder wrote: Not necessarily, some people just know accuracy is really important and when its weak or absent, it can raise red flags about intention. Racism for example focuses on using race to categorize for reasons other then race, and that process can easily become discrimination because such use has its scope (category) exceeding its accuracy (attribute eg race). An easy way to avoid being racist is to ensure the attributes are held by all members of whatever category is being labelled by that attribute. Saying all white people have power is an example, and also saying all black people don't, is another example IMO. What would be probably more correct versions of the first one for example would be either all people in power have more power, or more white people in the US have power then black people in the US. Clear messages are clear.

Such that anyone who relies on race to overly simplify a usually real aspect of the category can potentially be doing so deliberately, and so as misinformation when anything else supports the red flags about intention then their will be a wider range of push-back - no matter the intent of the original message. Because the intent is lost in the badly delivered message, because of the inaccuracy of it. Is BLM a good label for the intended meaning... IMO its a bit weak as it can be misinterpreted as others do not. And so ALM address that inconsistency - but at the cost of detail of the intended meaning. So neither are ideal, perhaps there is something else better!!??

First, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. However, when people say "white people have the power" or something to that effect what it means is that white people are in the majority in a representative democracy. Therefore, they have the greatest influence on society and on government. It doesn't mean that white people have group meetings and decide as a group to vote for white issues or vote against black issues. It seems means that "collectively", the majority, by voting for their own issues, and using their political capital/pressure for their own issues, it creates real power that positively affects them and often negatively affects the minority.

Let's put it in a different way. Let's say that a representative number of whites and other races are in a restaurant and there are a limited number of tables and a limited supply of the best meats. Already, there's inequality because the whites will go in with more money to spend. The restaurant isn't unaware of this fact. So who is most likely to get the best service? You may not even notice a difference if you are a customer. If you're a white customer you may not be aware of the difference in service that you are getting compared to minorities. You may experience "normal service". A minority customer may not notice a difference either if they can't see how whites are being served. If you have nothing to compare it to, no frame of reference, then it is not impossible to simply not notice a difference.

In this case and many other cases the judgment is seemingly based on class. These people have money. These people don't. Businesses are therefore more afraid of losing business from the person who can potentially give them the most money. However, how does a business discern which is which? Police officers use racial profiling based on the idea that most of the crime is being done by a certain group. And if the main factor that determines most non-violent crime is income then how do they determine, without seeing your tax returns, which is which? I'm one of the highest paid people in my company and I'm black. That doesn't mean there isn't racial bias or discrimination. And I love the owner of the company like a family member because he treats his employees like family (It's a family business). I would never say anything bad about him but bias is not binary. There are degrees and he's not the only one who makes decisions that affect people. And do I make as much as I should? No. But I don't think the reason for that is racially motivated. I say this because I'm not one of those people who think everything is about race. Money is the biggest factor in a capitalistic society like ours. But again, when you're in a situation where the only thing you know about a person is what you see, it's very easy to judge a book by its cover and there are plenty of unfavorable stereotypes that negatively affect minorities.

There are many African Americans who believe white people, in general, hate them because of their race. I know there are because they'll say things in my presence they will never say in yours (unless they're really angry). By the same token, I've either overheard things from white people I wasn't supposed to hear or been told by another white person who was frustrated that they had to hear it (because they don't feel the same way), that exposed the extremely low level of respect for people on the singular basis of race. Why do I have to be a "nigger" when this person knows nothing about me? And why, when I wasn't even thinking about him at all, did he have to be thinking about me in negative sense?

I've had more than my fair share of run ins with racism, from drunk people, to children (with and without parents present), and it's truly sickening. But what's almost more sickening is how, when black people try to tell the society that says "liberty and justice for all" that we have a wide spread problem that involves race, white people want to INSTEAD of fixing the problem, act as if black protesters are the problem and proceed to operate in a counter-fashion to what we're trying to do to protect ourselves. And we wouldn't even have to say "Black lives matter" if we felt that they matter to white people. Think about the statement! I don't have to say black lives matter to other black people. That would be stupid. You only say it when it is in question. Black Lives Matter is a statement that is the answer to the question, "do black lives matter [to you]"? If I'm bringing my car to the shop and I say "my car needs an axle" and the mechanic's response is "all cars need an axle" do you understand that I'm going to have to resist the urge to punch the guy in the face? And I'm not a violent person. I don't have a short fuse at all. I don't literally mean I want to punch everyone who makes smart ass comments. I'm simply telling you how I would feel in regards to a comment that is obviously a smart ass remark that has no value to the needs of MY car. I'm paying you to fix MY car, not all cars. So even this idea that "it's about accuracy", no it's really not. That's just an excuse. The idea that we need to think about all the ways in which white people might get offended or might misunderstand or misrepresent something we're doing for a GOOD CAUSE is utterly ridiculous (imho). Even children are told, "if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all".

I have a lot of respect for Malcolm X but not very much for the Nation of Islam. Some of his rhetoric, at the time, wasn't beneficial and yet I could feel where he was coming from. His approach was more rigid than MLK and definitely more reactive. Both MLK and Malcolm X were unpopular with whites in their time and both are honored and respected today. But at the time both were attacked with criticisms because people wanted to stop what they were doing. Now that it's history, and had some positive results, all of a sudden criticism is no longer fashionable. We're talking about a reaction to a large number of people, not just being treated unfairly like some schoolyard bully, but rather people getting lynched, murdered, etc.

In another thread a member talked about getting off the bus at the wrong stop and how fortunate it was that he had a gun and how prepared he was to use it against members of a gang who had blunt objects. He felt he needed to be armed in case of a situation in which he could receive bodily harm and possibly kill those with the intent to harm him before they got the chance to do so; based on the potential harm and feeling like his life was in danger.

I can empathize with him but it's harder for me and only goes so far because the idea that deadly force is the way to stop someone from potentially hurting you has never been an acceptable option for minorities. My best friends father had to flee the south because he was told, after beating up a white man who was harassing and physically assaulting him, that he was going to be killed. If I told you his story in 2017 you'd think I was talking about a gang when it's a story about white people in the South.

Black people have been in this situation, suffering in relative silence, for a long time; a situation where many whites wore hoods to conceal the fact that they were members of law enforcement. We have Mark Fuhrman on tape talking about how they would treat black people. We have cops on tape planting evidence against us. We have cops on tape beating us. We have cops on tape shooting first without any questions; even kids. The only difference now is that we have more evidence because of cell phones capturing what has been happening this whole time. But before, we didn't have youtube to share stories or cameras to capture evidence. Imagine all the cases of abuse that must have gone on before. And the fact that we do have cameras and social media should scare the police and make them stop doing these things but they're clearly so used to it... it's impossible. And they're not just used to committing these crimes against black people but they're used to getting away with it. That's why they do it.

Accuracy? Too often the "desire to be accurate" allows cops to get away with murder. Accurate is a relatively subjective concept. The reason people even challenge what's said is because they have a bias and don't want to believe it. So then they start looking for alternative answers that are more fitting with what they want to believe. In some cases people react before they get the full story, before they get all the facts. In the OJ trial, the nation was split because before he could be found guilty or not, most people had already made up their minds that he was guilty. Accuracy wasn't more important in their emotional outrage than their desire for justice. And guess what? It never is. Accuracy is always secondary which is why there are many black people who are executed by the State who were actually innocent. But as a society we overlook accuracy in these cases where people suffer the ultimate consequence but suddenly we want to be accurate in 100% of cases when it comes to defending the police. And in doing so people ignore and overlook the fact that BLM is not a product of 1 or 2 cases of misconduct, but rather a consistent trend over many years that the nation hasn't noticed but that the black community doesn't have the opportunity to ignore.

Should we shoot first based on our fears? The black panthers were demonized for even being armed and offering protection for their community against the police. How many people today stop to ask the question... "why would they feel so threatened by our police forces to the point of arming themselves like a militia in accordance with the 2nd Amendment?" Why do they feel it's THAT bad? Today, instead of doing what the Black Panther's did (who also had education, food, clinics, and other programs to help the community: http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/03/26/8-black-panther-party-programs-that-were-more-empowering-than-federal-government-programs/) we protest in the most non-violent ways we possibly can. Antifa were the ones who were armed, not BLM. It doesn't seem to matter what we do in protest. It's always wrong, but years later, when it can be shown to have had a positive impact, it will be seen as necessary and maybe even heroic.

