Joseph Campbell is awful

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Trisskar wrote: This is understandable and ligitimate. Back in the day and in most myths that is the role of a female. It is rare upon rare to have a female hero, it is only just recently that female hero's are so pushed for popularity these days. And the hero's journey monomyth as it is now is easily used and followed by our female heros.

Actually there are a myriad of ancient heroine and strong female lead character myths. In fact it was the norm before Patriarchal warrior clans destroyed much of the ancient stories and practices by replacing them or modifying them with male figures. However many survived. There are tons of ancient heroine stories of the Goddesses like Artemis, Tiamat, Hel, Bastet, White Buffalo Calf Woman, Freya. Also there were the Amazons, Lilith, Eve, Atalanta, Hua Mulan, The Valkyrie - even real life figures like Joan of Arc of which legend has formed around. The list goes on and many of these legendary heroines have been downplayed over the centuries because of emphasis on male counterparts.

And every single one of them follows the Heros Journey format. And nearly all of them are in the "New" ages save one or two of which are the rare cases i spoke of

Okay, try not to be offended, I'm not going to offer you "niceties" like the others, but instead offer you my honesty on your statement, with all the kindness possible for addressing such a disrespectful rant.

If you are having difficulties with the IP material, it is probably best you consult with the clergy or another member INSTEAD of opting to just publically disrespect the core philosophy source for the Temple right in the middle of its "online hallowed halls".

You do understand that your tirade complaining that you hate Campbell in the TOTJO IP is like entering Christian seminary and then complaining that you don't like JC in the Bible?

The idea of The Force originates with the concepts of the "i" Campbell as experienced through the "i" Lucas. If the "i" you are being this time around doesn't like it, then don't do it and go find something else that "i" as you this time around does like. Simple as can be.

From my reading of your rant, it seems to me that you are having issues with self and simply cannot get past ego while trying to complete this portion of the IP, since all you've listed is what is offensive to you personally...as if the Temple of the Jedi Order Initiate Programme was here just to suit you personally.

Pardon me, "i" have to go laugh with "I" and IT for a moment.

As a retired college instructor "i" will leave you with this advice: If you don't like the studies THAT YOU YOURSELF SIGNED ON FOR either try harder to understand what is blocking YOU or find something else to study. Lengthy manifestos on why you hate your homework are childish and don't have ANY place in ANY learning environment beyond first grade.

As your peer in the IP "i" will remind you of the 21 Maxims and that "A Jedi is unencumbered by bias or personal interest." and your rant is filled with nothing but bias and personal interest.

But the i/I/IT will just continue to laugh because your error here is equally entertaining as it is irritating because it was done in complete ignore-ance of anything other than yourself as just another "i" offshoot of the big "I" of "we" and you've missed the whole point in the first place.

Campbell is the core because his monomyth is THE thing that brings together ALL the religions under one roof for discussion of their similarities instead of their differences. That you managed to bring "difference" that is somehow also "offended" to this all is utterly amazing AND a true testimony to the ego of humanity and its blindness to reality which the IP and Jedism are intended to correct...

...and i/I/IT finds this to be hilarious.

May The Force be with you. If you don't conquer ego soon you're gonna really need it whence you arrive upon the lessons of Watts.

Trisskar wrote:
And every single one of them follows the Heros Journey format. And nearly all of them are in the "New" ages save one or two of which are the rare cases i spoke of

No they dont. While some may have elements of it many do not. LOL what are you calling "new" ages? How are the heros journey ages before many of these? In fact many of the heroine stories are way before more commonly known hero stories.

Awesome topic. I enjoyed Campbell and really dislike Watts, but my personal reactions to them are moot. The reason i feel neither of them deserve a central place in the IP (which is related to why i chose not to pursue the IP for my own develpment) is that at the end of going through all that they offer id say the best assessment of their work is "SO WHAT?!"

People need to know how to take proper care of themselves (in all the ways this can imply) and how to develop and maintain healthy relationships with their families, lovers, friends, coworkers, neighbors, and communities. We need help deciding what to do with our lives, in the practical sense. We have to know how to develop our sense of self respect, how to choose our careers or roles in life, how to cultivate courage so we can choose to do the right thing when there are immediate personal consequences for it. How to stand up for ourselves when we're faced when someone pushes us around and how to interact with people without taking everything as a personal insult. And a thousand other, real life difficulties that I feel that JC and Watts fail to offer any (or lets say "enough") direct practical insight into.

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steamboat28 wrote: Campbell's not awful, he's just wrong. Just like Freud and Darwin were wildly mistaken, but what they got right still laid foundations for the next waves of research.

I dont wish to derail this topic but i cant help but reply to this.... ive never encountered anyone (who was scientifically credible) who said Darwin was "wildly mistaken". Could you elaborate on this or point me in the right direction? My understanding is that evolution, adaptation, and natural and sexual selection are still the bedrock explanations for the development and diversity of earth based life?

OB1Shinobi wrote:

steamboat28 wrote: Campbell's not awful, he's just wrong. Just like Freud and Darwin were wildly mistaken, but what they got right still laid foundations for the next waves of research.

I dont wish to derail this topic but i cant help but reply to this.... ive never encountered anyone (who was scientifically credible) who said Darwin was "wildly mistaken". Could you elaborate on this or point me in the right direction? My understanding is that evolution, adaptation, and natural and sexual selection are still the bedrock explanations for the development and diversity of earth based life?

Oh Im so glad you said it because I was dying to but found the restraint somewhere, somehow!! lol. I am curious as well!

I'm going to come back to this with a more detailed reply, as this prompted a lot more discussion than I anticipated (which is delightful), but I'd just like to note that the tone of the thread is starting to get a little.., combative; and I left my lightsaber at home. Kindness and butterflies folks, kindness and butterflies.

OBI1Shinobi - That is being an adult. I definitely see a need for it, but teaching "Life101" wasn't what I was looking for when I came here....

PaschalVehicle wrote: I'm going to come back to this with a more detailed reply, as this prompted a lot more discussion than I anticipated (which is delightful), but I'd just like to note that the tone of the thread is starting to get a little.., combative; and I left my lightsaber at home. Kindness and butterflies folks, kindness and butterflies.

Dont let Debra discourage you. Unlike a Christian church this is a place of open and honest discussion where you have every right to criticize anything you feel is in error as much as you like. I did not consider your comments a rant but an introduction to a potentially very interesting discussion!

rugadd wrote: OBI1Shinobi - That is being an adult. I definitely see a need for it, but teaching "Life101" wasn't what I was looking for when I came here....

Well i suppose im walking right into it but ok, I'll bite: what were you looking for when you originally came here? And for that matter, what do you feel this place is supposed to offer?

OB1Shinobi wrote:

rugadd wrote: OBI1Shinobi - That is being an adult. I definitely see a need for it, but teaching "Life101" wasn't what I was looking for when I came here....

Well i suppose im walking right into it but ok, I'll bite: what were you looking for?

I can't speak for others, but for me, I was looking for something that might help me discover the meaning behind all of those things you mentioned. I have a family and a lover and a career, but why? What is the purpose behind getting up each morning and cultivating these relationships and completing these adult tasks? I had gotten very good at completing the tasks put before me as I was supposed to do as an adult, but I was left with a somewhat empty feeling. I have money and stuff, but to what end? I needed spirituality in my life, and I've found that here.

I'm not going to lie, being told I might die of cancer soon also motivated me to search for a deeper meaning to life beside surviving and getting promoted at work.