The Force powers as we know them

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4 years 2 months ago #346669 by J. K. Barger
It's funny, I just came across those transcripts of the US Government Remote viewing stuff; what a co-inky-dink.

What are your thoughts on that Gisteron?

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4 years 2 months ago #346676 by Gisteron
On that you came across them at right about the same time as they were mentioned in this thread? Hmm, I don't know. Could well be a coincidence. I mean, think of the possibly thousands of things that come up as you surf the web without them being discussed here at the same time. Or the things that come up here but not elsewhere in your feed. Those don't seem important, do they... Maybe there is more to it. I have insufficient information to say either way.

If you mean the content of the transcripts, feel free to link any in particular.
The one uploaded by Malicious and attached to post #346618 seems either incomplete or deliberately sparse. It looks like some meetings took place, maybe even some studies, but no procedures or results are described in the document itself. There is almost nothing in there for me to even comment on, really. Needless to say I don't think it underwent any peer review elsewhere either. Aside from the in part vague definitions and in part references to undefined terms, the only substantive content - and incidentally also the only place where the document has complete sentences at all is the summary. There it says that remote viewing should not stand alone and also that it can be used "in conjunction with" other intelligence sources. In other words, it is treated as a source that's only really any good if there are others corroborating it, but not on its own. I don't know how they could have expressed its redundancy/uselessness in any more generous, more charitable terms than that.

As for the fact that any time was (allegedly) wasted investigating psychic powers in the first place, that's fair enough. I don't think of that as much of an argument on substance anyway. And as I in my last post, I don't think that high political or military/intelligence offices come with or require either scientific literacy in particular, or even critical thinking more broadly.

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4 years 2 months ago - 4 years 2 months ago #346679 by Adder
Intelligence analysts are all about critical thinking. Intelligence collectors though tend to be a bit more specialised to the skills required to collect. But the quality of the product enables its analysis, so knowing what is useful and not tends to help probably. Quality control needs measures of control in collection, and from memory that is where those agencies fell short.

In regards to why....... it was the Cold War, no side wants the other to have an advantage - but research costs valuable resources so we'll never know if it was chasing deception or chasing potential genuine research (at the higher levels). No doubt it would be likely those involved at the lower levels in doing it believed it, as its a higher quality deception for them to. But, it might have been legit, and I ended up with the same sort of results in some areas of it with my dodgy attempts.

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4 years 2 months ago #346707 by Gisteron
The reason I specified high offices is exactly this. I don't think that a significant fraction of the analysts and researchers were thinking to themselves "Oh, of course, magical powers the reports of which contradict each other more often than not, if they are each even being coherent at all, contradict almost everything we know about how nature works, known to be sold by charlatans, and elsewise indicated by exactly nothing - yea, totally legit!". I think it was more of a case of some higher ups thinking along the lines of "Oh, and you say we can beat the Russians with it? Shut up and take my money!"
Both scenarios are technically possible, and both are odd, too, but both seem (to me) vastly more plausible than the idea that yes, as a matter of fact, everything we think we know about nature is completely incorrect after all.

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2 years 6 months ago - 2 years 6 months ago #362156 by
Replied by on topic The Force powers as we know them

The fact that an idea or a thought created by one human being is capable of causing another human being to think or behave differently is proof enough that the force is absolutely real and present in all of our lives.

In the context of Star Wars, the force seems unlike anything that exists in our world, but if we look around us we’ll see that people’s thoughts and ideas have profound and tangible effects on the real world every single day. The beautiful thing about this truth is that we’re all capable of using our minds to touch other people and affect the world around us as well.

Star Wars is, of course, fictional. But when it comes to the force, there are way too many examples that prove it is a very real thing that every single one of us is capable of using.


look up the words Chi, Qi, Prana, Shakti….they are all terms referencing the same thing. Intelligent energy pervading all things that can be directed by the mind. In India there are what are called Siddhis, or supranormal abilities that can be a side effect of intense spiritual practice. These can range from telepathy to telekinesis to teleportation and bilocation, according to Indian scriptures. I can tell that George Lucas is very well read in Eastern religious literature, so I’m sure he had this in mind when creating Star Wars and the force.


https://medium.com/personal-growth/the-force-is-real-7874801ba1f0
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2 years 6 months ago #362162 by Manu

WoodfordJedi wrote: look up the words Chi, Qi, Prana, Shakti….they are all terms referencing the same thing. Intelligent energy pervading all things that can be directed by the mind. In India there are what are called Siddhis, or supranormal abilities that can be a side effect of intense spiritual practice. These can range from telepathy to telekinesis to teleportation and bilocation, according to Indian scriptures.