Lykeios wrote: I am not racist.

You are white: you cant NOT BE racist. You are racist because, as a white person, you benefit from a racist system.
Even if youre not racist on purpose, youre unconsciously racist and thats still racist. (Even though the IAT has been debunked)



Not only that, but youre also part of the only racial group that CAN be racist: whites. No person of any other racial group is even capable of being racist no matter how much individual authority they have in society because their group identity doesnt hold the institutional power necessary to make racism possible.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/20/ohio-state-workshop-tells-students-only-whites-can-be-racists/



I am not exaggerating or mis-characterizing the rhetoric one bit. This is hte problem with BLM and all the other extreme leftist movements right now which are claiming social justice and equality. They are fundamentally racist themselves, irrational and divisive. They increase the amount of racism in the world instead of decreasing it.

Bill Cosby


Right off the bat, here is my bias...

The idea that Bill Cosby would sexually assault women is uncomfortable to me partially because he is a noteworthy member of my community.

That being said, there were a lot of allegations that made him seem guilty. There were too many to ignore. Once so many women were speaking out most people, black people included, had already concluded at least some degree of guilt.

Why is this relevant to BLM? Well let's see...

In more than a few cases the women LIED.

Now already, if there was no hypocrisy in America, the entire case against Cosby should have been endlessly and mercilessly attacked. People should have been outraged that the Cosby show was taken off air and Cosby punished financially, etc.

No, anyone who was lying was ignored for the chance that even one of the women were telling the truth.

How much time did most people spend trying to debunk the case? The only reason I know about the many lies and inaccuracies is because of my bias working in Bill's favor. When Michael Jackson was on trial in the media and in just about every social circle I had a bias then too, but I had less connection with MJ because honestly I was young and thought he was weird. And honestly... he was weird. But when I thought he might be innocent I defended him. It's not impossible that human beings didn't look at MJ and Cosby and see dollar signs. In fact, I would venture to say that most people who don't exploit others still occasionally have the thought about how they could. In fact, in the case of Cosby, there was a woman who came out in an interview saying that someone tried to pay her to seduce and set Cosby up. Maybe she was lying. That's possible. But she didn't have a motive to lie. And suddenly all these things were coming out about Cosby so many years after anything allegedly happened?

"Oh Bill Cosby was too powerful!" No, at the time, he wasn't. And the thought of a white woman getting sexually assaulted by a black man... there is no amount of power Cosby could have ever had to negate that. Whole communities of black people were burned down over such allegations.

But jokes about Bill Cosby drugging women flooded the internet. I wont lie. I made a few myself.

The only thing that Cosby ever admitted to were drugs that many people were doing at time voluntarily. Today, people go to the clubs, pass around a little ecstasy or whatever. That's what people do. I wouldn't. Maybe you wouldn't. But to a lot of people that's what partying means; getting intoxicated and doing things they wouldn't do sober. I used to be a fierce opponent of men getting women drunk in bars. I was young and in my young mind I saw the men as predators and the women as prey. I mean why do you need to intoxicate a woman by buying her multiple drinks if she was going to sleep with you anyway? To me that still sounds perfectly logical, and yet, what I know about women now makes it far more complex. Women often go to bars for that exact outcome to happen. Maybe they'll regret who they slept with later and use the 'beer goggles' excuse but they went there wanting to have sex and they willingly participated in lowering their inhibitions in a society that tends to unfairly denigrate women for being promiscuous.

No one knows this better than iconic entertainers. They have human bodies thrown at them while others have to pay for it in different ways. Sometimes, their name alone is enough to get them laid.

Now make no mistake about it. Bill Cosby can have all the mistrials he wants. He could even be found completely not guilty. However, we all know he's destroyed because of this and there is no hope of rehabilitating his image. MAYBE after he dies some prominent reporter will dig into the women and try to figure out what happened. And let's be clear. Many of these women aren't saying they were raped by Cosby but rather that he did something they felt at the time was inappropriate.

But the point is, that the mere effect of having so many people speak out against one man.... done. Destroyed.

Evidence ignored. Accuracy not important. The accusers were treated like they were victims.

Many, many, many, many black people have spoken out against bad cops in an environment in which black men especially do not feel safe. One black woman's fear was so heightened that she was completely irrational and precipitated her own death in front of her child (even though one could argue that killing her was avoidable). In this case the bias of America is exposed. The victims who were killed are treated like accusers. Their blood cries out to the rest of us for justice, but... for many people they just have to find some criticism to justify the officer's use of deadly force. On one hand, it doesn't effect them, but on the other hand... I think the reality is that they could imagine themselves pulling the trigger. They could imagine themselves feeling threatened by that situation. They can empathize with the cops based on their own unspoken fear.

But here's an interesting statistic...

Statistics show that 1 in 4 women in the US is a victim of domestic violence, those numbers jump to 1 in 2 if they are married to a cop.

Police beat their OWN wives or girlfriends at DOUBLE the national rate and they're the ones who are trained to deescalate situations?! If you're willing to do that to someone you love... what would you do to someone you hate? What would you do to someone who you think is responsible for most of the crime? Last time I checked, domestic violence and abuse was criminal. Could they be doing it possibly because they have more of a chance to see themselves as above the law? Is that possible? And if that's possible how might they bend or break the law when pursuing someone who they desire to see as being a worse person than them?

Time out for accuracy... am I saying all police beat their wives? Of course not. I shouldn't have to say this, but apparently I do.

We have police officers with motive. We know that power corrupts and police officers have a lot of power to enforce laws. We also know that there is a financial motive to bring in money for their districts as well as quotas that incentivize racial profiling. We know all these things.

But when its one man like Bill Cosby or Michael Jackson and many accusers they MUST be guilty while the police... according to the bias of most Americans, must be given the benefit of the doubt, and gotta be super accurate because maybe this big black guy thought he could kill 3-4 trained police officers with his bare hands and then flee to avoid arrest. You've seen the Hulk. Maybe a black guy in a car was thinking, rather than getting a ticket, let me just murder this white cop with a kid in the back seat. Maybe this little black kid in a park was about to go on some kind of terrorist rampage like some kind of child soldier version of Terminator.

We go out on a limb to defend the police when there are hundreds of current allegations and so many past allegations that black people would laugh at the idea of keeping count. So let's be honest. There is an overt bias against BLM because there is a covert bias against black people. We can all sit here and come up with justifications or we can accept the truth that is reflected in both personal and institutional racism. There is a bias against black people that predetermines guilt to the extent that black people are guilty until proven innocent and we are thought to be predators until you get to know us. And until you do, ironically, it is we who are the prey. And every white person isn't uniformly guilty but most people, of all races, spend a lot of time looking the other way. And that... is why we protest.

Much respect and love to the many people on this forum who are not racist or who have a very low degree of bias. It's not about being perfect. It's about working together for a more perfect union. As much as I might seem agitated or heated on this subject, I have to be more passionate and long-winded because there are not many voices here who are like mine. And being in the minority position makes it very difficult to be heard or understood because so many seem to oppose whatever it is you're trying to say. But I do appreciate the vast majority of you who let me say what I have to say without complaining too much about how inartfully I may at times say it. And maybe there is a better way. But until we know what that is we can only do the best we know how to do.

That last post is why ive mostly withdrawn from this topic. I give specific talking points and wait for a reply, and when the reply comes it is very long and yet doesnt address anything ive brought up. I dont care about Bill Cosby. Once he admitted to buying roofies and putting them in womens drinks my mind was made up.. thats not a party tactic its a rape tactic so f**k bill cosby. Not because he is black but because he slipped rooffies into womens drinks to sexually assault them. And Im not afraid of people calling me a racist or thinking that I am a racist. If you think i am a racist that simply convinces me that you are a fool.

Yes, the police in America are out of control.



http://www.copwatch.org/

The people with the least amount of money and influence are the ones most vulnerable to abuse and the ones least likely to see justice when abused. Ive said this before and will say it again: the solution to racism is in the economic achievement and social integration of of blacks. Education and investment opportunities for ambitious and talented black people and increased representation of blacks in the police, in politics, and in the various core industries of our economy will result in an affluent and socially influential black population.

