General Assembly of the Clergy July 8, 2023 10:00 AM Pacific

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9 months 1 week ago #373466 by Locksley
The compromised redraft below came about through a collaboration today with a trusted friend. As we talked about the principles of education, spirituality, and German Romanticism, I hit upon a phrase I've seen used elsewhere that very neatly captures a lot of the meaning that we're aiming for.

I want to stress that my aim is some degree of universality and inclusivity. Avoiding certain terminology is helpful for a broader audience, and while any terms can contain problematic areas, I want to try to talk about the deep aspects of reality without resorting to too much rococo phrasing.

[hr]

Proposed Redraft of Teaching #5:
Jedi comprehend that we are beings of thought, feeling, and will, who flourish within the Force through self-aware action and lifelong learning.*

[hr]

Thought is that which Alex describes as many of the aspects of the Soul. Feeling is all that is phenomenal experience, the experience of being embodied, or "incarnate," but without the weaker term "Body." Will contains the dimensions Alex sees linked to Spirit, thought. These are the "threefold essence" in a different tongue. We avoid ornate terminology, and we allow general understanding to initially prevail while setting the stage for deeper exploration and learning.

Likewise, we avoid terms found within both new-age movements and Christianity.

Furthermore, we re-inject something that was lost in the previous proposal: the sense of training, practice, and the expectation of momentum and growth.

We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away. -- J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5

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9 months 1 week ago - 9 months 1 week ago #373467 by Alexandre Orion
I admire the way this is going. Thank you, Odin ! :cheer:

Your contention with both Christianity and New Age (or at the very least, their associated terminology) is effectively that common terrain we were looking for. Even when I held the functionary office of Pastor here, we acknowledged the ponderous connotations in "religious" terms - even the new-agey uptakes on Eastern religions/philosophies that became profitably westernised after the Second World War - how those hinder understanding more than foster it (cf. Saussure, entre autres).

You've done well with this. We hadn't considered putting up Schopenhauer's notion of the Will in the place of that of Spirit, but it fits. Let's pursue this ...

It is also very apt to put forward the fundamental reality that this involves continual, perpetual training/learning. It isn't like getting a diploma and graduating -- we have to constantly work towards our ideals though we'll never achieve perfection in them.

The only hesitation with your proposed version and its explanation (which is very sound, by the way !) is that it may be a bit reductive to try to get rid of the physical body from the Teaching. It is a particularly insideous abberation of common language that we have bodies rather than that we indeed are bodies (cf. Merleau-Ponty). We probably need to keep that in there somehow, since our thought, feeling and expression of the Will are dependent on our corporeal embodiement. Moreover, we must train/exercise/care for our bodies even via those thoughts, feelings and hopefully in accordance with the Will. It gets a bit reflexively circular...

Thus, let's continue this exploration. It feels like we're going in the right direction. :)

Please thank your friend from us as well. This input has been quite valuable. ;)

Be a philosopher ; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man.
~ David Hume

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
~ Henri Bergson
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Last edit: 9 months 1 week ago by Alexandre Orion.
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9 months 1 week ago #373474 by Carlos.Martinez3
It's today

Pastor of Temple of the Jedi Order
pastor@templeofthejediorder.org
Build, not tear down.
Nosce te ipsum / Cerca trova

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9 months 1 week ago - 9 months 1 week ago #373478 by Alexandre Orion

You've done well with this. We hadn't considered putting up Schopenhauer's notion of the Will in the place of that of Spirit, but it fits. Let's pursue this ...


This is going to take some effortful "pursuing" though. Although the Will in the German romantic transcendental idealism (Schopenhauer didn't stick with Kant either) is very much alligned with our notion of the Force. This is also a way of illustrating the omnipresent risk of the Dark Side...

Yet, we ought deviate from The World as Will and Representation, especially with regard to Schopenhauer's conclusions - in and about when he pivoted from philosophy to mysticism - as for him (et al.) one ends up revolted by the Will. This is not unreasonable, but perhaps only reason-able (cf. Critique of Pure Reason, Kant) Let's not let ourselves become revolted by the Force.

I don't think this will be an unsurmountable obstacle, after all, there have been many developments in the 200 years thence. We're already on the right path by considering the intellect (thought) as complementary with feeling, which 18th-19th century writers were hostile to. Even Schopenhauer treated compassion as an intellectual result. So, anyway, let's take it further along this path and see where we end up. :)

Be a philosopher ; but, amidst all your philosophy, be still a man.
~ David Hume

Chaque homme a des devoirs envers l'homme en tant qu'homme.
~ Henri Bergson
[img
Last edit: 9 months 1 week ago by Alexandre Orion.
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9 months 1 week ago #373480 by Locksley

Alexandre Orion wrote: I admire the way this is going. Thank you, Odin ! :cheer:

The only hesitation with your proposed version and its explanation (which is very sound, by the way !) is that it may be a bit reductive to try to get rid of the physical body from the Teaching.


