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Meeting of the Clergy August 28, 2022 7PM GMT/ 12 PM PST
1 year 3 months ago #370057
by 666
Replied by 666 on topic Meeting of the Clergy August 28, 2022 7PM GMT/ 12 PM PST
lol, I may be the most inactive, around here. sorry, new job doesn't give me any free time
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1 year 3 months ago #370059
by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Meeting of the Clergy August 28, 2022 7PM GMT/ 12 PM PST
Heeeeey
It's good to see you
How delightful
Please give your feedback once I post the summary if you want
It's good to see you
How delightful
Please give your feedback once I post the summary if you want
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Serenity Amyntas
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1 year 1 month ago - 1 year 1 month ago #370350
by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic Meeting of the Clergy August 28, 2022 7PM GMT/ 12 PM PST
Oh my Gosh! Thank you for your patience while my computer was being tempermental
here is the transcript for the august meeting
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 8:55:59 AM
<@&493389717748973569> don't forget. There is a meeting 3 hours from now
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 9:05:59 AM
Will there be tea ? ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 9:06:16 AM
Yes
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 9:06:29 AM
yay ! ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:40:16 AM
Sweet Tea
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:40:42 AM
Greetings all
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:43:56 AM
@here
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:49:24 AM
will the meeting be here?
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:50:39 AM
only if there's tea ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:51:25 AM
Does virtual tea count?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:51:36 AM
Hello Alex
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:51:50 AM
May your day be blessed
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:52:04 AM
thanks Carlos... it is
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:52:07 AM
cheers
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:52:42 AM
Right back at ya!
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:53:46 AM
Do you take your tea any special way?
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:54:40 AM
I like a bit of sugar and a drop of milk
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:54:50 AM
Noted
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:55:13 AM
we are looking at goats for milk for the farm this week
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:56:00 AM
Fresh milk and cheese is a attainable thing round here lol
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:57:14 AM
goat cheese is actually healthier for us that cows' milk cheese
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:57:31 AM
and sheep
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:57:40 AM
That is what "they" say
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:59:23 AM
? well, ... yes 'they' do
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:59:37 AM
who are 'they', Carlos ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:00:29 PM
Well the "they" I was referring are the proverbial make believe idea of the common thought which it is not.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:00:34 PM
Hello hello, who is all here?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:00:43 PM
Present
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:00:56 PM
?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:01:38 PM
<@&493389717748973569> the meeting will start shortly
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:01:47 PM
like in 5 minutes
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:02:56 PM
To Alex -the they in this case is the Mormon mom site my wife finds recipes from
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:03:25 PM
They - recommend goats over cows
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:03:39 PM
For small homesteading that is
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:03:52 PM
'they' can be about as pléonastic as 'you' or 'it'
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:04:16 PM
but in this case, the 'they' are several nutritionists I know
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:04:54 PM
Nods understandable, and it is good to know its not just hear say too
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:05:33 PM
Hello
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:05:49 PM
So I want I want to be respectful of the time
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:05:54 PM
Hello Rosalyn
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:06:03 PM
people who pop in can contribute
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:06:17 PM
and we are going to have other meetings like this as well
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:06:47 PM
That said I wanted to help set the intention for this meeting with the Code in its Yet Form
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:07:11 PM
so if everyone present could repeat (type) after me
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:07:22 PM
Emotion, Yet Peace
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:07:34 PM
Emotion, yet peace
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:07:56 PM
Emotion, yet peace
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:08:05 PM
Ignorance, Yet Knowledge
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:08:07 PM
Ignorance, yet knowledge
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:08:13 PM
Ignorance, yet knowledge
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:08:47 PM
Passion, Yet Serenity
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:08:49 PM
Passion, yet Serénité
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:08:49 PM
Passion, yet Serenity
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:09:11 PM
Chaos, Yet Harmony
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:09:14 PM
Chaos, yet Harmony
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:09:23 PM
Chaos, yet Harmonie
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:09:40 PM
Death, Yet the Force
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:09:43 PM
Death, yet the Force
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:09:51 PM
Death, yet the Force
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:10:02 PM
Thank you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:10:24 PM
Now, the only item on the agenda is the Bylaws
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:10:34 PM
2 points of order concerning them
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:11:00 PM
1. Behavior unbecoming is too broad and can lead to a level of fear to speak
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:11:09 PM
lets discuss this please
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:11:23 PM
Should it be rewritten, or stricken
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:11:30 PM
strike it
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:11:30 PM
May I ask why is it too broad?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:12:09 PM
Zantham Storm, a member of the clergy from quite a while ago had concerns
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:12:17 PM
I'll grab what he wrote
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:12:17 PM
I read that
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:13:08 PM
Like I told Ros, if someone does something so heinous as to get defrocked from clergy, we'll probably just put them out of the TotJO
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:13:17 PM
The purposes of the rule or the existence of behavior unbecoming is to be able to catch some one doing wrong or hold them accountable right?
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:13:30 PM
it makes it a little senseless to have that rule
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:13:30 PM
well
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:13:35 PM
it adds a redundancy
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:13:36 PM
rigth Alex isnt that what the rules are for?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:13:43 PM
I see that Alex
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:14:01 PM
there is such rarity of clergy behaving poorly that it might not be needed
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:14:28 PM
99.9% of the time, clergy do well
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:14:44 PM
anyhow here is the quote from Zantham
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:14:47 PM
"The highlighted sections appear to be attempting to put limits on what people say even outside of the Temple and without intent while not representing the Temple. While I do not agree with this, it would be worth giving examples or being specific with these things."