Rioting is not ok and running from the cops is not allowed. Communist inspired movements which seek to transpose the idea of the proletariat vs the bourgeoisie onto the American landscape through group vs group identity politics are not necessary or even healthy for our society

Nothing ive said so far has gotten a fair response so im not expecting much, but thats my position.

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Lykeios wrote: I am not racist.

You are white: you cant NOT BE racist. You are racist because, as a white person, you benefit from a racist system.
Even if youre not racist on purpose, youre unconsciously racist and thats still racist. (Even though the IAT has been debunked)

Warning: Spoiler!

http://metro.co.uk/2017/09/01/stop-kidding-yourself-white-people-are-racist-6895283/

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201101/does-the-implicit-association-test-iat-really-measure-racial-prejudice

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443723/implicit-bias-debunked-study-disputes-effects-unconscious-prejudice

Not only that, but youre also part of the only racial group that CAN be racist: whites. No person of any other racial group is even capable of being racist no matter how much individual authority they have in society because their group identity doesnt hold the institutional power necessary to make racism possible.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/20/ohio-state-workshop-tells-students-only-whites-can-be-racists/

Warning: Spoiler!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVI9Phz_ENo

I am not exaggerating or mis-characterizing the rhetoric one bit. This is hte problem with BLM and all the other extreme leftist movements right now which are claiming social justice and equality. They are fundamentally racist themselves, irrational and divisive. They increase the amount of racism in the world instead of decreasing it.

I don't think generalizing every "extreme leftist movement" is a logical way to discuss this. Yes there are people involved with BLM that are in fact racist. Yes non Caucasian people can be racist. Yes just because you are Caucasian doesn't mean you are racist. There is no evidence to support these absolute conditions. These views can and do hurt the cause.

But that doesn't diminish the cause of you keep people accountable for their actions and don't project that on to others. The same way many Caucasians grow angry when blamed for slavery or racism. The same way many peaceful Muslims get blamed for terrorism. Blaming everyone for the actions of a portion is not logical.

Look up the peaceful aspects of BLM that don't make the propaganda headlines. Check out the petitions and sit ins. The authorized protests and social media outreach groups. Check out the volunteers trying to fix the cities or raise money for the schools that are dying.

The media has become a business. The headlines are designed to sell, not inform. Unfortunately it's now our responsibility to dig deeper and search for the facts.

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Lykeios wrote: I am not racist.

You are white: you cant NOT BE racist. You are racist because, as a white person, you benefit from a racist system.
Even if youre not racist on purpose, youre unconsciously racist and thats still racist. (Even though the IAT has been debunked)

Not only that, but youre also part of the only racial group that CAN be racist: whites. No person of any other racial group is even capable of being racist no matter how much individual authority they have in society because their group identity doesnt hold the institutional power necessary to make racism possible.

I am not exaggerating or mis-characterizing the rhetoric one bit. This is hte problem with BLM and all the other extreme leftist movements right now which are claiming social justice and equality. They are fundamentally racist themselves, irrational and divisive. They increase the amount of racism in the world instead of decreasing it.

I'd like to offer you this correction, in love. Or at least that is my intent.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/20/ohio-state-workshop-tells-students-only-whites-can-be-racists/

I read this article.

The title of the article is "Ohio State Workshop Tells Students Only Whites Can Be Racists"

So was this "rhetoric" aimed at hyping up black people to protest? No, it was a lecture to 20 people; 19 of which were white students.

Racism is a very charged word that is confused with racial prejudice and discrimination. Whether the confusion is engineered, I cannot say. I will say it seems rather convenient to me though.

So what is racism?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi9imppcCUc

Racism is a competitive relationship that is power based. It is confused for not liking someone because of their skin color because it has race in the name. Many black people don't even know what racism is. So occasionally you'll have a few trying to educate others.

So when they say "black people can't be racist", please do not get confused. They're not saying that black people cannot racially profile, engage in racial stereotypes, hate or dislike based on race, or be prejudicial or discriminate based on race. These are different concepts that people generally do not understand and are not mutually exclusive.

Because "racist" has come to be such an emotionally charged word it is quite understandable that no one wants to be called a racist. Even some of the white protestors with the tiki torches have said they didn't want to be identified as racist; they are just "pro-white".

When I was young I used to think that a racist was someone who thought their race was superior to others. But again, this is not the definition of racism held by everyone and the definition I was given as a child was really the same over simplified mess that informs most people.

Racism doesn't mean that you think your race is the "master race". It really just means that you are part of a system, conscious or unconscious, that collectively maintains "white supremacy".

No one person built America. And it's hard when Americans, as individuals, have to face the hatred for some of the things our government has done in our name. However, as an American, it's a difficult argument for me to attempt, to separate myself from democratically elected officials making decisions that in their minds represent their constituents. If I was taken hostage by Isis, I don't know what I'd say. I could say I disagree with the murder of innocent Muslims, especially women and children. But I cannot deny my status as an American citizen and that my tax dollars helped pay for that.

I personally feel like it's not fair because I am in the majority, to take responsibility for the collective will of the majority but it's my responsibility to influence the views of the majority and if I fail to do that I'm still responsible for what my nation does. I don't personally feel it's fair to say whites are racist. I don't agree with that wording, wherever you may have heard it. However, I know that the term is being used in order to confer legitimate responsibility to all the members of the white race for all the things that the white race has collectively done. Racism and white supremacy happen to be part of that legacy, just like the violence in Chicago will forever be a stain on the black community. We can argue about the role government plays on the economy in the inner city and how money is taken from one place to benefit another and schools are failing and all of that. And there are legitimate arguments on both sides. But as long as there are black people doing bad things they're never going to be judged individually. Not going to happen. They're black. I may wish they weren't but they are and the black community has a responsibility to do something about it; whether the police represent our agenda or not.

The first article you posted was a good article... written by a white person in reaction to L’Oreal model Munroe Bergdorf said which was:

When I stated that “all white people are racist”, I was addressing that fact that western society as a whole, is a SYSTEM rooted in white supremacy – designed to benefit, prioritise and protect white people before anyone of any other race. Unknowingly, white people are SOCIALISED to be racist from birth onwards. It is not something genetic. No one is born racist. We also live in a society where men are SOCIALISED to be sexist. Women are SOCIALISED to be submissive. Gay people are SOCIALISED to be ashamed of their sexuality due to heterosexual people’s homophobia. Cisgender people are SOCIALISED to be transphobic. We do not need to be this way. We are not born this way and we can learn to reject it. We are just socially conditioned to think this way from an early age. With the right education, empathy and open mindedness we can unlearn these socialisations and live a life where we don’t oppress others and see things from other people’s points of view.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201101/does-the-implicit-association-test-iat-really-measure-racial-prejudice
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/443723/implicit-bias-debunked-study-disputes-effects-unconscious-prejudice

These 2 articles deal mainly with the idea that a particular test can predict behavior. I agree with the authors myself. I do believe in conditioned behavior, responses, etc. however, testing them through a conscious action seems silly to me. Your conscious mind isn't exactly a slave to your subconscious. It can overrule many automatic reflexes based on what you consciously think the right answer is. If you're testing me on how many people I'm going to shoot wearing a hijab just the fact that I'm taking a test would help me target those people less because I'm trying to pass a test. Often in schools testing fails because teachers train students for the tests themselves which doesn't mean they truly have a grasp on the subject matter. The human brain works based on association. As a programmer it is impossible to convince me that we are not programmed by our experiences. There's no reason for children to have racist attitudes (and in this case the definition of racism is not the same as the one taught at Ohio State or the one in the Dr. Claude Anderson video I shared) except that they learn them from their parents and friends. It is inherited and passed on because whites wont stop reacting to what they see black people doing without applying what they see to an entire race. On the other hand, most of my fiance's son's exposure (who has lived with me for the past 2 years now) has unfortunately been the result of personal experiences. He gets into arguments with other kids and suddenly he's whatever slur they've heard and he reacts by using whatever he's heard.

