New Degree System of Jediism?

There's 4, so even you are evidently confused

Again... you have proposed a new system and describe no actual benefits for adopting it, so far as I can see. That things "should be recognised" in the scheme... as I say, they already are.

Finally the H.Div recognising one as "Jedi"... all that is required to be recognised as Jedi is to believe that which is in our Doctrine.

tzb wrote: There's 4, so even you are evidently confused

Again... you have proposed a new system and describe no actual benefits for adopting it, so far as I can see. That things "should be recognised" in the scheme... as I say, they already are.

The benefits, ( read edit I made for you, in my first reaction :blush: ) Equality, rank system have different levels of understanding. But the div. system makes it like there are globally 3 ways of degree. I find it highly confusing that the temple ranks are so many, but with only 3/4 div. What is the purpose or logical behind that?

~ Aqua

At the moment there's really only two though...

D.Div has more or less been scrapped, and M.Div has been suspended for a long time now




I find the system that we are left with very simple and non-confusing:

Knighthood = half a degree (A.Div)
Senior Knight(hood) = a whole degree (B.Div)

Pretty straightforward, right?

V-Tog wrote: At the moment there's really only two though...

D.Div has more or less been scrapped, and M.Div has been suspended for a long time now




I find the system that we are left with very simple and non-confusing:

Knighthood = half a degree (A.Div)
Senior Knight(hood) = a whole degree (B.Div)

Pretty straightforward, right?

Mm.. I made this split of after the faq post.. I can not find something about a half degree in the faq? It confuses me. :dry: Tried to bring up a old idea, but that seems to be not so good of me..

Having more degrees would complicate matters, they seem superfluous whereas the ones we have now (of which there are two) actually correspond to significant steps in your learning.

tzb wrote: Your depiction of the current scheme also misses the M.Div, Master of Divinity, gained with Senior Knighthood and completion of Seminary.

Regarding M.Div and D.Div, neither are actually a thing anymore, because we don't have any policies designed to actually grant them. The reason the D.Div is there is because I chose to leave mention of it, and when it was used it was used honorifically. The post-Knighthood part of the degree needs to be changed, if it includes degrees beyond B.Div we'll just have to wait and see.

Ok. The Details of Degree Scheme post pinned in the forum still lists them, I wasn't aware they'd been scrapped. My bad

Akkarin wrote: Having more degrees would complicate matters, they seem superfluous whereas the ones we have now (of which there are two) actually correspond to significant steps in your learning.

tzb wrote: Your depiction of the current scheme also misses the M.Div, Master of Divinity, gained with Senior Knighthood and completion of Seminary.

Regarding M.Div and D.Div, neither are actually a thing anymore, because we don't have any policies designed to actually grant them. The reason the D.Div is there is because I chose to leave mention of it, and when it was used it was used honorifically. The post-Knighthood part of the degree needs to be changed, if it includes degrees beyond B.Div we'll just have to wait and see.

Guess that, your words answer my question :blush:

Aqua wrote: I can not find something about a half degree in the faq? It confuses me. :dry:

We try not to talk about the nitty-gritty of this stuff too much, but the B.Div is a Bachelors degree and therefore is equivalent to what is commonly thought of as 'a degree' - i.e. when you go to university in the traditional sense, you graduate with a Bachelors degree (at least, in the UK we call it that!).

Here at TOTJO that degree (the B.Div) is worth 400 points/credits. All of the work that you complete over your entire time here contributes to these 400 points.

At the point of becoming a Knight you would have earned 200 points/credits so far, which is the requirement for the A.Div - so you can see that numerically speaking, it is quite literally half of the full B.Div degree.

Does that help?

V-Tog wrote:

Aqua wrote: I can not find something about a half degree in the faq? It confuses me. :dry:

We try not to talk about the nitty-gritty of this stuff too much, but the B.Div is a Bachelors degree and therefore is equivalent to what is commonly thought of as 'a degree' - i.e. when you go to university in the traditional sense, you graduate with a Bachelors degree (at least, in the UK we call it that!).

Here at TOTJO that degree (the B.Div) is worth 400 points/credits. All of the work that you complete over your entire time here contributes to these 400 points.

At the point of becoming a Knight you would have earned 200 points/credits so far, which is the requirement for the A.Div - so you can see that numerically speaking, it is quite literally half of the full B.Div degree.

Does that help?

Ehm, you do give me more questions. Sorry :blush: But I have never heard of the point system, something for FAQ maybe?

tzb wrote: Ok. The Details of Degree Scheme post pinned in the forum still lists them, I wasn't aware they'd been scrapped. My bad

Fixed. Personally I always forget about the forum posts, I don't really use them, because I find articles better lol. So if anyone finds posts containing stuff which seems out of date please let me know because the information is most likely wrong.

Aqua, the points are a system of keeping track of the progress of the student.

The IP is worth 100 points. And, the apprenticeship is worth 100 points (give or take). However, the only people who keep track of the points are the training masters. The Apprentices are unaware of the points they are getting because we don't want people just trying to collect points.

We do not discuss points with people under the Knighthood rank generally. Sorry if that doesn't help much. haha.