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:15:01 PM
well here is the thing as well Ros
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:15:32 PM
Zero just brought something up
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:15:40 PM
This particular Temple is the Granting body which NEEDS rules and accountability
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:15:47 PM
and that is that all members are held to the rules of moderation
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:15:54 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:15:57 PM
which includes behavior unbecoming
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:16:13 PM
so having it here as well is unnecessary, wouldn't you agree?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:16:29 PM
yup
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:16:34 PM
ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:16:54 PM
so as Alex suggested, are we striking just this section?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:17:05 PM
nods I concur and understand the need
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:17:12 PM
for ease, let me pull the section in question
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:17:18 PM
I don't want the moderators necessarily policing the clergy either
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:17:24 PM
"Behavior Unbecoming which is defined as any behavior that is seen to be outside of the standards set for a Jedi including but not limited to :inappropriate public engagement while representing the Order, inappropriate engagement with members with or without the intent to cause harm, and breaking the rules of moderation."
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:17:36 PM
They "police" the whole temple
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:17:51 PM
necessarily, clergy are under the same "rules"
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:17:52 PM
even *without* the intent to cause harm ?
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:17:55 PM
really ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:18:13 PM
hey, to be fair, I sent this to you like 5 times
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:21 PM
Ros, just strike the section
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:18:23 PM
Moderators are amd should be the rule keepers not enforcers I think buts thats fro another day
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:24 PM
yes, I know
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:18:30 PM
I'm going to
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:31 PM
we even read it together
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:18:40 PM
Strike it
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:48 PM
Cheers, guys
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:58 PM
and yes, Ros, I do forget things ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:19:06 PM
its stricken
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:19:29 PM
lol
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:19:54 PM
ok next thing
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:20:17 PM
you made me lol the kids are napping i think it woke them lol 2 seconds pls
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:20:36 PM
Thank you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:21:16 PM
Here's the next thing:
"Similarly to how we got away from Deacon, Priests and Bishop" in 2017, we're floating the idea of changing our cleric leadership roles to 'Consular' for example Lead Consular, Associate Consular, Consular of Spiritual Care, Consular of Seminary". Obviously, Consular and Councillor are too similar to work, so we were wondering about changing "Council" to "Board of Directors" and "Councillors" to "Board Members". What do you think?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:21:44 PM
I use Pastor
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:22:17 PM
yes, however, it does have a "christian" ring
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:22:37 PM
greek
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:22:52 PM
pastor/parson/person = personae
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:22:56 PM
(mask)
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:23:12 PM
Do I look Cristian to you lol joking but is there a better term?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:23:38 PM
well that may be, but the majority of people are going to think "Pastor" like "old country preacher"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:23:52 PM
and I thought we were trying to get away from that
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:23:58 PM
I really am out of my sort when choosing names for titles, its really not my thing
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:24:11 PM
Call it what you like I have no beef with the title
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:24:35 PM
A few years ago, we pondered the idea of "Magister"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:24:56 PM
I remember that discussion
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:25:22 PM
I got nothing for yall on the subject sorry
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:25:52 PM
Thing is, I like Consular as well...
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:26:01 PM
I don't find it too close to Councillor
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:26:07 PM
lets use that one then
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:26:09 PM
so it looks like it would be
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:26:09 PM
they are utterly different words
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:26:42 PM
im not sure how its going to pan out
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:26:53 PM
because it may be that we can get rid of the OCP
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:27:04 PM
and just use Consular instead
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:27:09 PM
like
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:27:15 PM
why get rid of OCP Just two tier?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:27:23 PM
no listen please
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:28:12 PM
hmmm
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:28:31 PM
actually I do know we need that three teir
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:29:32 PM
so, once one is licensed, their just a LM
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:29:37 PM
like we have already
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:29:56 PM
but then instead of OCP it would be "Consular"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:30:15 PM
and Sr. OCP would be "Senior Consular"
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:30:36 PM
and then????? I m joking that does sound right
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:31:00 PM
and then we could have "super sayan consular"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:31:09 PM
i kid
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:31:11 PM
shaking my head
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:31:25 PM
funny
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:32:20 PM
why not "High Consular" to differentiate it a bit from "Senior Knight"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:32:20 PM
im trying to think is there anything else
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:32:40 PM
because I don't smoke ganja
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:32:48 PM
i mean idk
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:33:00 PM
I think thats a bit high falutin
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:33:01 PM
High counslar sounds ....army like like too high ....
