Questions for educ admin and council

Serenity wrote:
You should have done the lesson Kyrin , you would probably have been wiser than to start threads to get your way after the fact.

I did do the lesson. Did it make me wiser? What "way" am I trying to get here now? I don't believe I have demanded anything in this thread have I?

I did do the lesson. Did it make me wiser?

I hope so ?

What "way" am I trying to get here now? I don't believe I have demanded anything in this thread have I?

I realise that you want clarity , and guidelines and maybe prevent that something like this does not happen to anyone else. Your case has clearly been investigated thouroughly and i now think that you have to accept that it is what it is. But i do agree with the fact that things are moving slow , maybe too slow. It is confusing , and that can be frustrating. I do wish you the best Kyrin.

I realize that in general, we are trained to deal diplomatic, sometimes verbose responses, that serve the function of addressing a point without making too strong a stand.

But Kyrin likes it rough. :laugh:

When she gets the inflated verbose response, she will pick it apart in an effort to clarify. I once had a boss who did that... I LOVED her, she called us on our BS and demanded straight answers. I got into the habit of answering straight as well.

As long as verbose responses abound, you can bet Kyrin will be there to dismantle them. That IS service (whether it makes you uncomfortable or not).

Serenity,

I have accepted things for what they are a long time ago. This thread is not about me and I am not advocating for myself. This sprung out of another thread where policies and procedures were questioned and this thread was a natural evolution of that. I was the greatest advocate to start it since I was affected the most by the lack of not only procedure but the councils lack of understanding of what little procedure that does exist. I think the simple fact that you have stepped down as well is proof enough that you would agree that you are as tired as many others of us here that bureaucracy and ineptitude is driving the greatest talent away from this temple.

As for the lesson making me wiser, no not really. It just reinforced my position that natural law does not exist. A fact I had explored many lessons ago with Alan but was forced to do again. When that vein continued I began to refuse further lessons. That was all, I was not finding them relevant nor was I getting anything out of them.

Thank you for calling me a great talent :laugh:

People deserve clear rules and guidelines , but there is also the free hand of the TM where he teaches his apprentice skills that said apprentice can use in real life , to serve his Jedi life. I am sorry you fell through the cracks and i am sorry they presented lessons to you that were not taylor made to your talents, because that is what they claim , that the lessons are taylor made to the apprentice , but when it comes down to it , its all arbitrary ...And then when the shit hits the fan , the risk is that the powers that be resort to objective measurements of the lessons , with all consequenses following

True. I lost my mentor and that's were the training for me turned unproductive so I set out in my own path. I eventually ran into senan and great things have come out of that as well. Not many know how to handle an independant spirit that knows what she wants so I have only the greatest respect for those willing to take that on.

I was denied knighthood so I can't teach here. Because I'm not a knight I have no influence in decision making and I'm not eligible for council so I have no available hand in helping set policy. A common complaint is there are not enough willing to help. I think that is not quite true. I just have no avenue to help where I would be best suited and so my only avenue to keep these issues alive is threads like this.

Yes i understand much better now , so my shooting of the hip was not entirely unproductive I do however have a problem with the following , and dont get me wrong , i dont have a problem with what you say but there is something else i dont get , you say

Because I'm not a knight I have no influence in decision making and I'm not eligible for council so I have no available hand in helping set policy.

I am pretty sure there is a member in the council, someone who is not even a Novice so why should not you be eligible for council if it is not connected to rank , seeing you do have your A-div ?

Serenity wrote: I am pretty sure there is a member in the council, someone who is not even a Novice so why should not you be eligible for council if it is not connected to rank , seeing you do have your A-div ?

You are making the assumption that the ruling class here applies the rules of this place consistently and fairly.

Kyrin...

Members of the “ruling class” have never applied policy equally among the entirety of the membership.

I believe that many of the members of Council, in place now, have the moral ability to stand on principle and come to “fair” outcomes on a far more regular basis. There is at least on person that believes, and I fought with regularly, that there is nothing wrong with favoritism and that it should be implemented… sigh… those debated used to frustrate the crap out of me.