But there is no BLM rhetoric that all white people are racists in ANY definition that expresses a thought that didn't already exist because of our interactions with whites. If it's new to you it is only because you were unaware it existed before. And if it shocks you then you should imagine our shock at the things we hear from whites who don't claim to be either white supremacists or racists. At the end of the day we're not going to solve this through various means of slander. We're going to solve it by taking responsibility for things that we don't necessarily want to see as being our problem.

OB1Shinobi wrote: That last post is why ive mostly withdrawn from this topic. I give specific talking points and wait for a reply, and when the reply comes it is very long and yet doesnt address anything ive brought up. I dont care about Bill Cosby. Once he admitted to buying roofies and putting them in womens drinks my mind was made up.. thats not a party tactic its a rape tactic so f**k bill cosby. Not because he is black but because he slipped rooffies into womens drinks to sexually assault them. And Im not afraid of people calling me a racist or thinking that I am a racist. If you think i am a racist that simply convinces me that you are a fool.

Yes, the police in America are out of control.

Warning: Spoiler!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcIDO-BzWkw

http://www.copwatch.org/

The people with the least amount of money and influence are the ones most vulnerable to abuse and the ones least likely to see justice when abused. Ive said this before and will say it again: the solution to racism is in the economic achievement and social integration of of blacks. Education and investment opportunities for ambitious and talented black people and increased representation of blacks in the police, in politics, and in the various core industries of our economy will result in an affluent and socially influential black population.

Rioting is not ok and running from the cops is not allowed. Communist inspired movements which seek to transpose the idea of the proletariat vs the bourgeoisie onto the American landscape through group vs group identity politics are not necessary or even healthy for our society

Nothing ive said so far has gotten a fair response so im not expecting much, but thats my position.

First, I apologize to you OB1Shinobi, but that reply was not in response to you at all. In fact, while I was writing it I didn't know your post even existed. Once I did see it I wrote a response to address what you said. These are obviously lengthy and therefore not quick responses. I apologize for that.

Secondly, if there is a view that this thread is one side vs another, I apologize to you if you got that impression from me. I actually think everyone has been wonderful in this thread. I think the idea that we should always judge success by how many people share our views isn't logical. Some of what I say is venting based on what I've heard, not just here, but from other sources. But I speak more here because my expectations of the people here are much higher. The people are here are generally more enlightened. Not perfect, just as I am not perfect; but more enlightened.

Thirdly, sometimes all we need to hear 'you' say is what you just said about police being out of control. The problem is that black people, not just me personally, are used to that "...but" and a lot of times it's what comes after ANY measure of agreement that is offensive to us. We go to sleep one day thinking we're protesting injustice and inequality and the next day we wake up to find our president telling us we're protesting the flag and the troops. Not only is this news to us but the problem is that it poisons the argument, ends conversations, and gives people justification to continue to ignore the problem by making the protest the new problem. This is the part I am the most sensitive to because it's like we cannot win to save our lives... literally... TO SAVE OUR LIVES.

Lastly, I agree 80% with your solution. I have personally been working within the economic empowerment side of things. But I can also tell you that a large part of the problem is envy and jealousy and fear. It was the same when workers unions first got started. The progress made by black people is only half the story. The other half is the resistance. The other half is white workers feeling displaced like the popular South Park chant "They took our jobs!" If you understand it, this sentiment is very real and is a result of white privilege. The idea that Tom should be guaranteed a job in this economy because he's a particular color is racist. If there's truly no difference between Tom and Jermaine as they were both born here then the job should go to the most qualified unless there is some other mitigating factor that should be considered; like if the company isn't hiring black people because the guy doing the actual hiring thinks black people are lazy. This, of course, comes from an attitude that some whites have, that after no longer being forced to do back breaking work all day and getting whipped if we did not reach quotas, that we feel entitled and are less productive. You, being of sound mind, probably find this view repugnant. Maybe you've never heard such a stereotype in your life. We have.

Obamacare was imperfect but the CBO said it was stable. The republicans ranted about how it was in a death spiral but instead of letting it die, Trump did what we knew he was going to do. He sabotaged it. The whole point of insurance is companies taking from as many healthy people as possible to cover their liability for the riskier pool. Relevance? Black people are often treated like Obamacare. It's not enough to say black people are this or that or, for some, believe themselves superior. They also use their position to sabotage and confirmation bias to justify individual decisions that, at scale, create massive problems. This is the part it seems like we get the most resistance on when it comes to believing our report. People, in general, would rather believe it's not happening and that we're all confused by mischievous leftwing indoctrination. Those who get abused the most don't have time to listen to republicans or democrats talk and they don't trust either one.

Bill Cosby didn't "roofie" anyone. This idea of cosby slipping pills into women's drinks who were, at the time, trying to get something from a relationship with him, is based on their allegations which have never been proven. This is why I brought up Bill Cosby. Because of the ease at which everyone assumed his guilt. He had literally no presumption of innocence. There are multiple events being conflated that involved consensual use of party drugs with accusations of women finding themselves asleep in his company. Most of them are simply not credible but we tend to overlook that. In fact, most of the women's stories haven't really been critically investigated. Constand's story has a lot of issues, but mainly the amount of contact that she had after the alleged assault.

Am I going to convince you he's innocent? Of course not. Your mind was already made up. The point was how easy it was for people to make up their minds on the strength of so many women coming out against him. And that was the whole point. It doesn't matter how many witnesses black people produce to prove injustice or how many black men freed from prison by new evidence. The majority of America tend to side with the police just like they side with the troops. You think the troops have never done anything morally wrong in foreign countries? I've heard it from them myself. There are bad soldiers and there are bad cops. And if we don't want the reputation of the whole to be brought down by the few then we need to make sure the few are always brought to justice.

Writing this took some time and effort and im tired and busy. I am not personally opposed to any individuals here. I will reply again when I am able but it may not be today.

JLSpinner wrote: I don't think generalizing every "extreme leftist movement" is a logical way to discuss this.

Its perfectly logical to distinguish between extremist groups and more moderate groups. Im GUESSING that you meant to say something like: "i dont think its fair to apply the label "extreme leftist movement" to every group that speaks out against racism", which would be a statement that i agree with.
Is BLM an extreme leftist group? Well, there are enough extreme leftists in the various BLM orgs. that its understandable for someone to think so. Heres an example:




The words of Michaela Brown, a spokeswoman for Baltimore Bloc, one of the group's partner organizations: "We seek radical transformation, not reactionary reform," said to TIME magazine.

BLM wants:
1. Reparations for All "Past and Continuing Harms" to the Black Community
(basically: free school, technical and vocational training, debt forgiveness, and a "guaranteed minimum livable income" check for all black people)


2. The End of the "War Against Black People"
(no more death penalty, no more having to post bail when arrested, no financial charges to be incurred when arrested, and the best part: " an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them."
There are some other things in there that i agree with although i dont know how to make them happen, such as addressing the privatization of prisons and the militarization of the police. But what i can tell you for sure based on the overall message is that BLM is NOT going to produce a practical solution to those issues.



3. Divestment from the institutions that criminalize, cage and harm black people; and investment in the education, health and safety of black people.
(cut police forces, release and expunge the records of everyone ever convicted of any drug trafficking charges or prostitution charges, and give them reparations for having been arrested and convicted, universal health care (including the guaranteed right to abortions), free college, "special protections" for queer and trans people, oh yeah and while youre at it, stop using fossil fuels and cut the military budget)



4. The Restructuring of the Economy to Produce "Economic Justice" for Blacks
Restructure the tax codes to "redistribute" American wealth to blacks. Basically give a bunch of money to all black people. End of our existing trade agreements and end of the Trans-Pacific partnership.



5. Complete Community Control
(the people being arrested get to fire the people arresting them)



6. Independent black political power and black self-determination in all areas of society.
(I have no idea how far they really want to take this but the terminology (and references to "political prisoners" and COINTELPRO) is suggestive of some kind of separatist end game aka Nation of Islam and Black Panther type stuff. "Black Separatism = blacks get their own country, either a designated part of USA or some other land somehwere else. In this aim the black racists and the white racists actually are on the same side, both want white and black separatism. Thats a possibility based on the language used in this point but they dont actually say that so...)