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:33:18 PM
Like ego high
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:33:23 PM
?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:36:11 PM
Are we in agreement over the names ?Consular - can we post that and give a deadline for feed back for the general clergy?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:38:10 PM
Yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:38:13 PM
I can do that
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:38:56 PM
Thank you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:05 PM
oh if we do get that, we are also going to be having to change the office names
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:14 PM
right?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:24 PM
why ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:28 PM
Pastor, Associate Pastor, a blah blah
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:35 PM
ohhh
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:37 PM
I thought that was the goal
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:46 PM
yes sprry
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:49 PM
sorry
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:53 PM
to get away from the "I already know what you do"
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:58 PM
nods
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:40:03 PM
with that in mind, lets go over them
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:40:45 PM
So Carlos, your office is Pastor
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:41:02 PM
your office used to include : VP of Clerical Affairs
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:41:28 PM
What is it now? with ALL the new changes?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:41:43 PM
hmmm
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:41:53 PM
well, what do you like to do?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:42:08 PM
or what are you gifted in?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:42:19 PM
Is that how we will do the offices?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:42:28 PM
I know Jacob had asked for us to get to a more round table way
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:42:35 PM
where no one is above another
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:42:35 PM
fully definable offices by those who are in them?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:42:47 PM
im not sure
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:43:31 PM
Thats what you are asking
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:44:01 PM
it could be Sr. Consular
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:44:06 PM
the definitions of the offices should be minimum and understandable and have a way to grow
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:44:06 PM
your title
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:44:11 PM
rigth on
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:44:13 PM
so would mine
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:44:19 PM
and so would jacobs
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:44:20 PM
in the title is the job discriptin
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:44:48 PM
or vice versa cant remember which but yes ...right?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:45:48 PM
I just know Jacob wanted us to get on equal footing
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:47:19 PM
I have a question , why do the descriptions need to be changed if its just a name change?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:47:39 PM
hmm
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:48:01 PM
Just change the names not the job dicriptions
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:48:19 PM
so the office (detailed in the bylaws) still have some questionable naming conventions
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:48:50 PM
I'm not talking about the ranks.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:49:01 PM
Those I believe we decided would be Consular
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:49:13 PM
in synod
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:49:45 PM
in synod what?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:50:11 PM
the Lcp
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:50:16 PM
what?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:50:41 PM
ocp and Snr ocp are decided by Synod vote and appointment rigth?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:50:51 PM
Hey Losckley!!!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:50:57 PM
Carlos...what?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:06 PM
ok
Locksley#18308/28/2022 12:51:16 PM
Blast, I always have 100 things to do on days when these sorts of mertings arise.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:19 PM
it looks like we are talking about two different things
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:51:22 PM
Will that change?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:37 PM
let me just...repeat myself
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:39 PM
Ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:44 PM
from now on
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:52 PM
Our Clerical Ranks will be
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:56 PM
LCP
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:52:10 PM
Ordained Consular
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:52:18 PM
and Sr Consular
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:52:29 PM
a rank is different then an office
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:52:54 PM
not OCP but We are gunna call it Counselor
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:04 PM
yes
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:10 PM
im tracking
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:14 PM
now ...
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:19 PM
instead of using OCP and Sr. OCP
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:32 PM
we will now have Consular and Sr Consular
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:36 PM
those are titles
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:41 PM
not offices
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:42 PM
for ranks
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:45 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:48 PM
now
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:52 PM
ok im still tracking you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:04 PM
LET US TALK ABOUT THE OFFICE TITLES
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:09 PM
please
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:18 PM
synod office titles
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:43 PM
we have
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:47 PM
Pastor
Locksley#18308/28/2022 12:54:50 PM
Will we have notes on this written up in Gdocs or similar? Despite being an hour late, lol, I'd love to try to be part of the discussion. ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:57 PM
Associate Pastor
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:55:03 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:55:38 PM
Pastor for Pastoral Care
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:56:04 PM
and VP of Clerical Affairs
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:56:11 PM
4 synod offices
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:56:25 PM
and Pastor for Seminary
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:56:32 PM
SO
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:56:32 PM
gotcha 5
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:56:49 PM
"we" know we are "round table-y"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:57:15 PM
but from the outside we may look a bit like a ratchet triangle
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:57:29 PM
some of that is my fault, right?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:57:52 PM
because I came in a bit like a wrecking ball as VP (again)
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:58:51 PM
so I guess my main goal is to figure out how to show the rest of the temple, on paper (which is what the bylawss are ) how round table--y we are
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:01:04 PM
The temple public is allowed in the clergy meetings right?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:01:24 PM
no?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:01:46 PM
do you hear what I'm saying when I say "on paper"?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:02:02 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:02:13 PM
ok I mean organizationally
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:02:23 PM
just so we are clear
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:02:28 PM
It may be my own fault but I do not know what is wrong with them now.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:03:08 PM
maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:03:20 PM
I'll try bullet points
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:03:22 PM
do the by laws need to make more sence?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:03:31 PM
are they confusing ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:03:42 PM
boy that would be great
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:07:10 PM
Would these meetings be better served by being live audio/video in the future? I don't know if I'm the only one but, after having just read through the whole thread, I'm confused by a lot of the backround. And through text it's a lot easier for misunderstandings and miscommunication to happen.
Here's what I understand:
- Role names of clergy are being changed
- There's some discussion of what happens with moderators and moderation?
- Something further (what?) is happenng with the bylaws? (Possibly focused on the behavior unbecoming section).
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:08:23 PM
the first thing discussed was removing the section on behavior unbecoming from the bylaws
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:08:27 PM
that was done
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:08:51 PM
2nd thing discussed was changing the rank names to consular and senior consular
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:09:02 PM
as opposed to OCP and Senior OCP
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:09:43 PM
it'll be up or discussion
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:09:47 PM
I think this came through, but I lacked clarity of background information on why this was changed.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:10:30 PM
ah ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:10:54 PM
toward the beginning there was discussion that it was too vague and can trip people up
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:11:02 PM
or cause a level of fear
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:11:11 PM
This makes sense and seems simple enough.
Will there also be a change of the "Councillor" role to board member? I liked the clarity of that and the separation of admin from the philosophical leadership that such a switch implies.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:11:48 PM
Im not sure how likely there will be a change from Councillor to Board member
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:11:59 PM
No thats not a Clergy synod decision there
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:12:08 PM
Clergy by laws are fro clergy
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:12:24 PM
temple by laws for temple
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:12:58 PM
Mainly just confusion, haha. I rarely have much time to devote to TotJO meetings and, when I try, the lack of depth of clarity can make it hard to be an active voice. Not anyone's fault!! Just a simple matter of a broad and busy back-stage discussion that someone like me might not be privvy to.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:14:16 PM
i mean the beginning of the meeting
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:14:58 PM
what do the synod by laws need, clarity?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:15:05 PM
in defition of offices?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:15:22 PM
no we need new office titles
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:15:34 PM
not dicriptions?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:15:46 PM
not descriptions
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:15:52 PM
sweet
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:16:39 PM
Pasotr - Head blah blah blah
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:16:51 PM
associate Assocuat blah blah blah
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:17:03 PM
what are you "Head Blah Blah of, Carlos"
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:17:08 PM
Seminary - Dean of seminary
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:17:22 PM
Pastor Head Counslar
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:17:34 PM
associate counslar
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:17:43 PM
Dean
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:17:54 PM
Well, I'll check a notes document for this meeting when it's made available and _try_ to be present for the next one.
