Programs and Visions

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11 years 5 months ago #80422 by
Programs and Visions was created by
"If the world is saved, it will not be by old minds with new programs but by new minds with no programs at all...."

Saving the world can have many meanings so which are we trying to focus on? The globe itself? obviously not, but also not the biological world - the world of life. Even at our lifestyles worst and most destructive we wouldn't render our planet lifeless. So specifically the salvation we are talking about is Saving the Earth as a Human Habitat.
At present its estimated that as many as two hundred species a day are becoming extinct thanks to us. It is obvious if we continue to kill off our neighbors at this rate, There will inevitably come a day when one of those 200 species is our own...


Old minds- 'How do we stop there bad things from happening to us?'
New minds- 'How do we make things the way we want them to be?'



I'll rephrase it. If we go on as we are, we're not going to be around much longer - few decades, a century at most. If we're still around a thousand years from now it is because we stopped going on as we are.



"A man was found sitting in the middle of the desert in a contraptions made of rocks, bits of lumber, and old brown tires, which he was busily 'steering' as if it were actually a vehicle in motion.
When asked what he was doing, then man replied 'Driving home.'
'Your never going to get there in this thing.' he was told.
He said 'If not this, then in what?'"


Old minds- 'It didn't work last year, we just need to try more of it this year.'
New minds- 'It didn't work last year, lets do something else this year.'



"Once upon a time in commercial carpeting industry there was a 'Goliath' named Ray C Anderson who had taken his company, Interface, Inc., from a modest beginning to a position of global leadership in about twenty years, becoming one of those wicked billionaire multinational corporations you hear about. This 'Goliath' had always made a point of being in compliance with government regulations, but these didn't stop the business from being a highly pollutive one.
But in 1994 he read two books that changed his mind about what he was doing. One was Paul Hawken's book, The Ecology of Commerce, the other was Ishmael. After reading these books Ray Anderson saw that being in compliance is not nearly enough. He immediately initiated action to end his dependence on petroleum and to begin making 100% recyclable carpeting from 100% recyclable materials, thus reducing his company's contribution to landfills to zero. It is important to note that these changes didn't affect just his corporation. suddenly all his competitors were compelled to adopt his standards just to remain competitive. This 'Goliath' didn't just reform a business, he reformed an entire industry - not because scrawny little David defeated him, but because two books made him think a different way about the world and his place in it."



"This is why i can confidently predict that if the world is saved, it will not be because some old minds came up with some new programs. Programs never stop the thing they're launched to stop. No program has ever stopped poverty, drug abuse, or crime, and no program ever will stop them."

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11 years 5 months ago #80440 by
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Sikik talked about programs and how they've been used to fix problem. How ever what happens when programs don't work? Do we stop using programs? No we don't we just keep doing more of the same year after year.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
-Albert Einstein

I want to talk about Vision now but before we do lets go over some definitions.

Programs: A system of services, opportunities, or projects, usually designed to meet a social need

Vision: the ability or an instance of great perception, esp of future developments

When we talk about Vision, look at it as if it were a river. The river of vision will takes us some place. Our culture had a vision of where they wanted to go. For a while it was taking us someplace wonderful. Because of our vision we were able to achieve all sorts of technological advancements,cure all kinds of disease, make amazing cities, and even take our first steps in to space. Right now our culture is taking us some place. Most of us know (by looking around) that its not taking us where we want to go. I'm talking about the land fills, the wars, the animals going extinct, the drugs, homeless, the corruption, and the economical crisis. Clearly our cultures River of Vision is not taking us where we want to go. So what have we done to change this. We make programs.

Year after year we created programs after programs and they fail year after year.

That's because programs are like planks placed in the river. All they do is slow the river down. Even if you cover the entire river with planks(programs) eventually the river will just flood over or around. All programs do is try to solve problems. Programs are designed to stop (the river) bad things from happening. They are not designed to make good things happen.

So instead of trying to damn the river up with programs why don't we channel it in a different direction?

Old Minds think: How do we stop bad things from happening.
New Minds think: What do we do to make things the way we want them to be.

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11 years 5 months ago #80447 by MCSH
Replied by MCSH on topic Re: Programs and Visions
Well, Master Daniel talked about Culture, it’s not what you probably think, here is what Culture is:

to make it long or short, culture is the way you live. As suggested by Daniel Quinn, we have 2 most important culture : Takers, and Leavers.