There was procedure that was in place. Your training master did not follow it. And he did not agree with the Council assessment that it had to be followed. I got the impression that he felt that because of his PHD he was in a sense above having to strictly adhere to the policy format. But I never received an answer in to the PM’s I sent.

There was also an oversight in procedure. An honest human error. Because the policy was not condensed and all in one place, an oversight was made in point assignment when confirming the 100 points needed for advancement. And I will tell you that the reason no assignment could be awarded more than a total of 15 points for all work done in that assignment no matter how good the work is… is because we used to have training masters that would assign things like the Tao and make it half of their points during the apprenticeship. It was a measure put in place to try and stop things like that from happening.

Honestly, when I logged in the other day and saw you were still and apprentice I was shocked, surprised. When you first came up for Knighthood I was a voting member on Council. And I will tell you now that I voted against your advancement. Then it was discovered that your point scheme did not add up according to policy. So we, at least I know I did, contacted your training master to have you assigned more lessons. He asked like what? And that was the last I heard…

So in an effort to help your point count I, and acting alone, decided revisiting a few assignments you had done earlier and approaching them from a different point of view might be helpful. You may wonder why I voted no. I felt that at the time you did not represent or have the qualities “I” look for in a Knight of Jediism. Someone who is going to pass on what we believe and be a representative of the Order. And as you know we talked and at one point we seemed, at least I thought, to have a kind of break through and I believed you were on the right path to fulfill what I was looking for in a Knight.

I then resubmitted you for promotion to Knight of Jediism and I thought you were on your way to getting it when I resigned. Hence my surprise.

:ohmy:

I still think you are ready for Knighthood. I also feel that because of the issues you have faced and setbacks in your advancement may have caused some resentment. Which is understandable. But chose this path and Jediism isn’t about advancing or getting rank. It’s not about what others think you have accomplished or recognizing your work or any of the other trifles so many seem to focus on. Even here!



It is about you, your journey, your personal growth and how the path has affected your life and how that in turn effects the lives of those around you. In my opinion, this is lost or forgotten far too often by far too many.



You don’t have to agree with me. You don’t have to appreciate what I have said. You can even despise me. But that does not affect me or my path. LOL It just is what it is.

Wescli Wardest wrote:
You don’t have to agree with me. You don’t have to appreciate what I have said. You can even despise me. But that does not affect me or my path. LOL It just is what it is.

I do appreciate your comments and I dont despise you. I agree with your comments for the most part as well.

I do think favoritism is a strong influencing factor in the running of this place and that is pretty sad because it blinds people from seeing the very thing they claim to uphold, that of syncreticism. My path is not yours and my beliefs may not be yours and that should be ok. I think it is where you and I are concerned and yes we have come to that understanding, but for others its not.

I think this is what Alan was challenging. The idea that a generational autonomy should be paramount when it comes to apprentice training. People here always talk about the "spirit of the law" but they are loathe to actually give up the power to allow others to enact that spirit. Instead dogma and rigid conformity to the elite point of view reigns. The elite are so scared to let things grow they end up squashing the life out of it. As a result some of the most talented and dedicated people ever to grace these halls have left, you included.

As for my second knighting attempt, it was the same result as the first time. I wrote an appeal and got 5 character references who all wrote letters of reference and I was even sponsored by two knights. I went before the board a second time but was denied again. The excuse... points again. Even though I had already earned the a-div degree and been working diligently in a new journal. Now I have to ask, if the points for the a-div can only be earned in apprenticeship and any AIP points only ever apply to the B-div, how is it I earned the points for A-div on the second attempt and yet still had a points issues on the second attempt knighting? My guess, - favoritism enacted under the guise of an invalid excuse.

The conclusion to all this for me is that if you are a strong willed independent personality here that truly writes your own path, don't plan on getting knighted here.