What makes a Pagan Jedi

First off if you haven't noticed, the first word in this title is Pagan, it is the same with all of the other rites. What we were, or have chosen comes first and Jedi comes second, it might just have been a coincidence but to mean it reflects the differences that have made us who we are.

In this particular rite we are Pagans of many beliefs or combination of beliefs who believe in a religion that is separate from Christianic, Buddhist, and Pure Force beliefs. In this Rite you can believe in anything from Angels to fairies, demons to jinn, Deva to Kami. In truth i feel that the pagan rite has the most freedom to believe in the impossible more so than any other Rite. pagan is an embrella term for a wide variety of beliefs.

The best example i can give of this is my own personal belief. I very much thank the Temple and my brothers and sisters here for my combined set of beliefs. I am a person who analyses almost everything or perhaps i should say everything. So, my view of the Force is the same as Taoist view the Tao so in that aspect i am more Taoist than anything else but Taoists tend to leave everything but the Tao up to the interpretation of the individual and in that case i believe in reincarnation, but i believe that some people with old souls have managed to remain with the force after passing in such a way that they can (perhaps) influence the Force, in a similar fashion to the Kami of Japanese belief. And finally i believe that our thoughts influence the world around us in such a manner that Magick is possible although possitive thought is more of the Magick that i attempt to use these days as opposed to ritual and ceremonial.

So i hope i gave a good example and thought behind what the Pagan Rite basics are.

MTFBWY and never stop learning

I agree Master April, it is our \"multiple\" beliefs that allow us some freedom within Pagan Rite. I too understand Magick, Goddess/Gods, potential existence of dragons (because not proven scientifically). Our legends did not just poof into existence because someone that it would be fun, but because of something from ancient times that we have forgotten or misplaced.

It is from this freedom that we are able to follow our path in conjunction with the Force. From the Force we come and to it we return. A common belief in all \"religious\" sense.

is it truly possible to follow both sets of ideas. I follow a more viking path in my religion and have found times that i've actually had to stop and think about my two chosen paths. The one answer that has always gotten me through these moments is that the force guides me, even though i don't follow christian ideal. Even when others don't understand my decisions.

That is really a great insight, Qui San Gin!

It says in the book of Matthew that \"no man can serve two masters,\" and so rather than thinking of it as a multiple, many Jedi that I know of are forced to choose one or the other in the beginning.

But as time goes on, one realizes that the Force follows a lot of the same dynamics as the Holy Spirit, or God, or perhaps even the Savior. There is no separation: it's all the same.

And likewise, in the Pagan path, I've spoke to people who tell me that the Force is like the God and Goddess, like magick itself, and like other things. Always, they equate it to the familiar, and it works... this tells me that the Force is all things, within all things, outside of all things, and everything.

Truly, focus on the similarities more than the differences.

And also, pay attention to the values that the Bible teaches... they're not all exactly the same as the Jedi, but they're close enough that you can see they came from the same intent.

About the last line - here is a thought -

Where did the 'ideas' in the bible originate?

Where did those ideas come from - and those, and those ...

Now repeat the exercise with ideas found in EVERY other faith and culture in history - im sure theyd all end up at the same root

Now does some of the content of the Jo Campbell lectures make sense?

MTFBWY - A

Sometimes when I don't have time to fully explain jediism to someone; I call it a \"Mutt\" religion. As we all know a \"Mutt\" is a dog that is at least two different breeds together. The beauty of Jediism is it has alot of different elements simmilar to the other main religions. Hence our ability to work and play well with everyone.

Most pagan religions are \"the old religions\"; many predating Christianity. They like Jediism in many cases are \"mutts\" as well. throughout history other religions have tried to destroy various pagan doctorine and dogmas. As a result much of the religions were passed down verbally and kept so very secretive for fear of imprisonment or execution. The very logical result is when it's passed down verbally like that it gets lost in translation. So it becomes a mutt. Christianity is no different. We've all seen \"The DaVinci Code\" and it is generally acepted that the bit where they were saying they tweaked bits (like the mortality vs. Divinity of Christ) was correct. That being said Christianity becomes a mutt as well.