Argumentum ad populum.
Faulty generalization

Yes, the Force is inspired in these concepts present in Eastern religions.
Yes, Eastern religions are real, and contain loads of wisdom.
That does not mean that every element of Eastern thought is automatically true. Nor does it legitimize "Force powers" as a real thing.

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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2 years 6 months ago #362166 by
Replied by on topic The Force powers as we know them
The author of the article i linked to makes some argument the force is real, i don't pretend to speak to the accuracy's of any of his observations.

Im sensing my attempts to contribute to the discussions disturbs you and shall withdraw.

My apologies

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2 years 6 months ago #362167 by Zero
No need to apologize woodfordjedi…I think there is some background you should have about us before you continue this topic. What the vast majority of us practice here involves the “real “ world. We have various religious backgrounds, but a lot of us have strong science backgrounds as well. We get many people here every year claiming to be psychic, have telekinesis powers of some type, even some who claim to have the dark side force lightning. And not one of them can prove it.

As you can imagine, it’s very disheartening to members of a legally and federally recognized religion and church to have people show up who can’t seperate Star Wars fiction from reality. We even had a guy once claim to get visions from emperor palpitine ( who was orbiting earth in his space ship).

We take what we do here very seriously, and just want to be sure you do as well. We do have thi chi practitioners, reiki masters, Buddhist, and Christians here, and we respect their beliefs……but the line for most of us gets drawn when people start talking about magical powers to float objects across the room or lightning from their fingers……these things obviously put us in a very defensive mood.

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2 years 6 months ago - 2 years 6 months ago #362173 by
Replied by on topic The Force powers as we know them

Zero wrote: No need to apologize woodfordjedi…I think there is some background you should have about us before you continue this topic. What the vast majority of us practice here involves the “real “ world. We have various religious backgrounds, but a lot of us have strong science backgrounds as well. We get many people here every year claiming to be psychic, have telekinesis powers of some type, even some who claim to have the dark side force lightning. And not one of them can prove it.

As you can imagine, it’s very disheartening to members of a legally and federally recognized religion and church to have people show up who can’t seperate Star Wars fiction from reality. We even had a guy once claim to get visions from emperor palpitine ( who was orbiting earth in his space ship).

We take what we do here very seriously, and just want to be sure you do as well. We do have thi chi practitioners, reiki masters, Buddhist, and Christians here, and we respect their beliefs……but the line for most of us gets drawn when people start talking about magical powers to float objects across the room or lightning from their fingers……these things obviously put us in a very defensive mood.


Thank You Zero, for your counsel and patience.

I claim no psychic powers, and the only time i heard Palpatine was at the movie theater.

I am deeply skeptical of all claims of supernatural things. Personally the scientific principle is the only method of navigating reality. things we cant explain are simply knowledge gaps, not ipso facto proof of the supernatural.

To me the universe is a mechanism that can be quantified and understood if viewed with curiosity and honesty.

I hope this worldview is acceptable in Jediism
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2 years 6 months ago #362176 by Manu

WoodfordJedi wrote: I'm sensing my attempts to contribute to the discussions disturbs you and shall withdraw.

My apologies


By all means carry on, if these discussions disturbed me I wouldn't have posted. I apologize if my response seemed dismissive.

As a disclaimer, I do believe some "supernatural" phenomena is real, as I have experienced things I can't explain, and it's made me realize that there is a whole lot of things out there that I ignore. However, I have lost a considerable amount of time in the past pursuing such things, only to realize that

A) I was making a faulty generalization by assuming that because some "psychic" phenomena may be real, all psychic phenomena out there must be real.

B) There are better uses of my time and focus (Eastern thought itself cautions Siddhis to be distractions from the path)

The pessimist complains about the wind;
The optimist expects it to change;
The realist adjusts the sails.
- William Arthur Ward
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