Sources

JLSpinner wrote: Yes there are people involved with BLM that are in fact racist. Yes non Caucasian people can be racist. Yes just because you are Caucasian doesn't mean you are racist. There is no evidence to support these absolute conditions. These views can and do hurt the cause.

There doesnt need to be evidence: its obvious. The mere fact that the White House is called the "WHITE House" proves it all.
THAT WAS SACRASM.. lol..
What i am saying is that the modern left has accepted irrational and racist ideology. You read ZealotX's reply -- racism USED TO MEAN "judging people by their race"... NOW it means "being white". Its not rational and its not just, and thats my point.

JLSpinner wrote: But that doesn't diminish the cause of you keep people accountable for their actions and don't project that on to others.

Im not sure what this sentence means but i agree that individuals should be judged as individuals and held accountable only for their own actions and ideas.

JLSpinner wrote: The same way many Caucasians grow angry when blamed for slavery or racism. The same way many peaceful Muslims get blamed for terrorism. Blaming everyone for the actions of a portion is not logical.

A movement is defined by its leadership... every nazi that fought in the war wasnt an evil person, but Hitler was an evil, crazy sonofabitch, and all the "good people" who fought for him gave him the ability to enact his evil onto the world and onto the Jews. If you had sorted through all of Hitlers talking points and stated aims, and especially if you had talked to all the everyday people who supported him, you would have found much that seemed reasonable and logical and even much you could agree with. But where was it heading all along?
Im not equating BLM with Hitler, im using the nazis as an example because they are a perfect example of the principle im referencing.

JLSpinner wrote: Look up the peaceful aspects of BLM that don't make the propaganda headlines. Check out the petitions and sit ins. The authorized protests and social media outreach groups. Check out the volunteers trying to fix the cities or raise money for the schools that are dying.

Ive addressed that i think

JLSpinner wrote: The media has become a business. The headlines are designed to sell, not inform. Unfortunately it's now our responsibility to dig deeper and search for the facts.

Including the ones which tell you how wonderful and benign and well meaning BLM is. Those are ALSO headlines, designed to sell. If you believe BLM has the right approach then feel free to be supportive of them in any way that you can. I agree with the basic aim of reducing racism (really reducing actual racism, not just disempowering white people). I agree with reforming the prison industry, ending the drug war, changing the financing rules of politics, and all kinds of other lofty changes BLM says they want. But as ive said, they are nested within a larger movement that i consider reprehensible.

Ultimately, my biggest complaint about them probably is simply that there doesnt seem to be a more rational and less divisive alternative. Many BLM mean well, but the movement in embedded within a nefarious ideology which has infected the left in the recent decade. It is the communist idea of class conflict being superimposed onto American society. The original idea was that civilization is a battle for power between the poor proletariat (worker) and the evil, exploitative bourgeois (the rich). That theory collapsed in the second world war, but the marxists, instead of admitting they were wrong, modified their theory and have been teaching it in western universities under the auspices of "social justice".. now we have an entire generation of people convinced that the entire of western civilization is one long, concerted effort by white men to oppress and exploit women, and all people of all other races.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX3EZCVj2XA

I literally give up.

I will never try to stand up for the rights of marginalized peoples again. Just because my skin isn't "dark" I'm racist?

You know what I have to say to that?

Thank you all for convincing me that whatever I can do will never be enough and that I shouldn't even TRY to talk about "racial" issues because I happen to be "white." Which is bull**** in and of itself for a couple of reasons which I'm not even going to bother to point out.

Count me out of further discussions on this topic or any other related to "race." (A cultural belief in something that doesn't even EXIST in reality. There is ONE race: the human race.)

OB1Shinobi wrote: Writing this took some time and effort and im tired and busy. I am not personally opposed to any individuals here. I will reply again when I am able but it may not be today.

JLSpinner wrote: I don't think generalizing every "extreme leftist movement" is a logical way to discuss this.

Its perfectly logical to distinguish between extremist groups and more moderate groups. Im GUESSING that you meant to say something like: "i dont think its fair to apply the label "extreme leftist movement" to every group that speaks out against racism", which would be a statement that i agree with.
Is BLM an extreme leftist group? Well, there are enough extreme leftists in the various BLM orgs. that its understandable for someone to think so. Heres an example:

Warning: Spoiler!

White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader

Some things I’m thinking about that should change (in that Southern, black grandmama voice):

1. White people, if you don’t have any descendants, will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably one that lives in generational poverty.

2. White people, if you’re inheriting property you intend to sell upon acceptance, give it to a black or brown family. You’re bound to make that money in some other white privileged way.

3. If you are a developer or realty owner of multi-family housing, build a sustainable complex in a black or brown blighted neighborhood and let black and brown people live in it for free.

4. White people, if you can afford to downsize, give up the home you own to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

5. White people, if any of the people you intend to leave your property to are racists assholes, change the will, and will your property to a black or brown family. Preferably a family from generational poverty.

6. White people, re-budget your monthly so you can donate to black funds for land purchasing.

7. White people, especially white women (because this is yaw specialty — Nosey Jenny and Meddling Kathy), get a racist fired. Yaw know what the fuck they be saying. You are complicit when you ignore them. Get your boss fired cause they racist too.

8. Backing up No. 7, this should be easy but all those sheetless Klan, Nazi’s and Other lil’ dick-white men will all be returning to work. Get they ass fired. Call the police even: they look suspicious.

9. OK, backing up No. 8, if any white person at your work, or as you enter in spaces and you overhear a white person praising the actions from yesterday, first, get a pic. Get their name and more info. Hell, find out where they work — Get Them Fired. But certainly address them, and, if you need to, you got hands: use them.

10. Commit to two things: Fighting white supremacy where and how you can (this doesn’t mean taking up knitting, unless you’re making scarves for black and brown kids in need), and funding black and brown people and their work.

The words of Michaela Brown, a spokeswoman for Baltimore Bloc, one of the group's partner organizations: "We seek radical transformation, not reactionary reform," said to TIME magazine.

BLM wants:
1. Reparations for All "Past and Continuing Harms" to the Black Community
(basically: free school, technical and vocational training, debt forgiveness, and a "guaranteed minimum livable income" check for all black people)

Warning: Spoiler!

We demand reparations for past and continuing harms. The government, responsible corporations and other institutions that have profited off of the harm they have inflicted on Black people — from colonialism to slavery through food and housing redlining, mass incarceration, and surveillance — must repair the harm done. This includes:

Reparations for the systemic denial of access to high quality educational opportunities in the form of full and free access for all Black people (including undocumented and currently and formerly incarcerated people) to lifetime education including: free access and open admissions to public community colleges and universities, technical education (technology, trade and agricultural), educational support programs, retroactive forgiveness of student loans, and support for lifetime learning programs.
Reparations for the continued divestment from, discrimination toward and exploitation of our communities in the form of a guaranteed minimum livable income for all Black people, with clearly articulated corporate regulations.
Reparations for the wealth extracted from our communities through environmental racism, slavery, food apartheid, housing discrimination and racialized capitalism in the form of corporate and government reparations focused on healing ongoing physical and mental trauma, and ensuring our access and control of food sources, housing and land.
Reparations for the cultural and educational exploitation, erasure, and extraction of our communities in the form of mandated public school curriculums that critically examine the political, economic, and social impacts of colonialism and slavery, and funding to support, build, preserve, and restore cultural assets and sacred sites to ensure the recognition and honoring of our collective struggles and triumphs.
Legislation at the federal and state level that requires the United States to acknowledge the lasting impacts of slavery, establish and execute a plan to address those impacts. This includes the immediate passage of H.R.40, the “Commission to Study Reparation Proposals for African-Americans Act” or subsequent versions which call for reparations remedies.

2. The End of the "War Against Black People"
(no more death penalty, no more having to post bail when arrested, no financial charges to be incurred when arrested, and the best part: " an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them."
There are some other things in there that i agree with although i dont know how to make them happen, such as addressing the privatization of prisons and the militarization of the police. But what i can tell you for sure based on the overall message is that BLM is NOT going to produce a practical solution to those issues.

Warning: Spoiler!