Hope everyone's doing well!
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:18:22 PM
Must fly now, Sunday's a busy day for me. ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:18:49 PM
Vp of the synod and Councilar of pastoral care or outreach
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:18:59 PM
how does that sound fro starts?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:19:08 PM
ok that sounds good
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:19:19 PM
can we please use Dean of seminary?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:19:27 PM
is that legid?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:19:32 PM
Thats what it is
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:19:48 PM
so let me just
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:21:14 PM
here is my beef with all this too Ros- for legal parts we still need the titles OCP fro clergy records as in each minister will keep their own logs with their own state which means OCP what do we do with that part?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:22:01 PM
OCP is the legal parts of clergy which are a nessesity as the regulating body
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:22:07 PM
sure
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:22:25 PM
we know that our consulars would be ordained clergy persons
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:22:31 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:22:38 PM
does it need to be present on the site?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:22:49 PM
legally i am not sure
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:22:58 PM
or can we just give them a certificate of ordination
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:23:09 PM
it wasn't when I first joined
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:23:23 PM
back when there were "deacons, bishops, etc)
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:23:34 PM
but I can see the concern
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:23:51 PM
i would say yes to be but thats a REN worthy question safe
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:24:14 PM
thats worth validating
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:24:27 PM
why is it a ren question
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:24:34 PM
he does system admin
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:24:44 PM
it would better be a john question
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:24:46 PM
and the legal stuff right?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:24:50 PM
no
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:24:55 PM
yes! you are correct
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:25:01 PM
thank you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:25:23 PM
im getting feedback that what we call people is irrelevant
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:25:31 PM
we'll call them consulars
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:25:35 PM
I have to show my certificate before visiting Jails and such
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:25:45 PM
but we will ordain them and give them a certificate as such
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:25:51 PM
but its the cert that gets you the legal things off line
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:25:55 PM
sure
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:26:00 PM
Rex!!!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:26:06 PM
thats what I'm saying
purplepimpwagon#38748/28/2022 1:26:12 PM
You can call them consulars so long as they also get the ocp suffix
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:26:22 PM
!!!
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:26:26 PM
Kobe!
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:26:32 PM
Rex fro the win lol jokin g
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:26:40 PM
well the certificate wont change
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:26:53 PM
it is called a certificate of ordination
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:27:09 PM
and we can put the OCP in the name
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:27:25 PM
eg : Rosalyn Johnson, OCP
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:27:36 PM
PERFECT
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:27:40 PM
cool
purplepimpwagon#38748/28/2022 1:27:48 PM
Or Rev. Rosalyn "Ratchet Grocery Bag" Johnson
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:28:13 PM
ah I forgot the illustiuous new title
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:28:37 PM
Rev. RRGBJ! ill pass on that one
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:30:02 PM
here is the thing though ...willl it have to change in the tempe by laws?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:30:14 PM
the titles ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:31:17 PM
are there some we can not chnage?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:31:24 PM
just wondering
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:32:19 PM
and I am running out of time as well Ros I do apologize
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:34:49 PM
Im not sure what you are getting at
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:35:21 PM
we CAN change the title of Pastor and Accosiate rigth?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:35:27 PM
and such
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:36:48 PM
It will have to go to Council but we can change the names, correct?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:37:07 PM
JK!
J. K. Barger#86438/28/2022 1:37:23 PM
Sorry I’m late y’all, family day ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:37:38 PM
Many blessings your way JK!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:37:42 PM
I am assuming we can change the names
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:37:53 PM
but yes, it will need to be discussed
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:37:57 PM
ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:38:13 PM
<@273871526858850305> how much have you read?
J. K. Barger#86438/28/2022 1:38:25 PM
Thank you kindly? Forgive me, I’ll have to catch up here in a few.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:38:36 PM
ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:38:44 PM
just a quick summary then
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:38:45 PM
Do we have more on the adgenda today Ros?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:38:58 PM
1. we removed the behavior unbecoming from the bylaws
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:39:14 PM
2. We discussed changing clerical ranks to Consular
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:39:17 PM
and
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:39:33 PM
3. We discussed changing office names to "Head of ----
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:39:51 PM
think I got all of that
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:40:19 PM
that said, thank you all for coming today
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:40:21 PM
I did ask if we could use" Dean for the seminary " Or something similar too
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:40:27 PM
oh yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:40:52 PM
Dean of Seminary for "Ass, Pastor of Seminary"
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:41:03 PM
yea!!!!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:41:09 PM
with that I just want to say thank you all for coming
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:41:33 PM
I got till 4 today my time so till the end of the hour
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:41:34 PM
it was a long meeting, but I think it was a good meeting and I can't wait to do this again
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:41:43 PM
Whoot whoot
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:42:03 PM
I will say, even if we don't have anything on the agenda, lets meet again next month
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:42:18 PM
it doesn't have to be a business meeting
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:42:40 PM
it can just be a clergy hangout meeting
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:42:56 PM
with TEA im told or its a no go
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:05 PM
right
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:22 PM
That said, I want to go ahead and call this meeting to a close
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:43:26 PM
lol im down one a month minimum
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:31 PM
I've got another at the top of the hour
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:34 PM
thank you all
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:47 PM
Summary and transcript will be posted soon
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:44:11 PM
thank you Rosalyn
are
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:44:24 PM
May the Force be with Y'all
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:44:30 PM
and also with you
Also here are the bylaws: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OMm1m0O91kdvovPI3npsxswhRxC1K7zQBkMw-3oAtnI/edit
here is the transcript for the august meeting
Warning: Spoiler!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 8:55:59 AM
<@&493389717748973569> don't forget. There is a meeting 3 hours from now
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 9:05:59 AM
Will there be tea ? ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 9:06:16 AM
Yes
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 9:06:29 AM
yay ! ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:40:16 AM
Sweet Tea
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:40:42 AM
Greetings all
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:43:56 AM
@here
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:49:24 AM
will the meeting be here?
