The Force powers as we know them

forceuser wrote: Some people believe so strongly in their laws and facts when really they're just theories and beliefs Pushed on them.

Yea, try and keep that in mind next time you trust the "just theories and beliefs pushed on them" of thermodynamics that make your car engine not a useless hunk of metal. Keep that in mind on new year's eve when you see all the colourful fireworks produced by exploiting the "just theories and beliefs pushed on them" of chemistry. Most of all keep it in mind every time you come here to tell us about the virtues of pseudo-open-mindedness by using an electronic device built from semiconductors understood through the quantum "just theories and beliefs pushed on them" of solids.

Open your mind to woo, then close it to reality, and then pretend it's those who won't follow down that path that are the unreasonable, the closed-minded, the blind ones.

forceuser wrote: Some people believe so strongly in their laws and facts when really they're just theories and beliefs....

The process of investigating and validating claims is much more well developed and reliable in the world of academics than it is in the world of psychics and reiki masters. The absurdity of you claiming that the “science side” is the one that denies reality by clinging to their shallow “laws and facts when really theyre just theories and beliefs” does not come across as an impressive argument against science, but as an unintended admission of your complete ignorance about it.

There is a whole nother world and power that these people in the fish tank will never know.

I dont know if you know this but “nother” is not a word. It may be that you were speaking informally and/or it may be that english is not your first language. Having grown up in the Southern United States, ive heard “whole nother world” used before, particularly by poorly educated, white people. Im not picking on white people, here; poorly educated black people also butcher the english language, they just do it in different ways. The important thing is this; if youre trying to convince me that you understand he fundamental elements of reality and the human psyche better than i do, youre not helping your case by making me suspect that you cant even ****** talk. LOL
Its just another hint that you are ignorant/unaware of some very basic and very important things that adults who take their own intellectual development seriously will do their best to understand.

Not that there's anything that will help your case at this point. Youve claimed to have repeatedly done things which i am confident that you have not done. Magical things which defy the laws of nature. Either you truly believe you have done these things, or you know that you havent. In the event of the first,i wont bother trying to convince you to see a doctor about your hallucinations because i know you wont listen, but i will tell you that you're experiencing hallucinations and should see a doctor. A psychiatrist, in particular.
In the second case, im going to be charitable and guess that you justify the falsehood because you really believe these things are possible. You think someone is doing them, so its OK for you to “stick up for them” by claiming to have done them, yourself. Probably you even believe that you will eventually do them, so what difference does it really make if you say it, now?

It makes a difference. People who understand that we have to build our lives on what it TRUE will respect the truth and speak the truth, even when they wish the truth were different.

You've got me there my English is terrible even my mother had a hard time understanding me. In my college days I had a professor tell me I needed to take English as a second language.
Since most of you seem like you're on the road to becoming a jedi or self aware.
I had a man tell me" you have 2 ears and one mouth you're supposed to listen twice as much as you speak. " and of course by now you can tell I'm old school my mother always told us if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything.
Your words trouble me because they don't have compassion understanding or even the Desire to learn from others.
My grandfather taught me your word is your bond.
I try not to exaggerate or embellish .
I'm going to tell you a little about myself not to brag just to show you I'm not a kid who needs
To feel important while telling the world they're wrong.
I have received diplomas and certificates in automotive mechanics, I've been in the military, repelled and jumped out of planes something I thought was important at the time. I don't know how I graduated the sheriff's Academy when I could barely spell Write a report, they must have felt sorry for me. I received a general contractor's license and also a realestate license. I have built hundreds and hundreds of homes and personally bought Around a 100.
I don't need your approval. Like you my whole life I was trained to believe the force and its use was impossible and things movies were made of. Not trying to convince you . My only proof would be A doctor who travels the world preaching ,and an a handful or so of eyewitnesses. I know that's not scientific proof.
All I can say is all those things you've seen the jedi do In a fictional movie . Plus more can and have been done in Real life.
May you all be with the force.

So seeing as you don't need whomever's approval, the reason you are telling them how you're just better than them (or great, at any rate) in so many ways and particularly not a self-absorbed and/or insecure child is... just incidental. No intention to brag at all, none to condescend... Fair enough.

