The Mormons...

Well Perris You know where I stand on this subject seeing as I am a Utah Mormon And have been all of my 18 years, I see the church not only as a religion but as a culture and a way of life.

What an awesome story brother, thank you for sharing it with us, I think that I'm being tested as I come in contact with more and more Mormons here in the church of course they are all the cool ones, the ones that can see beyond the facade of their own faith, I have had some troubble with the reintergration of my partners roots after hearing so long about whhat they did do him and people growing up gay in the church, his relitives are truely very loving to me although it took some time after the first family reunion, I was starting to be accepted as part of the family, not everyone at firstof course could handel the Idea of us being together and i was refered to the other family members as \"his friend, \"special friend\"and room mate.
after the second family reunion all the reletives realized that this was not a phase and that I was not going anywhere. (They do their family reunions every three years)
We have been together for 15 years and I have been to a number of reunions,I have been to Ensign Ranch and Aspen Grove (both very beautiful places), I have a special patch on grandmothers quilt that was presented to her on her 90th birthday, all the grandchildren, her children, her grandchildren and spouses, you an imagine how big this quilt was, when I attended my partners sisters wedding I was included in all the family pictures, I think the photogrpher was lesbian, but it fit because his sister converted to Greek Orthodox, all of his family have spent many hours with me, My partner and I have seen many weddings but sadly many more devorces, It always makes me sad to see that when it comes to splitting up, we have vowed never to do that, i knew from the first day I met him that I wanted to be with him forever we dated for 4 months and then he broke up with me for a year and we went on our seperate ways. (I'm comming to my point soon
So now 15 years and I know everything about the mormon faith my has told me all I neede to know to keep me as far away from it and to behave my self when I am at family functions, actualy hewas more of an trouble maker comming to family reunion wearing bright red finger nail polish on hands and feet, that is how he came out at the family reunion.
This was the year when he broke up with me. anyhoo 15 years forward, he has started to go back to the church, study the Mormon text again at the same time attending teh Sunstone Symposium and Affermation You and read more about him and his journy on his web page www.youngstranger.com
My conflict is I know that the big church in Utah does not approve of us adn I'm not asking for any validation either because in fromnt of 115 people and God as our witness, his parents and sisters , my parents and sisters and his grandmother who flew form Fresno, Ca were all there and participated in it, i keep hoping that someday the LDS church will come around to seeing what my partners see as a long term lasting relationship and God is pleased.
There is a small part of me that still rejects that part of him and i can not go to the church with him as he has told me of some of the out right homophobia being taught there it the ward his parents go to, his father has even written letter complaning to the Bishop, the Ward he goes to now is a little more liberal although that has taken some time (almost like Jane Goodall ), so how to support him noew that I have found my place my new center in this Order of the jedi, part of me wants to go with him so they can see a \"real Live Gay couple\" and the other part has discouraged him from even talking about it with me. not all Mormons are evil or hate us but it is hart to sit in a place of worship that will not even include me in the sacrement, (At our church the one we attend together a UCC church) they let everyone partake in teh feast. the paster alwyays says Christ sets the tabel and all are invited, not just some or the ones who think they are chosen, hmmm what to do, now that the light of Jediism as been shown to me i feel compailed to go.
well this is my longest responce ever but i wanted it out in teh universe, any advice that my Master, brothers and sisters could give me I will check this topic form time to time.
Thank you all for listening as I learn.

Mojiimoto - Padawan

Mojiimoto, your courage and love for your partner is refreshing. But wwe all know it's not just the Mormons, but numerous faiths that can not face the reality that \"here it is\"! I commend you on the positive spirit you show to step away and live your life.

I had a dealing the other day that saddens me a little. I was talking with my home teachers and brought up the question about women and the Clergy or Ordainment. I got the standard lecture that Ordainment is the mens jobs. But all men will say, if it wasn't for their wives, they could do the job asked of them.... but my mind kept kicking me back to female missionaries. If women can not baptize as the male missionaires do, do they have the men perform the Ceremony. And that just doen't sit well with me on that. The female missionaries do all the same work in the teachings as the men, but not when it comes to priesthood duties.

So, I can tell you, I still have not brought up the fact of being Clergy. Not just yet. I'm not ashamed, just waiting for my Heavenly Father to let me know when to bark it out..... Then I'll take the steps he and the force guides me through.