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:50:39 AM
only if there's tea ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:51:25 AM
Does virtual tea count?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:51:36 AM
Hello Alex
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:51:50 AM
May your day be blessed
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:52:04 AM
thanks Carlos... it is
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:52:07 AM
cheers
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:52:42 AM
Right back at ya!
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:53:46 AM
Do you take your tea any special way?
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:54:40 AM
I like a bit of sugar and a drop of milk
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:54:50 AM
Noted
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:55:13 AM
we are looking at goats for milk for the farm this week
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:56:00 AM
Fresh milk and cheese is a attainable thing round here lol
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:57:14 AM
goat cheese is actually healthier for us that cows' milk cheese
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:57:31 AM
and sheep
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 11:57:40 AM
That is what "they" say
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:59:23 AM
? well, ... yes 'they' do
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 11:59:37 AM
who are 'they', Carlos ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:00:29 PM
Well the "they" I was referring are the proverbial make believe idea of the common thought which it is not.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:00:34 PM
Hello hello, who is all here?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:00:43 PM
Present
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:00:56 PM
?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:01:38 PM
<@&493389717748973569> the meeting will start shortly
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:01:47 PM
like in 5 minutes
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:02:56 PM
To Alex -the they in this case is the Mormon mom site my wife finds recipes from
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:03:25 PM
They - recommend goats over cows
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:03:39 PM
For small homesteading that is
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:03:52 PM
'they' can be about as pléonastic as 'you' or 'it'
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:04:16 PM
but in this case, the 'they' are several nutritionists I know
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:04:54 PM
Nods understandable, and it is good to know its not just hear say too
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:05:33 PM
Hello
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:05:49 PM
So I want I want to be respectful of the time
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:05:54 PM
Hello Rosalyn
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:06:03 PM
people who pop in can contribute
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:06:17 PM
and we are going to have other meetings like this as well
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:06:47 PM
That said I wanted to help set the intention for this meeting with the Code in its Yet Form
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:07:11 PM
so if everyone present could repeat (type) after me
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:07:22 PM
Emotion, Yet Peace
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:07:34 PM
Emotion, yet peace
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:07:56 PM
Emotion, yet peace
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:08:05 PM
Ignorance, Yet Knowledge
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:08:07 PM
Ignorance, yet knowledge
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:08:13 PM
Ignorance, yet knowledge
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:08:47 PM
Passion, Yet Serenity
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:08:49 PM
Passion, yet Serénité
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:08:49 PM
Passion, yet Serenity
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:09:11 PM
Chaos, Yet Harmony
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:09:14 PM
Chaos, yet Harmony
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:09:23 PM
Chaos, yet Harmonie
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:09:40 PM
Death, Yet the Force
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:09:43 PM
Death, yet the Force
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:09:51 PM
Death, yet the Force
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:10:02 PM
Thank you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:10:24 PM
Now, the only item on the agenda is the Bylaws
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:10:34 PM
2 points of order concerning them
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:11:00 PM
1. Behavior unbecoming is too broad and can lead to a level of fear to speak
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:11:09 PM
lets discuss this please
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:11:23 PM
Should it be rewritten, or stricken
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:11:30 PM
strike it
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:11:30 PM
May I ask why is it too broad?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:12:09 PM
Zantham Storm, a member of the clergy from quite a while ago had concerns
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:12:17 PM
I'll grab what he wrote
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:12:17 PM
I read that
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:13:08 PM
Like I told Ros, if someone does something so heinous as to get defrocked from clergy, we'll probably just put them out of the TotJO
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:13:17 PM
The purposes of the rule or the existence of behavior unbecoming is to be able to catch some one doing wrong or hold them accountable right?
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:13:30 PM
it makes it a little senseless to have that rule
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:13:30 PM
well
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:13:35 PM
it adds a redundancy
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:13:36 PM
rigth Alex isnt that what the rules are for?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:13:43 PM
I see that Alex
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:14:01 PM
there is such rarity of clergy behaving poorly that it might not be needed
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:14:28 PM
99.9% of the time, clergy do well
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:14:44 PM
anyhow here is the quote from Zantham
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:14:47 PM
"The highlighted sections appear to be attempting to put limits on what people say even outside of the Temple and without intent while not representing the Temple. While I do not agree with this, it would be worth giving examples or being specific with these things."
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:15:01 PM
well here is the thing as well Ros
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:15:32 PM
Zero just brought something up
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:15:40 PM
This particular Temple is the Granting body which NEEDS rules and accountability
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:15:47 PM
and that is that all members are held to the rules of moderation
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:15:54 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:15:57 PM
which includes behavior unbecoming
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:16:13 PM
so having it here as well is unnecessary, wouldn't you agree?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:16:29 PM
yup
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:16:34 PM
ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:16:54 PM
so as Alex suggested, are we striking just this section?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:17:05 PM
nods I concur and understand the need
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:17:12 PM
for ease, let me pull the section in question
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:17:18 PM
I don't want the moderators necessarily policing the clergy either
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:17:24 PM
"Behavior Unbecoming which is defined as any behavior that is seen to be outside of the standards set for a Jedi including but not limited to :inappropriate public engagement while representing the Order, inappropriate engagement with members with or without the intent to cause harm, and breaking the rules of moderation."