Once again I mention the beauty of Jediism- it works and plays well with everyone. Where For centuries We've had war and crusades and holy wars and witch hunts and all nature of people going against the main point of all religion:
Be A good person.

the religions have more in common that they could ever possibly imagine or admit to. isn't praying the same as performing a ritual or spell? both are asking a higher power for assitance or guidance. And for those who are not religious, maybe Magick and prayer doesn't work- or maybe we don't understand it. 200 years ago a cell phone would have been considered a joke or some sort of magic trick. maybe even \"Witchcraft\". our knowledge on this earth is so limited it's almost a joke.

This is for me, where Jediism comes in. Jediism is one of the first (maybe the first) that says \"We're all the same\" it pays due respect to Christ, the Goddess, Buddah, all of them. Even Science and logic plays a factor (\"The Field\" comes to mind) in our religion.
Running the risk of sounding pompous Jediism is perfect to bridge the gap between all religions- and it even has a home for people like me who by being Pure Land belive they all got the basic idea right.

Mutt is a good analogy

Mutts are usually nicer personalities and healthier animals all round

Much like Jediism - it may be a cross breed (aka Heinz 57) but its healthier and nicer than most (if not all) others

Mutt Anology

Kana Seiko Haruki wrote:

Mutt is a good analogy

Mutts are usually nicer personalities and healthier animals all round

Much like Jediism - it may be a cross breed (aka Heinz 57) but its healthier and nicer than most (if not all) others [/quote


Ok, ok, ok,   So...
First I say this with LOVE and not to insult anyone or anything, just following the discussion lines....

Jedism is a combination  of all the religions... Or at least saying they are all common when boiled downtown to basics.    

So.... Reversing that... All the religions came from a common source or thought, what did Campbell call it? Similar thinking or taking belief with you, and adapting it to new areas. 

Like all canines are desendents of the wild dog. And were specifically bred for certain characteristics? And by breeding for characteristics, flaws became apparent? (in canines) hip displacia, cataracts, etc......

This where we headed? Back to where we started? By allowing all Jedi to still follow their heart ( and base religion) we combine ourselves to the beginning? ( I wish I knew how to attach a drawing, I have a great one in my mind). 

Using the anology, mutts seperated to become pure breed, then problems, so recombined to become healthier.....

Wow..... I gotta lay off the energy drinks...... Lolol... Rebuttals?

All major religions, spiritualities and schools of faith have elements that can be traced back to shamanism, which is in itself a loose term for the indigenous practices of each tribe. This was a time before any other, when we lived in complete synthesis with our surroundings. The healers and visionaries (shamen, medicine men, call them what you will...) would commune with the transcendent \"Gaian supermind\" for the betterment of the tribe and each tribal member would appreciate the direct link between the life of the nature around them and the life within themselves.

Sounds familiar? No, not Avatar (although it can be argued that that is the latest representation of such ideals), but Jediism. So any of our beliefs as pagan Jedi (and even those of other rites) are interconnected even though we may give them different names. \"A rose by any other name....\"

My own shamanic path developed and took on a huge Taoist element (Taoism being a direct descendant of Eastern shamanic practices and beliefs) but I don't see the differences, only the binding correlation between the two.

I guess what I'm saying is: hello to all my fellow Jedi (and particularly the pagan ones!) and I extend the hand of friendship and brother/sisterhood to you all!

MTFBWY

just be kind !!!

kindness goes a long way in any philosophy
flexibility and adaptability should too, though it's not often found in many religions.