Still doesn't make fantasy real, sorry, no matter how hard you "all I can say". Which, if we're being frank here... isn't even a lot, all things considered. Imagine how much nonsense one could spout on a long enough day, were one to entirely abandon any commitments to honesty...

Data is like a currency, it only has measures of effect depending on the mechanics of its market. Some practices have real capabilities in the subjective realm and not in the objective. So long as they don't cause degradation in other systems I think its good to explore.

Adder wrote: Data is like a currency, it only has measures of effect depending on the mechanics of its market. Some practices have real capabilities in the subjective realm and not in the objective. So long as they don't cause degradation in other systems I think its good to explore.

I would caution against randomly exploring, because there is some risk of potential degradation. One of the reasons that I assume many religious esoteric practices demand a "close relationship with God", "purity", etc., is that there is a risk of psychological damage from pursuing esoteric practices. I have seen people develop various forms of pathology from attempting these "arts".

The most likely reason for self-harm has to do with the amount of mental resources devoted to reinforcing the pursuit of a fruitless pursuit. You don't get to "think" that much on something without it taking a hold of your mind in weird ways.

Even if you want to look at it from a esoteric point of view... if these "powers" are real, there is absolutely no reason to conclude they self-regulate or include some sort of feature that shuts them off whenever they are misdirected. If there is a good use for "energy manipulation", it is just as probable that there is a way to misuse it, damaging yourself and others along the way.

Did you know that throughout ww2 and the cold war the united States government and other countries as well used remote viewing aka psychic powers , people who astral projection , psychics and people who have so call visions of the future or what we like to call force visions ? And during this period of time a great deal of scientific evidence that prove in these powers where actually researched . The people who was actually legit had a very high success rate in their predictions and details like who was a hidden spy , where at was a secret compound and even nuclear launch codes ? There is evidence if you look . And as for energy healing in a couple studies some still continuing Today have had high success rates . Most of this information can be found on documents declassified by the CIA and FBI , feel free to go on there websites and look them up ! Ya wanted proof , just go on the CIA gov website and see for yourself . But the people here and there accounts on the matter is a different point it's there own personal experience so who knows ?

Manu wrote:

Adder wrote: Data is like a currency, it only has measures of effect depending on the mechanics of its market. Some practices have real capabilities in the subjective realm and not in the objective. So long as they don't cause degradation in other systems I think its good to explore.

I would caution against randomly exploring, because there is some risk of potential degradation.....

I agree there is a real risk. Its much easier to make a mess of something then a success of it. Mistakes hold valuable learnings usually, but sometimes the cost of the lesson is both unforeseen and too expensive. I think that is where the art comes into it, much like physical arts it is the ability to both train effectively 'and' not get injured doing so that makes a performer.

Malicious wrote: Did you know that throughout ww2 and the cold war the united States government and other countries as well used remote viewing aka psychic powers , people who astral projection , psychics and people who have so call visions of the future or what we like to call force visions ? And during this period of time a great deal of scientific evidence that prove in these powers where actually researched . The people who was actually legit had a very high success rate in their predictions and details like who was a hidden spy , where at was a secret compound and even nuclear launch codes ? There is evidence if you look . And as for energy healing in a couple studies some still continuing Today have had high success rates . Most of this information can be found on documents declassified by the CIA and FBI , feel free to go on there websites and look them up ! Ya wanted proof , just go on the CIA gov website and see for yourself . But the people here and there accounts on the matter is a different point it's there own personal experience so who knows ?

Didnt they conclude its too hard to control its operation? Certainly in my decades long exploring it I was able to do enough to think its possible but also that it's either very difficult or impossible to control. I was left having to consider the mechanics of its apparant function being not wholly within the users control (and what that might mean)

Adder it is true for people that hasn't had years of training and experience it is hard to control and for some it is almost out of control for them but if you have a great deal of experience then you can control it easier but it does weigh on you mentally .

Malicious wrote: Adder it is true for people that hasn't had years of training and experience it is hard to control and for some it is almost out of control for them but if you have a great deal of experience then you can control it easier but it does weigh on you mentally .

Unfortunately that appears to be no-one. Perhaps no-one ever! For any claims mean nothing without demonstrated capability.