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:17:36 PM
They "police" the whole temple
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:17:51 PM
necessarily, clergy are under the same "rules"
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:17:52 PM
even *without* the intent to cause harm ?
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:17:55 PM
really ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:18:13 PM
hey, to be fair, I sent this to you like 5 times
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:21 PM
Ros, just strike the section
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:18:23 PM
Moderators are amd should be the rule keepers not enforcers I think buts thats fro another day
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:24 PM
yes, I know
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:18:30 PM
I'm going to
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:31 PM
we even read it together
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:18:40 PM
Strike it
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:48 PM
Cheers, guys
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:18:58 PM
and yes, Ros, I do forget things ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:19:06 PM
its stricken
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:19:29 PM
lol
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:19:54 PM
ok next thing
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:20:17 PM
you made me lol the kids are napping i think it woke them lol 2 seconds pls
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:20:36 PM
Thank you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:21:16 PM
Here's the next thing:
"Similarly to how we got away from Deacon, Priests and Bishop" in 2017, we're floating the idea of changing our cleric leadership roles to 'Consular' for example Lead Consular, Associate Consular, Consular of Spiritual Care, Consular of Seminary". Obviously, Consular and Councillor are too similar to work, so we were wondering about changing "Council" to "Board of Directors" and "Councillors" to "Board Members". What do you think?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:21:44 PM
I use Pastor
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:22:17 PM
yes, however, it does have a "christian" ring
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:22:37 PM
greek
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:22:52 PM
pastor/parson/person = personae
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:22:56 PM
(mask)
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:23:12 PM
Do I look Cristian to you lol joking but is there a better term?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:23:38 PM
well that may be, but the majority of people are going to think "Pastor" like "old country preacher"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:23:52 PM
and I thought we were trying to get away from that
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:23:58 PM
I really am out of my sort when choosing names for titles, its really not my thing
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:24:11 PM
Call it what you like I have no beef with the title
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:24:35 PM
A few years ago, we pondered the idea of "Magister"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:24:56 PM
I remember that discussion
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:25:22 PM
I got nothing for yall on the subject sorry
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:25:52 PM
Thing is, I like Consular as well...
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:26:01 PM
I don't find it too close to Councillor
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:26:07 PM
lets use that one then
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:26:09 PM
so it looks like it would be
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:26:09 PM
they are utterly different words
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:26:42 PM
im not sure how its going to pan out
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:26:53 PM
because it may be that we can get rid of the OCP
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:27:04 PM
and just use Consular instead
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:27:09 PM
like
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:27:15 PM
why get rid of OCP Just two tier?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:27:23 PM
no listen please
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:28:12 PM
hmmm
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:28:31 PM
actually I do know we need that three teir
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:29:32 PM
so, once one is licensed, their just a LM
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:29:37 PM
like we have already
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:29:56 PM
but then instead of OCP it would be "Consular"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:30:15 PM
and Sr. OCP would be "Senior Consular"
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:30:36 PM
and then????? I m joking that does sound right
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:31:00 PM
and then we could have "super sayan consular"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:31:09 PM
i kid
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:31:11 PM
shaking my head
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:31:25 PM
funny
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:32:20 PM
why not "High Consular" to differentiate it a bit from "Senior Knight"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:32:20 PM
im trying to think is there anything else
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:32:40 PM
because I don't smoke ganja
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:32:48 PM
i mean idk
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:33:00 PM
I think thats a bit high falutin
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:33:01 PM
High counslar sounds ....army like like too high ....
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:33:18 PM
Like ego high
Alexandre Orion#68538/28/2022 12:33:23 PM
?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:36:11 PM
Are we in agreement over the names ?Consular - can we post that and give a deadline for feed back for the general clergy?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:38:10 PM
Yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:38:13 PM
I can do that
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:38:56 PM
Thank you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:05 PM
oh if we do get that, we are also going to be having to change the office names
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:14 PM
right?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:24 PM
why ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:28 PM
Pastor, Associate Pastor, a blah blah
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:35 PM
ohhh
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:37 PM
I thought that was the goal
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:46 PM
yes sprry
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:49 PM
sorry
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:39:53 PM
to get away from the "I already know what you do"
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:39:58 PM
nods
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:40:03 PM
with that in mind, lets go over them
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:40:45 PM
So Carlos, your office is Pastor
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:41:02 PM
your office used to include : VP of Clerical Affairs
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:41:28 PM
What is it now? with ALL the new changes?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:41:43 PM
hmmm
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:41:53 PM
well, what do you like to do?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:42:08 PM
or what are you gifted in?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:42:19 PM
Is that how we will do the offices?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:42:28 PM
I know Jacob had asked for us to get to a more round table way
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:42:35 PM
where no one is above another
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:42:35 PM
fully definable offices by those who are in them?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:42:47 PM
im not sure
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:43:31 PM
Thats what you are asking
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:44:01 PM
it could be Sr. Consular
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:44:06 PM
the definitions of the offices should be minimum and understandable and have a way to grow
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:44:06 PM
your title
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:44:11 PM
rigth on
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:44:13 PM
so would mine
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:44:19 PM
and so would jacobs
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:44:20 PM
in the title is the job discriptin
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:44:48 PM
or vice versa cant remember which but yes ...right?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:45:48 PM
I just know Jacob wanted us to get on equal footing
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:47:19 PM
I have a question , why do the descriptions need to be changed if its just a name change?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:47:39 PM
hmm
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:48:01 PM
Just change the names not the job dicriptions
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:48:19 PM
so the office (detailed in the bylaws) still have some questionable naming conventions
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:48:50 PM
I'm not talking about the ranks.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:49:01 PM
Those I believe we decided would be Consular
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:49:13 PM
in synod
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:49:45 PM
in synod what?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:50:11 PM
the Lcp
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:50:16 PM
what?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:50:41 PM
ocp and Snr ocp are decided by Synod vote and appointment rigth?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:50:51 PM
Hey Losckley!!!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:50:57 PM
Carlos...what?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:06 PM
ok
Locksley#18308/28/2022 12:51:16 PM
Blast, I always have 100 things to do on days when these sorts of mertings arise.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:19 PM
it looks like we are talking about two different things
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:51:22 PM
Will that change?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:37 PM
let me just...repeat myself
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:39 PM
Ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:44 PM
from now on
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:52 PM
Our Clerical Ranks will be
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:51:56 PM
LCP
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:52:10 PM
Ordained Consular
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:52:18 PM
and Sr Consular
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:52:29 PM
a rank is different then an office
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:52:54 PM
not OCP but We are gunna call it Counselor
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:04 PM
yes
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:10 PM
im tracking
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:14 PM
now ...