At a personal level, I think that kindness is awesome. Using the soft approach to things often gets done what forcing the issue does not. In Buddhism (at least, I think it's from Buddhism, though it may also be from Confucius) it is said that the wise walks with his head bowed, and is lower than the dust. In this way, people are struck by the wisdom and tend to be more receptive to advice which fits their situation.

But there are also people who confuse kindness with passivity: is it kinder to allow a man who is intent on killing himself to do so, or is it kinder to use forceful means to save his life? Though it depends on the situation, most Buddhists agree that the use of force to save the man's life is actually a kindness, while being passive and allowing the man to kill himself is an act of violence.

In Paganism, I've noticed that this passivity is prevalent among the people who just don't know what they're doing, especially among certain groups of the New Age movement. However, these are the minority any more, as people who become spiritually aware come to a natural balance within themselves and begin to understand how the balances of energies work. They understand that kindness is a means of preventing suffering, and so they become forceful where soft kindness wouldn't work. This is what makes people like Tiamat so effective at what they do, even when they are seeming to come off as negative at times: they are diminishing the suffering of others by directing the suffering away from them.

Thus, a Pagan Jedi is really no different from any other kind of Jedi, other than the perspective from which they perceive the Force. I think that the reason we have rites is not to separate, but to allow for a \"comfort zone\" while people come to an understanding of this. It's the illusion of separation which creates comfort, and though we are not the same, we are all still one.

This idea can also be framed into Christian and Humanist terms, but I'm already risking the tl;dr limit.

good points, i do think that quote is from buddhism...not 100% certain though.

quite true that sometimes to do kindness a degree of forcefulness may be necessary.

It's difficult to gauge sometimes, though.

I agree that to be kind is not always soft , although I see it as the preferred option, and force to be last option,and though they seem to two sides of the same coin perhaps there are other sides,In your example above of a man wishing to kill himself, I would see that inner strength of those that wish to practice kindness much more beneficial than force, the inner strength being a certainty from within that all is not lost , more a speaking to the spirit than to the \"Drama\" of all is lost, for if you talk to the \"Drama\" then all is lost, for the person will feel that , all that you are seeing is the drama and not them, ( the powerful spirit) you have done what they have and believed the drama of their mind, which is why they feel lost.......kind of like the way you would speak to a child throwing a tantrum , from outside the situation, so as I see it another side of the coin....Well there we have it a three sided coin

i prefer a good 20 sided die to a coin....lots of options available that way, even if you are less likely to get the result you want, what's life without chance.

Life without chance ? BORING one would think

To reference the most popular Pagan saying (I know not all paths follow it but...):

\"An it harm none, do what ye will\"

Very simple, yet also complicated. I find it's a good guide since you can do whatever makes you happy as long as it doesn't hurt or denigrate anyone (and that includes yourself).

Sometimes the simplest of truths are the most powerful!

MTFBWY

I like the modernized version of this:

\"If it does no harm, do whatever you want to.\"

That's not the same as kindness, though.

The problem is, in the example I gave, would harm be knocking someone unconscious to save their lives, or allowing them to kill themselves (since these are the only options presented in the situation)? In both cases, harm is probable.

Compassion demands that action be taken to prevent suffering. If he killed himself, and he was Catholic, would his soul ultimately go to Hell? If he was Buddhist, would killing himself cause him to be unable to dissolve karma to his next lifetime? If Hindu, would he be reincarnated as an insect and have to start the entire process of working up to humanity again? If atheist, would he be robbing the community of valuable insight which only he is capable of?

Or is this suicide an attempt at preventing suffering? Someone who is intent on harming themselves is very difficult to be kind to. In such cases, it's best to use the least amount of force to get the job done; but it must be done.

\"An it harm none\" is great as a general rule, but one must still weigh the harm which is done and choose the least amount of it. To do otherwise is to invite suffering... one cannot simply avoid harm altogether in a world which is focused on promoting it.

by killing himself he may also inflict suffering upon family, friends, and others. by using just enough force to stop him then reasoning with him could stop a great deal of suffering