Malicious wrote: Adder it is true for people that hasn't had years of training and experience it is hard to control and for some it is almost out of control for them but if you have a great deal of experience then you can control it easier but it does weigh on you mentally .

How many years of training and experience do you have as a remote viewer? Who trained you? Most importantly, can you tell me what kind of car i am sitting in? What color it is? Whats next to it?

Adder wrote:

Malicious wrote: Adder it is true for people that hasn't had years of training and experience it is hard to control and for some it is almost out of control for them but if you have a great deal of experience then you can control it easier but it does weigh on you mentally .

Unfortunately that appears to be no-one. Perhaps no-one ever! For any claims mean nothing without demonstrated capability.

Looks like we shall truly never know even if the government had 8 men and one woman in a Room doing testing Someone.
Who's to believe them they can easily type something on a computer screen.
Or static shock in the testing equipment so now the data is flawed.
That's ridiculous no government would spend millions of dollars on testing something they knew was against what they believed and scientific fact..
Can you imagine what would happen if someone were to raise an Apple off a table with their mind it would cause chaos because then the laws of gravity would only be a theory.
On to more important things. The real Star Wars movie comes out in a few weeks.

Ob1shinobi , I in no way am a remote viewer , I am just read up on scientific studies on certain matters , one like this . I lack the ability but in a decent span I am able to predict a little bit of the future with great accuracy but read my forum post on the matter .

And adder you guys are asking for proof and scientific evidence , I have given you the resources to read that evidence . If you want evidence feel free to track down the people from the report who has scientifically proven they can do so and ask for a demonstration until then please read up on the subject ! There is plenty of papers , study and evidence on the CIA gov website !

forceuser wrote: You've got me there my English is terrible even my mother had a hard time understanding me. In my college days I had a professor tell me I needed to take English as a second language.
Since most of you seem like you're on the road to becoming a jedi or self aware.
I had a man tell me" you have 2 ears and one mouth you're supposed to listen twice as much as you speak. " and of course by now you can tell I'm old school my mother always told us if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything.
Your words trouble me because they don't have compassion understanding or even the Desire to learn from others.
My grandfather taught me your word is your bond.
I try not to exaggerate or embellish .
I'm going to tell you a little about myself not to brag just to show you I'm not a kid who needs
To feel important while telling the world they're wrong.
I have received diplomas and certificates in automotive mechanics, I've been in the military, repelled and jumped out of planes something I thought was important at the time. I don't know how I graduated the sheriff's Academy when I could barely spell Write a report, they must have felt sorry for me. I received a general contractor's license and also a realestate license. I have built hundreds and hundreds of homes and personally bought Around a 100.
I don't need your approval. Like you my whole life I was trained to believe the force and its use was impossible and things movies were made of. Not trying to convince you . My only proof would be A doctor who travels the world preaching ,and an a handful or so of eyewitnesses. I know that's not scientific proof.
All I can say is all those things you've seen the jedi do In a fictional movie . Plus more can and have been done in Real life.
May you all be with the force.

What state do you live in? If you can do such things as you say, then i will gladly fly or take a bus to come and meet you. Im saying this in front of everyone. I will go to where you are and if you can really do any of these things i will 100% be on Team forceuser, forever. I promise you that the real actual truth is important enough to me that im seriously willing to do this and willing to be honest about what i see. If its true that humans have the potential to do these things then seeing that with my own eyes is worth the effort it takes to know it and the resistance id get defending it. If you really have these abilities and you can do them so i can see them, i will be HONORED to keep preaching the message in spite of all the scorn and criticism in the world.

What state do you live in?

Also to forceuser:

Hey but look, since you said you were taught that your word is your bond (which means you must be telling the truth) and since youve gone to a fair bit of effort to convince us that you can do these things, how about before i buy a plane ticket and book a hotel, you do just a tiny bit more effort and record a video on your phone of you moving objects or doing some kind of Jedi powers. You can upload it as a private video on youtube and post a link to it so we can see it? Could you do that? Its not difficult to record video on your phone or to upload videos on to youtube. Could you record yourself doing something awesome and then share that video with us? I mean honestly, youll make way more of an impact with one video than you will with 100 posts. Just make a video where you do some Jedi Force stuff and say so the camera records you saying that youre doing it for TOTJO. Man, youd make a difference if you did this!

forceuser wrote: Looks like we shall truly never know even if the government had 8 men and one woman in a Room doing testing Someone.
Who's to believe them they can easily type something on a computer screen.