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:19 PM
instead of using OCP and Sr. OCP
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:32 PM
we will now have Consular and Sr Consular
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:36 PM
those are titles
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:41 PM
not offices
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:42 PM
for ranks
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:45 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:53:48 PM
now
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:53:52 PM
ok im still tracking you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:04 PM
LET US TALK ABOUT THE OFFICE TITLES
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:09 PM
please
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:18 PM
synod office titles
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:43 PM
we have
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:47 PM
Pastor
Locksley#18308/28/2022 12:54:50 PM
Will we have notes on this written up in Gdocs or similar? Despite being an hour late, lol, I'd love to try to be part of the discussion. ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:54:57 PM
Associate Pastor
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:55:03 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:55:38 PM
Pastor for Pastoral Care
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:56:04 PM
and VP of Clerical Affairs
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:56:11 PM
4 synod offices
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:56:25 PM
and Pastor for Seminary
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:56:32 PM
SO
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 12:56:32 PM
gotcha 5
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:56:49 PM
"we" know we are "round table-y"
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:57:15 PM
but from the outside we may look a bit like a ratchet triangle
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:57:29 PM
some of that is my fault, right?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:57:52 PM
because I came in a bit like a wrecking ball as VP (again)
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 12:58:51 PM
so I guess my main goal is to figure out how to show the rest of the temple, on paper (which is what the bylawss are ) how round table--y we are
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:01:04 PM
The temple public is allowed in the clergy meetings right?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:01:24 PM
no?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:01:46 PM
do you hear what I'm saying when I say "on paper"?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:02:02 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:02:13 PM
ok I mean organizationally
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:02:23 PM
just so we are clear
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:02:28 PM
It may be my own fault but I do not know what is wrong with them now.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:03:08 PM
maybe I am not explaining myself well enough
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:03:20 PM
I'll try bullet points
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:03:22 PM
do the by laws need to make more sence?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:03:31 PM
are they confusing ?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:03:42 PM
boy that would be great
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:07:10 PM
Would these meetings be better served by being live audio/video in the future? I don't know if I'm the only one but, after having just read through the whole thread, I'm confused by a lot of the backround. And through text it's a lot easier for misunderstandings and miscommunication to happen.
Here's what I understand:
- Role names of clergy are being changed
- There's some discussion of what happens with moderators and moderation?
- Something further (what?) is happenng with the bylaws? (Possibly focused on the behavior unbecoming section).
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:08:23 PM
the first thing discussed was removing the section on behavior unbecoming from the bylaws
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:08:27 PM
that was done
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:08:51 PM
2nd thing discussed was changing the rank names to consular and senior consular
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:09:02 PM
as opposed to OCP and Senior OCP
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:09:43 PM
it'll be up or discussion
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:09:47 PM
I think this came through, but I lacked clarity of background information on why this was changed.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:10:30 PM
ah ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:10:54 PM
toward the beginning there was discussion that it was too vague and can trip people up
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:11:02 PM
or cause a level of fear
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:11:11 PM
This makes sense and seems simple enough.
Will there also be a change of the "Councillor" role to board member? I liked the clarity of that and the separation of admin from the philosophical leadership that such a switch implies.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:11:48 PM
Im not sure how likely there will be a change from Councillor to Board member
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:11:59 PM
No thats not a Clergy synod decision there
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:12:08 PM
Clergy by laws are fro clergy
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:12:24 PM
temple by laws for temple
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:12:58 PM
Mainly just confusion, haha. I rarely have much time to devote to TotJO meetings and, when I try, the lack of depth of clarity can make it hard to be an active voice. Not anyone's fault!! Just a simple matter of a broad and busy back-stage discussion that someone like me might not be privvy to.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:14:16 PM
i mean the beginning of the meeting
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:14:58 PM
what do the synod by laws need, clarity?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:15:05 PM
in defition of offices?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:15:22 PM
no we need new office titles
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:15:34 PM
not dicriptions?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:15:46 PM
not descriptions
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:15:52 PM
sweet
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:16:39 PM
Pasotr - Head blah blah blah
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:16:51 PM
associate Assocuat blah blah blah
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:17:03 PM
what are you "Head Blah Blah of, Carlos"
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:17:08 PM
Seminary - Dean of seminary
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:17:22 PM
Pastor Head Counslar
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:17:34 PM
associate counslar
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:17:43 PM
Dean
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:17:54 PM
Well, I'll check a notes document for this meeting when it's made available and _try_ to be present for the next one.
Hope everyone's doing well!