In general, the Degree Scheme is ONLY for people who have been Knighted. The Degree forums are hidden from view until being Knighted.

Though, by completing the IP and an Apprenticeship you have completed an Associates Degree (or, as V calls it.. half a degree).

I think the point is that people below the Knight rank don't have much to do with the degree scheme, which is why the information about it is confusing to people who aren't already Knights.

I am still waiting for somebody to come along and tell me what they think the PURPOSE of the Degree Scheme is.

Connor L. wrote: I am still waiting for somebody to come along and tell me what they think the PURPOSE of the Degree Scheme is.

Removing it is always a possibility. I would not mis it to be honest. :blush:

Aqua wrote: Ehm, you do give me more questions. Sorry :blush: But I have never heard of the point system, something for FAQ maybe?

It's because it can be very distracting - it can be tempting to focus on accumulating points rather than just enjoying the studies.

The points exist as a means to an end (a way of fairly verifying the qualifications) but are not supposed to mean anything much more than that - if they were mentioned and explained all over the place it might give the impression that we put a lot of focus on them, which would be counter-productive.

What do you think?

V-Tog wrote:

Aqua wrote: Ehm, you do give me more questions. Sorry :blush: But I have never heard of the point system, something for FAQ maybe?

It's because it can be very distracting - it can be tempting to focus on accumulating points rather than just enjoying the studies.

The points exist as a means to an end (a way of fairly verifying the qualifications) but are not supposed to mean anything much more than that - if they were mentioned and explained all over the place it might give the impression that we put a lot of focus on them, which would be counter-productive.

What do you think?

Thank you saying V. :blush: , could not agree more now you all mention it like that.. Dit not thought about the training master and points in that way before Now you say it like that, do not want to know it with that in my mind. To come back on the words of Connor, would removing this div. system be good? What would the consequences be if it would be gone?

~ Aqua

Connor L. wrote: I am still waiting for somebody to come along and tell me what they think the PURPOSE of the Degree Scheme is.

The Degree lessons are a peer-reviewed compilation of lessons created by TotJO's Teaching Masters; to study the Degree is to study under each of the Teaching Masters at TotJO. This provides a well-rounded and comprehensive programme to learn from.

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/degreescheme

You've completed one Apprenticeship, feel you've developed yourself? Good. Now here's enough work for two more...

I feel I should point out that Knights do not only use the degree scheme (if they use it at all) to continually develop themselves.

The purpose of the Degree scheme!? I would have thought it would be ones application of effort here, in the topics here. It's not after all meant to be a measure of something like 'Jediiness', but a chance for Jedi to focus in similar topics and support each other as a community, IMO.

Warning; hypothetical follows

To be specific, if you need some structure to conceptualize what a degree might mean then maybe you could it be to associate awards level's as measures of a change in the relative depth explored by the student.

This could work by using a core set of topics (like in the IP) which are defined by the student in the IP, and then as they expand on those topics in other programs like Apprenticeship and say Knights Program, Masters Program etc.

The Core topics would be expanded upon by electives in different ways in different programs, with the Apprenticeship being about the more guided relationship to Knighthood, then being any Knight program being open for the Knight to choose/create electives to expand their understanding of the Core material in their own directions. This could allow the Master's level to really be a larger commitment, perhaps a thesis type of thing.... then the concept of a TOTJO Divinity degree.

We sort of cannot just have a bunch of awards without it being related to each other, but we don't want to redo the same material each time, so its all I could come up with to keep a consistent theme. Luckily IMO the IP has enough breadth of topics to cover exploration in more then one area, and so if we change slightly the way the material is interacted with at each level, to invite expansion of understanding around it, then it seems a legit approach to me. Just one idea though, but might be better then the others I've had since it really knuckles down on building up from a foundation.

I'm not convinced that's a good enough reason. Especially when it could be wrapped into the rank system.

One other thing, where was this when we were discussing the Degree Scheme last year?

The idea of having a big pool of lessons for continuing education is fantastic. I love that and what we have. But why are they degrees?

I do not disagree with the principle... Just that maybe we should be clear on what a degree is and what it does for the person. Benchmarks aren't too useful... People who are Knight rank probably do not need the validation that comes with working for a number of points.

EDIT: My point is that the degree scheme offers more "issues" and confusion than it does pros and positive growth. So, we should reverse that or get rid of it until such a time when it becomes useful.

What does a div. covers, what a rank does not? I feel confused even more now..

Connor L. wrote: IOne other thing, where was this when we were discussing the Degree Scheme last year

Is that to me? AFAIK the Committee was setup to investigate and brainstorm how to build a degree scheme, not why to have one. I'd assume they'd already have a purpose or quickly agree on one at the outset, otherwise why have a committee about it. If it was a committee about 'what is the purpose of the degree scheme' then that would have been my feedback, but I thought you guys were working on the best way to develop a program. But I wasn't on the committee so I wouldn't know.

As to the rest of your post. Milestone's are useful in helping people apply themselves more effectively by giving them something tangible to schedule with their other activities. Validation about achievement is optional, but certainly inherit in effort that equates to progress. I could equally argue it is more of an exercise to undertake it and not feel validation then ignore it not to feel validation.