ATTN: COUNCIL; Updated Doctrine Proposal

I'm a Lore-Junky, so why not give a nod to the the inspiration??

"Jediism is a religious school of thought based on the observance of the Force as the universal and living energy that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the fundamental nature of the universe."

Living Force and Unifying Force? Or maybe switch the two around?

@Rex: Right now? It’s open to everyone. Later: Just members. I think Br. John wanted the group to decide rather than just the Council.

Heh, Still another 30 days until I can set aside the time to think about this properly.

Not that my views would have any great inspiration to them....

Still, "model UN" sort of thing - what happens at a diplomatic event when not enough people turn up? is it still diplomacy, or does it become....something else?

You still have time James. Right now we're just working on the definition of the Force. As you can see, the conversation just got more complicated as new words have come in.

Here's an idea, however, why not take a singular principle and think on it throughout the course of a day. Consider if it actually makes sense. As you come across one that you don't or you think you can turn into something shorter and still hit the mark- post about it on here. It's a much faster process than waiting for time to look at the whole at once. In fact, when you CAN look at the whole all at once, it will become a much faster task after you've considered each.

If you find it important, you'll find a way to accomplish the mission. If not, well I guess you just have to trust in your fellow Jedi to make the decisions. After all, something could come up between now and that day you believe you have time.

If you find it important, you'll find a way to accomplish the mission. If not, well I guess you just have to trust in your fellow Jedi to make the decisions. After all, something could come up between now and that day you believe you have time.

Heh, the things I find important are, for the moment, directed to me. The things I find important personally have no room to be addressed for another 25 odd days....

Right now my family doesn't even have access to chairs or a refrigerator, and that is not even at the top of my priorities


I am somewhat invested in TotJO's "brand" going forward - ack that ToTJO can't wait for little old me to "get around to it" however.

That's completely understandable. And it just shows that there are any number of things that could happen between now and then.

Learning to have faith in your fellow Jedi may prove good for you though. If I didn't have faith in the membership here, I would have proposed my idea and not offered others to weigh in.

If this is still being discussed by the time you get time to consider things, then it was meant to be. ^^

First, I'd like to thank Alethea for tackling this. She has put in a lot of effort to look at something a lot of us look at only a few times. I 100% support Alethea. I believe the need does exist. And I would caution us from getting too deep (too late) or continuing a "conservative" vs "progressive" style debate because this, for me, isn't about the doctrines being "broken", but rather the wording/communication/expression being something that had room for improvement. If you believe in the Jedi Path, then I dare say we should all recognize that we aren't perfect. We're trying to "get somewhere". And because we aren't perfect, nothing we create, is by definition... perfect. The idea that someone could come along later and improve something doesn't mean what was previously there is wrong or that changing it is some form of disrespect. I love who I was 30 years ago. That doesn't mean I have to think, believe, or speak the same as I did back then. So for all those who are like "why do we need to do this?" The real question is "why not do it?" Things grow. Things evolve. This includes the Force and we, as expressions of it.

Second, I had the honor of helping in this endeavor and I really respect the fact that Alethea was open to other people putting their 2 cents in and making it a group effort. Part of what I'm hearing is a desire to be vague in order to accommodate the multitude of thought expressed in TOTJO. Allow me to make some of you uncomfortable once again by talking about race, lol. Not on purpose, of course. I love all you guys and desire understanding above all.

In the black community (which I can speak for to some extent) there is a beautiful multitude of shades and color in the physical sense just as there are plenty of views and ideas. It is not hardly a monolith and yet is still represented by one single word. "Black". And even this word has certain controversies attached, but the power comes from having a shared experience which produces a common culture.

Religion, we need to keep in mind, for all this "we wanna be a religion/church" is, in reality, dangerous.

Most religions do have different sects. Christianity has thousands. The problem with sects is that they don't always tend to mix very well. They sometimes have their own words or their own definitions and meanings. This may be somewhat unavoidable. Beliefs tend to clash. The more "out there" a belief is the more it will clash with folks who are more into logic and reason.

What I want to see is more of a common culture and shared experience being the connective tissue that links us all together. Because if you want me to believe "Reiki" is Jedi.... I'm going to respectfully disagree every time. And we can debate that point but I'm probably not going to be convinced. Just being real with you. I don't want to make the same mistakes religions from antiquity have made where they change the story to match their beliefs. There should be a difference between what "WE BELIEVE" and what "I (personally) believe". This is important because if I had seen "Jedi believe ....Reiki.... " in the doctrine I probably would have moved on. The doctrines are a place for the people who are not Jedi to understand what a Jedi is and what we believe. The whole "its a mystery" thing is not the right place for doctrines. Doctrines are what you believe, not what you think might possibly potentially maybe I dunno idk err could be. Rastafarians have a lot of diversity of thought too. And that is also classified as a religion. But guess what? There are Rastas that don't believe in the bible, Rastas that are into more Kemetic practices, etc.

Because Doctrines are mostly for people on the outside looking in (also internal organizing helps when you start off with something more simple) it needs to be clear and simple and free of grammatical and spelling issues. If I'm with my family and I'm telling them what I believe and I obviously want them to take me seriously, I don't want them googling something in the back ground with spelling errors and contradictions. The idea that contradictions are somehow helpful, no... I disagree and am more than happy to debate that with you.