An immediate end to the criminalization and dehumanization of Black youth across all areas of society including, but not limited to; our nation’s justice and education systems, social service agencies, and media and pop culture. This includes an end to zero-tolerance school policies and arrests of students, the removal of police from schools, and the reallocation of funds from police and punitive school discipline practices to restorative services.
An end to capital punishment.
An end to money bail, mandatory fines, fees, court surcharges and “defendant funded” court proceedings.
An end to the use of past criminal history to determine eligibility for housing, education, licenses, voting, loans, employment, and other services and needs.
An end to the war on Black immigrants including the repeal of the 1996 crime and immigration bills, an end to all deportations, immigrant detention, and Immigration and Custom Enforcement (ICE) raids, and mandated legal representation in immigration court.
An end to the war on Black trans, queer and gender nonconforming people including their addition to anti-discrimination civil rights protections to ensure they have full access to employment, health, housing and education.
An end to the mass surveillance of Black communities, and the end to the use of technologies that criminalize and target our communities (including IMSI catchers, drones, body cameras, and predictive policing software).
The demilitarization of law enforcement, including law enforcement in schools and on college campuses.
An immediate end to the privatization of police, prisons, jails, probation, parole, food, phone and all other criminal justice related services.
Until we achieve a world where cages are no longer used against our people we demand an immediate change in conditions and an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them. This includes the end of solitary confinement, the end of shackling of pregnant people, access to quality healthcare, and effective measures to address the needs of our youth, queer, gender nonconforming and trans families.

3. Divestment from the institutions that criminalize, cage and harm black people; and investment in the education, health and safety of black people.
(cut police forces, release and expunge the records of everyone ever convicted of any drug trafficking charges or prostitution charges, and give them reparations for having been arrested and convicted, universal health care (including the guaranteed right to abortions), free college, "special protections" for queer and trans people, oh yeah and while youre at it, stop using fossil fuels and cut the military budget)

Warning: Spoiler!

A reallocation of funds at the federal, state and local level from policing and incarceration (JAG, COPS, VOCA) to long-term safety strategies such as education, local restorative justice services, and employment programs.
The retroactive decriminalization, immediate release and record expungement of all drug related offenses and prostitution, and reparations for the devastating impact of the “war on drugs” and criminalization of prostitution, including a reinvestment of the resulting savings and revenue into restorative services, mental health services, job programs and other programs supporting those impacted by the sex and drug trade.
Real, meaningful, and equitable universal health care that guarantees: proximity to nearby comprehensive health centers, culturally competent services for all people, specific services for queer, gender nonconforming, and trans people, full bodily autonomy, full reproductive services, mental health services, paid parental leave, and comprehensive quality child and elder care.
A constitutional right at the state and federal level to a fully-funded education which includes a clear articulation of the right to: a free education for all, special protections for queer and trans students, wrap around services, social workers, free health services (including reproductive body autonomy), a curriculum that acknowledges and addresses students’ material and cultural needs, physical activity and recreation, high quality food, free daycare, and freedom from unwarranted search, seizure or arrest.
A divestment from industrial multinational use of fossil fuels and investment in community- based sustainable energy solutions.
A cut in military expenditures and a reallocation of those funds to invest in domestic infrastructure and community well-being.

4. The Restructuring of the Economy to Produce "Economic Justice" for Blacks
Restructure the tax codes to "redistribute" American wealth to blacks. Basically give a bunch of money to all black people. End of our existing trade agreements and end of the Trans-Pacific partnership.

Warning: Spoiler!

A progressive restructuring of tax codes at the local, state, and federal levels to ensure a radical and sustainable redistribution of wealth.
Federal and state job programs that specifically target the most economically marginalized Black people, and compensation for those involved in the care economy. Job programs must provide a living wage and encourage support for local workers centers, unions, and Black-owned businesses which are accountable to the community.
A right to restored land, clean air, clean water and housing and an end to the exploitative privatization of natural resources — including land and water. We seek democratic control over how resources are preserved, used and distributed and do so while honoring and respecting the rights of our Indigenous family.
The right for workers to organize in public and private sectors especially in “On Demand Economy” jobs.
Restore the Glass-Steagall Act to break up the large banks, and call for the National Credit Union Administration and the US Department of the Treasury to change policies and practices around regulation, reporting and consolidation to allow for the continuation and creation of black banks, small and community development credit unions, insurance companies and other financial institutions.
An end to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and a renegotiation of all trade agreements to prioritize the interests of workers and communities.
Through tax incentives, loans and other government directed resources, support the development of cooperative or social economy networks to help facilitate trade across and in Black communities globally. All aid in the form of grants, loans or contracts to help facilitate this must go to Black led or Black supported networks and organizations as defined by the communities.
Financial support of Black alternative institutions including policy that subsidizes and offers low-interest, interest-free or federally guaranteed low-interest loans to promote the development of cooperatives (food, residential, etc.), land trusts and culturally responsive health infrastructures that serve the collective needs of our communities.
Protections for workers in industries that are not appropriately regulated including domestic workers, farm workers, and tipped workers, and for workers — many of whom are Black women and incarcerated people— who have been exploited and remain unprotected. This includes the immediate passage at the Federal and state level of the Domestic Workers Bill of Rights and extension of worker protections to incarcerated people.

5. Complete Community Control
(the people being arrested get to fire the people arresting them)

Warning: Spoiler!

We demand a world where those most impacted in our communities control the laws, institutions, and policies that are meant to serve us – from our schools to our local budgets, economies, police departments, and our land – while recognizing that the rights and histories of our Indigenous family must also be respected. This includes:

Direct democratic community control of local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies, ensuring that communities most harmed by destructive policing have the power to hire and fire officers, determine disciplinary action, control budgets and policies, and subpoena relevant agency information.
An end to the privatization of education and real community control by parents, students and community members of schools including democratic school boards and community control of curriculum, hiring, firing and discipline policies.
Participatory budgeting at the local, state and federal level.

6. Independent black political power and black self-determination in all areas of society.
(I have no idea how far they really want to take this but the terminology (and references to "political prisoners" and COINTELPRO) is suggestive of some kind of separatist end game aka Nation of Islam and Black Panther type stuff. "Black Separatism = blacks get their own country, either a designated part of USA or some other land somehwere else. In this aim the black racists and the white racists actually are on the same side, both want white and black separatism. Thats a possibility based on the language used in this point but they dont actually say that so...)

Warning: Spoiler!

We demand independent Black political power and Black self-determination in all areas of society. We envision a remaking of the current U.S. political system in order to create a real democracy where Black people and all marginalized people can effectively exercise full political power. This includes:

An end to the criminalization of Black political activity including the immediate release of all political prisoners and an end to the repression of political parties.
Public financing of elections and the end of money controlling politics through ending super PACs and unchecked corporate donations.
Election protection, electoral expansion and the right to vote for all people including: full access, guarantees, and protections of the right to vote for all people through universal voter registration, automatic voter registration, pre-registration for 16-year-olds, same day voter registration, voting day holidays, Online Voter Registration (OVR), enfranchisement of formerly and presently incarcerated people, local and state resident voting for undocumented people, and a ban on any disenfranchisement laws.
Full access to technology including net neutrality and universal access to the internet without discrimination and full representation for all.
Protection and increased funding for Black institutions including Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCU’s), Black media and cultural, political and social formations.
An End to the Criminalization of Black Political Activity Including the Immediate Release of All Political Prisoners and an End to the Repression of Political Parties
What is the problem?

While the criminal justice system has managed to create a pipeline from schools to prisons for Black and Brown communities, it has also been used as a tool of the state to delegitimize and neutralize people’s movements throughout history.
The criminalization of freedom movements and activists has resulted in the incarceration of hundreds of people, many of whom are recognized as legitimate freedom fighters. Black communities have been disproportionately targeted by the state and have become political prisoners incarcerated in local, state and federal prisons. The FBI’s Counter Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO) outlined the purpose, objectives, methods and tools used to criminalize freedom movements.
Today, direct victims of COINTELPRO (and similar law enforcement initiatives) remain exiled and incarcerated, while indirectly Black communities remain under surveillance by all levels of law enforcement with the intention of preventing the growth of another nationwide movement.
The tradition of surveillance and harassment of activists and freedom movements, has fostered fear, mistrust and suspicion in movement spaces that would otherwise function effectively.
What does this solution do?