Thank you, I'm pleased that I was able to actually offer a constructive element to my initial deconstructive points!

Regarding the physical nature of the body. The term "corporeal" is one I've found useful for this context.

Possibly: "Jedi comprehend that we are beings of thought, feeling, and will, who flourish corporally within the Force through self-aware action and lifelong learning."

I also considered: "Jedi comprehend that we are corporeal beings of thought, feeling, and will, who flourish corporally within the Force through self-aware action and lifelong learning." But this seemed to limit our reality to something bordering on an overt atomistic view, something I've also sought to avoid. In something like a Teaching, out there fore everyone, there's so much that can change with just the order of the words, or a change in form.

As I mentioned earlier, I can see the reasons why "Incarnated" was chosen to suit this need, though "Incarnated" carries the potential suggestion of an Outside "incarnator" and this is something to be avoided. My qualms about that word are, ultimately, minimal. These teachings need not be perfect at the get-go, and revision and exploration (and, more importantly, expansion of definition through apocryphal documents) should help it all make sense.

I have to turn my attention elsewhere for the time being, but I'm hopeful that the points I've raised have ultimately been fruitful for the discussion being had today by the Clergy.

We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away. -- J. Michael Straczynski, Babylon 5

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9 months 1 week ago - 9 months 1 week ago #373481 by Rosalyn J
The Meeting Minutes are below. Thank you all

Warning: Spoiler!

Pax Per Ministerium
[img



Last edit: 9 months 1 week ago by Rosalyn J.
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9 months 1 week ago #373482 by jpadkins
Current Teaching 2:
2. Jedi maintain a clear mind; which can be achieved through meditation and contemplation. Our minds can become unduly troubled and concerned with the happenings of the world. We must work on overcoming our individual issues through training and diligence.

New Teaching
To be in balance, the Jedi practise clarity of mind. Aware that representations of the world can cloud our understanding, the Jedi centre their awareness through the practice of meditation and contemplation.

Rewrite:
To be in balance, the Jedi practise clarity of soul. Aware that representations of the world can cloud our understanding, the Jedi centre their awareness through the practice of meditation, contemplation, and creation.

Reasoning: continuity with teaching 5

Current teaching 9:
9. Jedi have integrity. We are authentic to what we believe and are open, honest and true to our purpose and our minds. We remove all masks to reveal ourselves as courageous and noble of heart. We do not hide from fear of damage to our image because we know that our image cannot be blemished from the words and actions of others.

New Teaching:
The Jedi maintain integrity, our individuated wholeness. We practice to foster the awareness of our interconnection with all other phenomena, thus ensuring authenticity in our interactions with others and our capacity to accept our limitations and those in interaction with us.
Following from the Ninth Teaching:

Rewrite:
The Jedi maintain Integrity, our individuated wholeness. We practice being true to our word and ideas, accepting, acknowledging, and taking responsibility for the impact when we fall short separate from morality. In doing so ensuring authenticity in our interactions with others.

Reasoning: Integrity is being whole and complete. It has no moral value yet lack of integrity can have impact and implications that we must take responsibility for and possibly take appropriate actions for the wholeness for ourselves and interconnection with all other phenomena.

JP Adkins
Apprentice
Licensed Minister of Jediism
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House of Br John
TM- Raxicorico
” May you feel the presence of the Force because the Force is always with you.”
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9 months 1 week ago #373483 by Rosalyn J
ooooh very good options

Ive always considered that in addition to wholeness, intergrity means to be consistent. Not to be a weed tossed by the wind and such

Pax Per Ministerium
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9 months 1 week ago #373485 by jpadkins
how about this...

The Jedi maintain Integrity, our individuated wholeness. We practice being true to our word and ideas, accepting, acknowledging, and taking responsibility for the impact when we are inconsistent - separate from morality. In doing so ensuring authenticity in our interactions with others.

JP Adkins
Apprentice
Licensed Minister of Jediism
Journals- IP / Apprentice / Seminary / AP /
Degrees Tracker
House of Br John
TM- Raxicorico
” May you feel the presence of the Force because the Force is always with you.”
The following user(s) said Thank You: Alexandre Orion, Rosalyn J, Serenity Amyntas

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