I want being Jedi to be like being black. It doesn't mean we have to all agree but that there is a common core of experience and understanding that we can all support and maintain. And if there are Jedi who personally believe in fairies and trolls, then that okay. That's them. It doesn't need to be an entire sect. And arguably sects already exist between light, dark, and grey. The point of updating the doctrines is not to fundamentally change all of this but rather to make it all sound better. Using fewer words is part of that process, and this is coming from a guy who uses MANY MANY words. Fewer words is like shorter urls. It's better if you can do it because its easier to convey, easier to memorize, easier to tweet, etc. It's easier to digest. Now if you want something more wordy then link the simple doctrine to a more lengthy article that provides in-depth explanation/analysis. That's why hyperlinks were invented. You can have your cake and eat it too.

But someone's going to feel left out. Really?

I don't recall intending to do this when I gave my recommendations and again, everyone was invited to help in the effort.

I think my original suggestion was:
Jediism is a religious path and school of thought based on the understanding and personal attunement to the Force, an omnipresent and etheric divine energy that a Jedi (a follower of Jediism) believes to be the fundamental nature of the universe. A Jedi further believes that the Force is manifest through all life, and thusly seek to unlock the mystery of how to balance and eventually become one with the Force through enlightenment rooted in philosophies similar to those present in the epic space opera called “Star Wars”.

I do support other versions but I want to go over some notes about this one that can help inform or consolidate other attempts. Please keep in mind these are just my suggestions/opinions/experience based on being in and around several religions over the course of 40 years.

1. Jedi
I think its important to note that things should be balanced as much as possible which means providing limits. Do you want to be so vague that you sound like every other religion? Because if you sound like every other religion then what's the point or purpose of saying "Jedi"? There has to be a point to using that word; otherwise you make to no effect.

2. "omnipresent, etheric, divine"
these words were not chosen at random. Oxygen is pretty "ubiquitous" but there's no religion based around the presence of oxygen. the word omnipresent captures the same meaning and intention but it has a religious connotation which gives the Force a more distinct flavor. But when YOU use the words, YOU get to define them beyond the common usage. So if you don't want to use this word or that because you think it belongs to someone else, rethink that. Because if you keep thinking like that every religious word will become off limits to you. If Jediism is a religion to you or a "religious path" as it is to me, then you have to take ownership of religious terminology and use it in the way that YOU mean. There were many words in the bible that were honorifics used for the king. In Christianity these same words are only used for God because they became disconnected with the original meaning. The Force IS "godlike or like a God". Do it is, by definition, "divine" and I'm not scared to say so. If it is NOT divine then why have a religion at all? Might as well be a book club. Again, if you ask Rastafarians about Selassie, they will definitely tell you he is divine and that mutual respect and adoration is a common thread.

Etheric- (Ether) 5. Physics An all-pervading, infinitely elastic, massless medium formerly postulated as the medium of propagation of electromagnetic waves.

I chose words that were both religious and scientific because I think we can all agree that the Force (in some form) exists, that it is everywhere, and that we are connected to it and we all respect it. If any of these things is NOT true I would say "that's interesting" and probably wonder why you're here. This isn't to say I want to exclude people or "weed out" anyone, but rather offer a clear sense of what it is and why we're here.

3. Star Wars.
I don't care who doesn't like it. If Star Wars was somehow erased from the pages of history, we would not be here on this site. I just wouldn't exist. Jediism or whatever version of whatever you want to call it, would simply not exist. And so I think its important to mention the source of inspiration because you're not going to be able to hide from it and you should be scared of being connected to it. Why? What are you trying to hide? That you like Star Wars? Just accept it. You think people don't know because you add some extra letters at the end? Who are you fooling? Embrace it. People are going to come to this site and see pics of people posing with toy light sabers. You can't get around it so stop trying to. Embrace it. It's far more honest and people will respect you for that honesty. We use the same exact Jedi Code you can find on wookipedia. As long as that is true then we are Jedi. Period. It's up to us to define what that means and not try to dodge every word that could possibly rub someone the wrong way. Use hyperlinks and make them understand it.

If we can't write a wikepedia article similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_theology

...because we're too afraid of making someone feel left out then don't tell me its a religion because at that point its just a club for people of DIFFERENT RELIGIONS who have a SHARED INTEREST in Star Wars mythology.

Now if we just want to be a club that's fine. But if we cannot build on a core value system with beliefs and practices that reinforce our doctrines, because we're too afraid of people calling themselves Jedi but not being able to fit in, then we're basically just a club, trying to define itself by anyone who shows up for the party. Someone shows up to the party with a birthday cake we'll say its a birthday party. Someone comes in a mouse costume we'll call it a costume party. Someone brings a rifle we'll call it a hunting party. As some point YOU have to define what kind of party it is so that people who show up know what its about and everyone isn't defining and redefining us based on whatever they personally choose to bring. But you have to decide. Club or religion. This, imo, is where we need to agree and build upon a common foundation.

I have a question about doctrine, which might seem minor, but I feel (at the moment) will inform all other aspects of doctrine...


Do Jedi seek to only understand the world, or do they seek to submit it to their will?

Before all the "oh, subjugating things is a dark/sith/bad guy/whatever I don't care trait" - the doctrine says things like "Guard", and many members here have, in one way or another, suggested a Jedi is bound to act as a sort of everything-police, (even if that is in a "good way" like protecting someone who is being kicked when down etc etc)

To be a Jedi, does that mean at some point you have to decide that your will is correct, and use your resources to change the reality around you to be aligned with your will.

It's a little thing, perhaps, but it sets the tone for whether the Jedi "mission" for lack of a better word is an internal one, or an external one.