Just my two cents......

After having taken lessons and the necessary preparation my baptism into the Mormon Church was all set. Then on the night before I recieved a phone call that it would be first necessary for me to move out, because of me sharing the appartment and cost with a friend (who was a woman). They explained would give the wrong impression. Since we had no relationship, and we were great friends, I did not want to insult her and called the whole thing off.

I must say though that some of the deepest discusions I have had in the Christian world were with the Mormons. Their sense of conviction is also aweinspiring.

Why so many bad experiences, we are not all bad. there are those of us who believe that everything is black and white and then there are others of us who believe that god wants us to have a little wiggle room from time to time. no one should be told that the choices they are making are wrong when they don't know the full extent of the circumstances. God gave us free agency as a way of being free to make our own decisions and then be held accountible whether for good or for bad. every religion has their good and bad about them it's up to you as individuals to discover just what they are.

Trojan Princess wrote:

Why so many bad experiences, we are not all bad. there are those of us who believe that everything is black and white and then there are others of us who believe that god wants us to have a little wiggle room from time to time. no one should be told that the choices they are making are wrong when they don't know the full extent of the circumstances. God gave us free agency as a way of being free to make our own decisions and then be held accountible whether for good or for bad. every religion has their good and bad about them it's up to you as individuals to discover just what they are.

Experiences are what we ourselves make of them. They certainly don`t make anyone else good or bad. In my case, my experience opened other doors, it was the path I had to take. Trojan Princess you are right, that everything is left upto us to respond in our innate right of freedom.

I agree with you 100% and as I continualy learn what my wiggle room is in life, I find that I do need to be tested on my openess towards other people and take them on a person by person evaluation, not all the time does one bad apple spoil the whole berrel you must look at each apple and pick the best of the bunch.
I've not had any \"Bad\" experence with the Mormons, it is with just some of the Ideals that I have a problem with, my three catagories for how a church body dictates how welcoming it is, Blacks, Women and Homosexuals.
Finaly after the 60's Blacks are invited, women well it still needs work and Homosexuals even more work.
I have no doubt that in time (not today as I keep my mind in the here and now) the LDS church will welcome all, I know this because a lot of the youth that my partner has come in contact with have been asking a lot of qhy questions and that is when you know a church is starting to grow up when it is not afraid to ask why.
Why should we keep X,Y and Z out, what does it serve in worshiping the lord, is the message and good news for everyone who wants to hear it.
Free will, yes Trojan Princess we all have it and that is why we have the ability evolve beyond our phobias and sexism.
On a side note I am enjoying reading all the points of view on this subject as it helps me a lot to being true to the force a Jedi of the light.
MTFBWY

In my travels, I have learned several things about the Mormon faith.

I have found Mormons to be more devout in their beliefs and standards then other christian faiths, which I find commendable.

I have found Mormons to be less then receptive to other ideas, which is very commen in the christian faiths.

I am a christian, and while I do not believe in the book of Mormon, just as I do not believe in the Koran, I respect it as a holy book because Mormons respect it as a holy book.

While I have philosophical and doctrinal differences with the Mormon faith, as I do with most christian faiths, I see the underlying principles of Christianity. The belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior and the acknowledgement of his crucifiction as a sacrifice for the sins of man.

At the roots of the faith, I can agree that they are part of the christian community, and not a cult as many believe. And for that, I respect them and their faith.

Before I say anything, it is my opinion that anyone who with a true heart put their trust in Jesus Christ is a Christian. It is also my experience that no Chruch (with no exceptions) is free from exclusiveness nor inclusiveness. To compare one Church with another and put them on an evaluation scale is to do great injustice to its members.
One reason I can think of why for example the Christian Church of the Latter Day Saints is not accepted by the other Christian Churches is because the latter have only the Bible as a written source of revelation whereas the prior has the Bible and the Book of Mormon. This does make a difference as far as communality is concerned.

I feel that mormons are one of the most devoted groups to God. I once dated a mormon, and although she was not active in the church, I could honestly say that she at her spiritual lowest was higher than I was at one of my highest. I love the mormon faith and have in the past sharply defended it from anybody who dared to say that mormons aren't christians. I also get upset when \"polygamy\" and \"mormon\" are used together. Polygamy is no more in the church and people need to understand this.