We are calling for the release of all political prisoners held in the U.S. and the removal of legitimate freedom fighters from the International Terrorists list. Additionally, we call on Congress to hold hearings on the impact of COINTELPRO as the Church Committee hearings in 1975 did not offer remedies to individuals and communities negatively impacted by this government initiative.

Sources

Warning: Spoiler!

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/black-lives-matter-releases-policy-agenda-n620966

http://www.dailywire.com/news/8002/how-radical-left-black-lives-matter-heres-full-james-barrett#

http://time.com/4433679/black-lives-matter-platform-demands/

https://policy.m4bl.org/platform/

JLSpinner wrote: Yes there are people involved with BLM that are in fact racist. Yes non Caucasian people can be racist. Yes just because you are Caucasian doesn't mean you are racist. There is no evidence to support these absolute conditions. These views can and do hurt the cause.

There doesnt need to be evidence: its obvious. The mere fact that the White House is called the "WHITE House" proves it all.
THAT WAS SACRASM.. lol..
What i am saying is that the modern left has accepted irrational and racist ideology. You read ZealotX's reply -- racism USED TO MEAN "judging people by their race"... NOW it means "being white". Its not rational and its not just, and thats my point.

JLSpinner wrote: But that doesn't diminish the cause of you keep people accountable for their actions and don't project that on to others.

Im not sure what this sentence means but i agree that individuals should be judged as individuals and held accountable only for their own actions and ideas.

JLSpinner wrote: The same way many Caucasians grow angry when blamed for slavery or racism. The same way many peaceful Muslims get blamed for terrorism. Blaming everyone for the actions of a portion is not logical.

A movement is defined by its leadership... every nazi that fought in the war wasnt an evil person, but Hitler was an evil, crazy sonofabitch, and all the "good people" who fought for him gave him the ability to enact his evil onto the world and onto the Jews. If you had sorted through all of Hitlers talking points and stated aims, and especially if you had talked to all the everyday people who supported him, you would have found much that seemed reasonable and logical and even much you could agree with. But where was it heading all along?
Im not equating BLM with Hitler, im using the nazis as an example because they are a perfect example of the principle im referencing.

JLSpinner wrote: Look up the peaceful aspects of BLM that don't make the propaganda headlines. Check out the petitions and sit ins. The authorized protests and social media outreach groups. Check out the volunteers trying to fix the cities or raise money for the schools that are dying.

Ive addressed that i think

JLSpinner wrote: The media has become a business. The headlines are designed to sell, not inform. Unfortunately it's now our responsibility to dig deeper and search for the facts.

Including the ones which tell you how wonderful and benign and well meaning BLM is. Those are ALSO headlines, designed to sell. If you believe BLM has the right approach then feel free to be supportive of them in any way that you can. I agree with the basic aim of reducing racism (really reducing actual racism, not just disempowering white people). I agree with reforming the prison industry, ending the drug war, changing the financing rules of politics, and all kinds of other lofty changes BLM says they want. But as ive said, they are nested within a larger movement that i consider reprehensible.

Ultimately, my biggest complaint about them probably is simply that there doesnt seem to be a more rational and less divisive alternative. Many BLM mean well, but the movement in embedded within a nefarious ideology which has infected the left in the recent decade. It is the communist idea of class conflict being superimposed onto American society. The original idea was that civilization is a battle for power between the poor proletariat (worker) and the evil, exploitative bourgeois (the rich). That theory collapsed in the second world war, but the marxists, instead of admitting they were wrong, modified their theory and have been teaching it in western universities under the auspices of "social justice".. now we have an entire generation of people convinced that the entire of western civilization is one long, concerted effort by white men to oppress and exploit women, and all people of all other races.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bX3EZCVj2XA

I don't particularly disagree with anything you said. I don't agree with every stance they hold. I do agree though that we need change.

Lykeios wrote: I literally give up.

I will never try to stand up for the rights of marginalized peoples again. Just because my skin isn't "dark" I'm racist?

You know what I have to say to that?

Warning: Spoiler!

**** that bull****.

Thank you all for convincing me that whatever I can do will never be enough and that I shouldn't even TRY to talk about "racial" issues because I happen to be "white." Which is bull**** in and of itself for a couple of reasons which I'm not even going to bother to point out.

Count me out of further discussions on this topic or any other related to "race." (A cultural belief in something that doesn't even EXIST in reality. There is ONE race: the human race.)

I believe that he was being ironic by using viewpoints of others involved in the movement.

JLSpinner wrote:

Lykeios wrote: I literally give up.

I will never try to stand up for the rights of marginalized peoples again. Just because my skin isn't "dark" I'm racist?

You know what I have to say to that?

Warning: Spoiler!

**** that bull****.

Thank you all for convincing me that whatever I can do will never be enough and that I shouldn't even TRY to talk about "racial" issues because I happen to be "white." Which is bull**** in and of itself for a couple of reasons which I'm not even going to bother to point out.

Count me out of further discussions on this topic or any other related to "race." (A cultural belief in something that doesn't even EXIST in reality. There is ONE race: the human race.)

I believe that he was being ironic by using viewpoints of others involved in the movement.

Oh, I was aware of that. I wasn't actually mad at OB1. I am pissed off at the attitude I've seen from people I try to respect and support in their various struggles (African-American, "white", Hispanic, Asian, whoever they are). I can't do **** to change the "system" and if people are going to assume crap about me because of something I said (first off that I'm "caucasian") then, like I said, count me out.

ZealotX wrote: First, I agree with a lot of what you're saying. However, when people say "white people have the power" or something to that effect what it means is that white people are in the majority in a representative democracy. Therefore, they have the greatest influence on society and on government. It doesn't mean that white people have group meetings and decide as a group to vote for white issues or vote against black issues. It seems means that "collectively", the majority, by voting for their own issues, and using their political capital/pressure for their own issues, it creates real power that positively affects them and often negatively affects the minority.

That is no excuse, for then its just sloppy speech and misleading, if its not intended to be racist. It might not experienced as racist by the offender because they are not the victim of the 'slop', but it can be taken as racist by those that are. Defeating racism is everyones responsibility. If a side to a racist argument discard the same thing they demand they become not only hypocrits, but as part of their own problem because they will be inflaming a response in kind. Don't give into it, be better then them, and certainly don''t do the same thing to spread it further as that is akin to working 'for' the racists on the other side!!

ZealotX wrote: There are many African Americans who believe ... snip... That's why they do it.

No doubt racism exists, and has existed, and is really harmful to individual and society, its permeation are terrible and ongoing in various vulnerable groups around the world, not limited to race nor blacks, but responsibility is not asserted by the word count possible in generating an argument - responsibility needs to be based on accuracy and relevance, and if people are talking about taking action in that regard then if it is not based on accuracy and relevance, then it is based on something else...... I think the argument here is elements of BLM, including in their leadership, and wading in inappropriate concepts towards inappropriate conduct, and what makes it inappropriate is not 'racism' merely because it disagrees with a platform claiming to be anti-racist.

ZealotX wrote: Accuracy? Too often the "desire to be accurate" allows cops to get away with murder. Accurate is a relatively subjective concept.

No its not. What makes it accurate is its objectivity. The problem you might be thinking of is when objectivity is lost in process, as in reality conditions cannot be controlled sufficiently to allow objective measures to always be applied where needed when needed. Indeed it is a function in the conduct of crime for surprise to be exerted upon a target in such a way as to protect the offender by avoiding exactly those measures. It does not mean the system is 'racist' if racism occurs within a system, it might just mean the system is being abused by racists. What is clear is that there are weaknesses in the system, but there are right ways and wrong ways to fix things, and usually doing it the wrong way is not only stopping progress but going backwards.

And it's a natural part of 'the system' to have controls to avoid misuse and abuse (else it wouldn't grow with an element of conservation). But human nature seems to seek out advantage in areas of a system which might offer it, where going outside the system rules seem attractive - and indeed the larger a system gets, the more of these will exist. Such that there are entire government agencies dedicated to rooting out abuse of the system in various parts of the system. That same phenomena will occur in smaller systems throughout society as grow occurs............. and half the time it fails and the wrong people end up in power until they make such a mess that they get found out. It happens all the time, but I'd say its a natural attribute of a growing complex system. Your either fixing it, or breaking it - and even ignoring it is the later.