You realize foia wasn't around at that point, so there was no motivation to lie

Edit: unless you're referring to Stargate which was shut down quickly and fully declassified shortly after. You've got to be an Olympic mental gymnast to figure out why that means conspiracy

Or static shock in the testing equipment so now the data is flawed.

That's not how things work, and if you knew anything about instrumentation/electronics you would know how ludicrous this sounds

That's ridiculous no government would spend millions of dollars on testing something they knew was against what they believed and scientific fact..
Can you imagine what would happen if someone were to raise an Apple off a table with their mind it would cause chaos because then the laws of gravity would only be a theory.

The government spends tons of money, and neither the US nor Russia currently spend any money on psychics et al.

On to more important things. The real Star Wars movie comes out in a few weeks.

You can't just try to deflect attention to something else when you're caught without a knowledgeable answer

forceuser wrote: That's ridiculous no government would spend millions of dollars on testing something they knew was against what they believed and scientific fact..

Well, various governments are offering immense funds on research in general. If it turns out that things believed to be fact at one point really aren't, so be it. Better be wrong at one point at correct at another than wrong all of the time and never find out. That being said, though, nobody is claiming that any government spent millions of dollars on testing something they accepted to be factual. Call me old-fashioned, but I for one find it far more likely that a few key career politicians and warriors sincerely believed in woo-woo and went on a mission to try and exploit it for their needs, than that all of physics as we knew them even just a century ago is completely false and some perfectly trustworthy and not desperate war actors found out and then swiftly managed to make their discovery a secret again to which the same people that make sense of particle dynamics and galaxy formations are somehow completely oblivious to ever since their demise and until today.
Also who exactly is ensuring the politicians' scientific credentials or literacy again? Is it the voting public? The same voting public of which a third takes young earth creationism seriously and almost half of which denies climate science?

Can you imagine what would happen if someone were to raise an Apple off a table with their mind...

Let's talk about it when we have any reason to think that it could or did happen. Imagination isn't exactly something we struggle much with, and while I appreciate it's social importance, when it comes to assessing what actually goes on in the world, I prefer sticking to what we can actually observe.

it would cause chaos because then the laws of gravity would only be a theory.

There are multiple theories of gravity (two particularly useful ones), each with their own various laws. Why an occurrence that might seem to violate them all would cause chaos, I'm not sure. Please, explain.

It's funny, I just came across those transcripts of the US Government Remote viewing stuff; what a co-inky-dink.

What are your thoughts on that Gisteron?

On that you came across them at right about the same time as they were mentioned in this thread? Hmm, I don't know. Could well be a coincidence. I mean, think of the possibly thousands of things that come up as you surf the web without them being discussed here at the same time. Or the things that come up here but not elsewhere in your feed. Those don't seem important, do they... Maybe there is more to it. I have insufficient information to say either way.

If you mean the content of the transcripts, feel free to link any in particular.
The one uploaded by Malicious and attached to post #346618 seems either incomplete or deliberately sparse. It looks like some meetings took place, maybe even some studies, but no procedures or results are described in the document itself. There is almost nothing in there for me to even comment on, really. Needless to say I don't think it underwent any peer review elsewhere either. Aside from the in part vague definitions and in part references to undefined terms, the only substantive content - and incidentally also the only place where the document has complete sentences at all is the summary. There it says that remote viewing should not stand alone and also that it can be used "in conjunction with" other intelligence sources. In other words, it is treated as a source that's only really any good if there are others corroborating it, but not on its own. I don't know how they could have expressed its redundancy/uselessness in any more generous, more charitable terms than that.

As for the fact that any time was (allegedly) wasted investigating psychic powers in the first place, that's fair enough. I don't think of that as much of an argument on substance anyway. And as I in my last post, I don't think that high political or military/intelligence offices come with or require either scientific literacy in particular, or even critical thinking more broadly.