Locksley#18308/28/2022 1:18:22 PM
Must fly now, Sunday's a busy day for me. ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:18:49 PM
Vp of the synod and Councilar of pastoral care or outreach
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:18:59 PM
how does that sound fro starts?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:19:08 PM
ok that sounds good
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:19:19 PM
can we please use Dean of seminary?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:19:27 PM
is that legid?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:19:32 PM
Thats what it is
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:19:48 PM
so let me just
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:21:14 PM
here is my beef with all this too Ros- for legal parts we still need the titles OCP fro clergy records as in each minister will keep their own logs with their own state which means OCP what do we do with that part?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:22:01 PM
OCP is the legal parts of clergy which are a nessesity as the regulating body
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:22:07 PM
sure
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:22:25 PM
we know that our consulars would be ordained clergy persons
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:22:31 PM
yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:22:38 PM
does it need to be present on the site?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:22:49 PM
legally i am not sure
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:22:58 PM
or can we just give them a certificate of ordination
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:23:09 PM
it wasn't when I first joined
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:23:23 PM
back when there were "deacons, bishops, etc)
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:23:34 PM
but I can see the concern
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:23:51 PM
i would say yes to be but thats a REN worthy question safe
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:24:14 PM
thats worth validating
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:24:27 PM
why is it a ren question
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:24:34 PM
he does system admin
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:24:44 PM
it would better be a john question
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:24:46 PM
and the legal stuff right?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:24:50 PM
no
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:24:55 PM
yes! you are correct
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:25:01 PM
thank you
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:25:23 PM
im getting feedback that what we call people is irrelevant
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:25:31 PM
we'll call them consulars
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:25:35 PM
I have to show my certificate before visiting Jails and such
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:25:45 PM
but we will ordain them and give them a certificate as such
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:25:51 PM
but its the cert that gets you the legal things off line
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:25:55 PM
sure
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:26:00 PM
Rex!!!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:26:06 PM
thats what I'm saying
purplepimpwagon#38748/28/2022 1:26:12 PM
You can call them consulars so long as they also get the ocp suffix
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:26:22 PM
!!!
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:26:26 PM
Kobe!
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:26:32 PM
Rex fro the win lol jokin g
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:26:40 PM
well the certificate wont change
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:26:53 PM
it is called a certificate of ordination
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:27:09 PM
and we can put the OCP in the name
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:27:25 PM
eg : Rosalyn Johnson, OCP
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:27:36 PM
PERFECT
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:27:40 PM
cool
purplepimpwagon#38748/28/2022 1:27:48 PM
Or Rev. Rosalyn "Ratchet Grocery Bag" Johnson
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:28:13 PM
ah I forgot the illustiuous new title
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:28:37 PM
Rev. RRGBJ! ill pass on that one
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:30:02 PM
here is the thing though ...willl it have to change in the tempe by laws?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:30:14 PM
the titles ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:31:17 PM
are there some we can not chnage?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:31:24 PM
just wondering
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:32:19 PM
and I am running out of time as well Ros I do apologize
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:34:49 PM
Im not sure what you are getting at
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:35:21 PM
we CAN change the title of Pastor and Accosiate rigth?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:35:27 PM
and such
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:36:48 PM
It will have to go to Council but we can change the names, correct?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:37:07 PM
JK!
J. K. Barger#86438/28/2022 1:37:23 PM
Sorry I’m late y’all, family day ?
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:37:38 PM
Many blessings your way JK!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:37:42 PM
I am assuming we can change the names
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:37:53 PM
but yes, it will need to be discussed
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:37:57 PM
ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:38:13 PM
<@273871526858850305> how much have you read?
J. K. Barger#86438/28/2022 1:38:25 PM
Thank you kindly? Forgive me, I’ll have to catch up here in a few.
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:38:36 PM
ok
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:38:44 PM
just a quick summary then
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:38:45 PM
Do we have more on the adgenda today Ros?
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:38:58 PM
1. we removed the behavior unbecoming from the bylaws
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:39:14 PM
2. We discussed changing clerical ranks to Consular
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:39:17 PM
and
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:39:33 PM
3. We discussed changing office names to "Head of ----
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:39:51 PM
think I got all of that
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:40:19 PM
that said, thank you all for coming today
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:40:21 PM
I did ask if we could use" Dean for the seminary " Or something similar too
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:40:27 PM
oh yes
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:40:52 PM
Dean of Seminary for "Ass, Pastor of Seminary"
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:41:03 PM
yea!!!!
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:41:09 PM
with that I just want to say thank you all for coming
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:41:33 PM
I got till 4 today my time so till the end of the hour
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:41:34 PM
it was a long meeting, but I think it was a good meeting and I can't wait to do this again
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:41:43 PM
Whoot whoot
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:42:03 PM
I will say, even if we don't have anything on the agenda, lets meet again next month
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:42:18 PM
it doesn't have to be a business meeting
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:42:40 PM
it can just be a clergy hangout meeting
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:42:56 PM
with TEA im told or its a no go
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:05 PM
right
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:22 PM
That said, I want to go ahead and call this meeting to a close
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:43:26 PM
lol im down one a month minimum
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:31 PM
I've got another at the top of the hour
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:34 PM
thank you all
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:43:47 PM
Summary and transcript will be posted soon
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:44:11 PM
thank you Rosalyn
are
Carlos the Third#61488/28/2022 1:44:24 PM
May the Force be with Y'all
Rosalyn j#15968/28/2022 1:44:30 PM
and also with you
Also here are the bylaws: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OMm1m0O91kdvovPI3npsxswhRxC1K7zQBkMw-3oAtnI/edit
Last edit: 1 year 1 month ago by Rosalyn J.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3, Silenus
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