ZealotX wrote: Bill Cosby didn't "roofie" anyone.

How do you know that? Being able to create 'a' narrative to defend Bill Cosby is not the same thing as 'the' narrative of what actually happened. As I said earlier in another post, accuracy should be the goal, not comfort.

ZealotX wrote: So what is racism?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi9imppcCUc

Racism is a competitive relationship that is power based. It is confused for not liking someone because of their skin color because it has race in the name. Many black people don't even know what racism is. So occasionally you'll have a few trying to educate others.

So when they say "black people can't be racist", please do not get confused. They're not saying that black people cannot racially profile, engage in racial stereotypes, hate or dislike based on race, or be prejudicial or discriminate based on race. These are different concepts that people generally do not understand and are not mutually exclusive.

Because "racist" has come to be such an emotionally charged word it is quite understandable that no one wants to be called a racist. Even some of the white protestors with the tiki torches have said they didn't want to be identified as racist; they are just "pro-white".

When I was young I used to think that a racist was someone who thought their race was superior to others. But again, this is not the definition of racism held by everyone and the definition I was given as a child was really the same over simplified mess that informs most people.

Racism doesn't mean that you think your race is the "master race". It really just means that you are part of a system, conscious or unconscious, that collectively maintains "white supremacy".

All in my opinion of course, and I'm not expert but I have had quite a bit of exposure to anti-discrimination policy around the term of the century.

Basically, nah, he is wrong

I'd say he is confusing the effects of racism perpetuating through a system as racism. The effects from groups of racist decisions is only a group effect when the group identifies with those actions - ie it does not become a racist system until the racists rule the system. Otherwise its a system with racists. But majority does not equate rule, it just means they have the most power to exert rule when asked. What rules the system is the rules, and their enforcement, which goes back to that objective process...

I'd suggest he is wrong about history as well, as abuse of power can be seated in various things including 'difference' and it seems silly to suggest that it wouldn't to me... since it would be natural to fear what is different, a threat, or vulnerable. When that fear is held with those in power, then that power can be abused to control that fear. Interestingly history has lots of examples of the most successful societies being the ones which were most inclusive of difference (within its society), eg the Roman Empire, and you'd think that would have informed past and present generations more but its really only recently that information has become so accessible that there is no excuse for ignorance in people claiming to be experts.

Are you posting these demands to make BLM sound extremist?

I can understand why someone might have a kneejerk reaction to some of these points but you need to read to see the logic behind the demand and understand why it isn't crazy.

At the same time, demands are typically negotiated. Which means if you're making demands it's better to shoot for the moon so you can compromise somewhere in the middle.

BLM wants:
1. Reparations for All "Past and Continuing Harms" to the Black Community
(basically: free school, technical and vocational training, debt forgiveness, and a "guaranteed minimum livable income" check for all black people)

With all due respect, I don't think the actual demand is presented as you describe. There is no debt forgiveness, for example, that I saw. It's talking about how higher education produces debt. We live in a society where the cost of higher education is much higher than it needs to be. It's artificially inflated and many schools are much more expensive seemingly as a means of keeping out the lower class. Imo, this is not necessarily racist but rather discrimination based on class.

Also, UBI (universal basic income), is not a new concept but it is untested. Finland is not a good example as explained in this article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/20/opinion/finland-universal-basic-income.html

The idea, if done right, would effectively end poverty. At the same time, great minds like Elon Musk (a personal hero of mine), said that automation would force universal income. I fully appreciate that the idea seems ridiculous now. We're used to very slow change even though Trump was voted in to create radical change that would benefit his base (low income whites). But such a radical solution for low income blacks would be crazy. Trust me, black people already know reparations will never happen. That's why I think the goal is to try to push more for education, similar to what Bernie Sanders and Jill Stein proposed.

Universal basic income (UBI) is becoming respectable. Less than a decade ago, its principal supporters were weed-smoking hippies and Star Trek aficionados: “serious people” either laughed or sneered at it. But now, it counts among its supporters a growing number of top economists, entrepreneurs and financiers. Governments around the world are evaluating its use, and some are embarking on pilot studies. Businesses are partnering with not-for-profit organizations to conduct serious research into the costs and benefits of UBI.

And now, the IMF has joined the party. In its latest Fiscal Monitor, it says UBI could reduce income inequality and protect people affected by technological change and globalization.

Additionally, as I may get into later, these things could be paid for by taking money out of the judicial system. Crime and poverty are closely related.

2. The End of the "War Against Black People"
(no more death penalty, no more having to post bail when arrested, no financial charges to be incurred when arrested, and the best part: " an end to all jails, detention centers, youth facilities and prisons as we know them."
There are some other things in there that i agree with although i dont know how to make them happen, such as addressing the privatization of prisons and the militarization of the police. But what i can tell you for sure based on the overall message is that BLM is NOT going to produce a practical solution to those issues.

The Vera Institute of Justice released a study in 2012 that found the aggregate cost of prisons in 2010 in the 40 states that participated was $39 billion. The annual average taxpayer cost in these states was $31,286 per inmate. New York State was the most expensive, with an average cost of $60,000 per prison inmate.

One of my favorite reggae artists said this in a song. Please listen to the words. We can have a conversation about excuses afterwards if you want, but right now, I just want you to hear him speaking for the poor and the powerless so you can understand where a lot of the crime comes from and understand that if you solve these problems you wouldn't need so many jails and prisons. In NY it costs $60,000 per prison inmate. I'm not saying we don't need these things at all. What I'm suggesting is that we're investing in the wrong way. But the reason we invest in incarceration is because it makes money for private investors.

Bounty Killa...

Look into my eyes, tell me what you see?
Can you feel my pain? am I your enemy?
Give us a better way, things are really bad,
The only friend I know is this gun I have.
Listen to my voice, this is not a threat
Now you see the nine are you worried yet?
You've been talking 'bout' you want the war to cease
But when you show us hope, we will show you peace.

Verse 1

Look into my mind, can you see the wealth?
Can you tell that I want to help myself?
But if it happen that I stick you for your ring
Don't be mad at me it's a survival ting.
Look into my heart, I can feel your fear
Take another look can you hold my stare?
Why are you afraid of my hungry face?
Or is it this thing bulging in my waist?

Chorus

Verse 2

Look into my life, can you see my kids?
Let me ask you this,do you know what hungry is?
Well in this part of town, survival is my will
For you to stay alive you've got to rob and kill.
Look into my house would you live in there?
Look me in the eyes and tell me that you care,
Well I've made up my mind to end up in the morgue
Right now I'd rather die, cause man a live like dog.

Look down on my shoes, can you see my toes?
The struggle that we live nobody really knows
Stop and ask yourself, would you live like that?
and if you had to then, wouldn't you bus gun shot?
Look into the schools, tell me how you feel?
You want the kids to learn without a proper meal
Den what you have in place to keep them out of wrong?
If they drop out of school dem a go bus dem gun.


Look, I can never advocate criminal activity. However, what I can stress to you is that we are products largely of our environment. One of our esteemed members talked about getting off the bus at the wrong stop, in the wrong part of town, and being prepared to kill in order to defend himself. That sounds crazy to me but I can empathize with his situation. He pulled out a gun to scare people away who we do not know what they would have done to him. I chastised him a bit over his willingness to kill. Maybe I shouldn't have. However, when I think about the people who grow up there, who see violence everyday, who see a system where the powerful seem to be protected, where safety means being part of a gang, and when your opportunities are limited by your education... it should remove all surprise that many of these youth are also willing to kill. No one seems to cares about them. And eventually, they stop caring about themselves.

And all I'm saying is that we need real solutions to the ROOT CAUSE, which is poverty caused by a lack of access to capital and a lack of access to education (ACCESS & OPPORTUNITY) instead of pumping more and more money into dealing with the SYMPTOMS of drugs and gang violence. Why these solutions sound so crazy is because people think about the financial cost of helping people and for many people, it's too much and those people don't deserve it. How much are these lives worth?

How much do these lives matter?