Leavers are those who have an old vision, using old programs, and simply following the rule of life. While Takers, have a more new vision, using some new programs, that are destroying world.

Takers mean someone who ‘take food’ and don’t share it, and leaver is someone who 'leave the rest of food’ and pick as much as he needs. They also don’t grow/buy food themselves, they pick it up in nature.

If you are reading this text in TOTJO, then you are a taker.

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Clerical Mentor : Master Jestor

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Clerical Rank: Licensed Minister
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11 years 5 months ago #80537 by
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So here we have a basic mapped understanding of how programs affect us and where visions carry us. An understanding of these will better explain why our culture, no matter how hard we try, will always lead to devastating our world and ruining our chance for a sustainable habitat. So good thing Sajjad mentioned Taker and Giver cultures, because the differences in these two cultural visions are what we need to contrast and compare to narrow down the proper decision to make in order to get us on the right path to a new mindset.

I would like to first elaborate on what Sajjad stated about taker and leaver definitions. Takers, taking food and Leavers, leaving food- is a decent explanation, it certainly is what those cultures do. More importantly though, is that the differences between these two are how they handle the law of nature, or as Daniel has explain in 'Jedi Sentinel Finding' the law called "Law of Limited Competition". It can be explained that Leavers , by following the law, leave the rule of the world into the hands of the gods. And of course Takers reject the law by taking the rule of the world into their own hands, deciding who lives and who dies, a decision that was ALWAYS left up to the gods until a few thousand years ago. The Takers ,believe it or not, haven't been around forever and certainly were not the predominate way of life little more than 10,000 years ago, the law of competition always kept them in check. It wasn't until we developed a certain type of agriculture that lured us away from the Leavers way of life.

I really want to go into the subject of "The Great Forgetting", it incorporates a massive amount of Stories within; including history itself, and although this part of our Stories is absolutely paramount to understanding the full spectrum of our culture, i feel obligated to wait. My intuition tells me that speaking of it now will only go so far or maybe its just not time idk, i suppose i will bide my time until the time is right...^_^

Hope to hear some replies soon

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11 years 4 months ago #81501 by
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A good example would be a river and old raft, a new raft, and patches.

The river will be time, the raft will be vision, and the patches will be programs.

If we're floating down the river in the old raft and it keeps spring holes we use parches(programs) to fix it. Eventually we might make it down the rive or we might just sink. What would happen if we just used a new raft? :dry:

Our culture has this exact same problem. Our cultures vision is: The world was made for man and man was made to conquers and rule it.

This vision isn't working any more and we've been patching it up left and right year after year hoping that we'll fix all the problems we've created.

I think its time for a new vision!

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11 years 4 months ago #81503 by
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The social upheaval required to change the world at this point is truly terrifying to consider. The catalyst would have to be one of, if not THE most important moment in human history.

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11 years 4 months ago #81507 by
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@ Williamkaede

A lot of people think so but it doesn't have to be that way. Dont get me wrong it would be faster if it was THE most important moment in human history. However all you need to do is invent! We call ourselves inventors so lets invent! :woohoo:

a simple first step is to teach our kids with a different story. They hear a story every day and we need to teach them a different one. (Some of you might kill me for this)

We need to teach them that "the world was not made for them and they were not made to rule it". They were made to help it!

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11 years 4 months ago #81519 by
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It'll be a long, slow, painful process that we're not even sure will work. But I do concur. Understanding is the Way.

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11 years 4 months ago #81523 by
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I totally agree. Much like the process we took to learn how to fly. It was done with trial and error. Much like the process of the industrial and agricultural revolution.

why would we expect this process to be any different. Still if it will save the world of man (homo sapien sapien) why not?

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11 years 4 months ago #81541 by RyuJin
Replied by RyuJin on topic Re: Programs and Visions
the safest way to cross a raging torrent is not to paddle upstream, but to let the current take you where it's going. of course this may not lead you to your desired destination...in cases like this you paddle diagonally across the stream, with the current...you arrive near your destination, with energy to spare to reach your destination...and if you plan properly, you can paddle diagonally with the current and still hit your mark dead on...foresight and understanding work hand in hand to guide you past obstacles to your destination efficiently

of course i'm the type of person that would simply jump in and swim if my raft kept leaking(i don't cling to useless things, and if it keeps leaking then it becomes a useless thing)...if it's not up to the job, find a way that is, and always know your abilities and limitations...

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