Jedi and Religion

Here is my thought I must ask for others to speak on these things:

The fundamental tenets of any religion is to follow its ways to the exclusion of any other. This does not mean others are wrong, it is just the paths we take. I do not like pickles on a sandwich, but that does not mean those that do, are wrong in my eyes. Just a preference.

If we are to set apart a the jedi religion for this world, and not fall into the new age nonsense of others who feel all ways are fine to blend and see what you come up with, we get a diluted mess. Granted the Jedi in Lucas' mind was a blend of other things, that is fine and well. For in his blend, he came up with something of its own.

Even the word Jedi he did not come up with on his own. The term \"Jedi\" was derived from Jidaigeki (Japanese period dramas) as George Lucas was heavily influenced by Akira Kurosawa. Isaac Asimov's Foundation series features several varieties of empaths and telepaths who can detect and influence human emotion.

However, to take this new form, Jedi, and then say one can be of Jedi X or Jedi Y flavor seems to allow just that sort of disharmony to come into play.

We should have a solid foundation of what it means to be a Jedi in pratical and the real world and show this face to the world and be who we say we are. Standing for something and not waivering. Otherwise we face dissolution and become just another tepid movement at the end of the day.

This is especially close in my estimation with Christians. And to those who claim this path, I have no ill will for you, but by the tenets of your own faith you must believe \"Jesus is the only way, the truth and the light\" no mention of a force or other such guiding principle. How is a Buddhist Jedi to make of that when they themself do not believe in a 'God or Goddess' and see the practice of dharma the way of enlightenment.

I do not wish to start a debate, cause problems or what have you, but this path is very close to me and I feel these things need to be addressed as I find this a very noble and well ideal, that is to say totjo.

Whether by design or mere coincidence I can answer this for you rather simply. I am a Lutheran, I am a Christian Jedi. but for the many of us who claim this moniker Jediism is nothing more than another denomination of such. I use the fundemental principles of Jediism as a means of attaining a deeper connection with my savior. No where in the scripture does the lord say that the Holy Spirit (which for me and many others is the Force) may not have a different name. Nor does it say that one may not follow a series of principles in which to live ones life in his honor.

What I think you are not seeing is that Jediism (to me and others) can be and in most cases is Jediism. there is not a teaching of our doctrine that is not also echoed in scripture. sure the Bible is far longer and contains much more information, but the doctrine of this temple has truly limitless application.

I am a Jedi. I am a Christian. These are very much synonimous. They are equal. Just as it is to say I am a Jedi and I am a buddhist or any other religion. If this is not clear i implore you to ask questions. But it is the great and awesome diversity of this congregation that facilitates our learning. Were we all to be strictly \"Pure\" Jedi we would then be stagnant. There would be no views in which to grow.

Buddha himself said \" WHATEVER, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings; believe and cling to that doctrine, and take it as your guide. Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. \"

Yes, as a Christian I believe that the only way to heaven is through Jesus Christ. But here, I do not impress that upon anyone unless they ask about it. I am here, as we all are, to learn. To grow in our faiths, whatever they may be.

As you have said there seem to be as many answers as convictions. There was a time when I tried to combine faith systems, but one day the buddhist monks told me that God does not exist and Christ was only a good man. To attain enlightenment Sangha, Dharma and Buddha were necessary. The Tibetan Buddhists don`t even recognise Zen Buddhism.... as being ways to illumination. As soon as one idea in Dharma is changed thats it. No-one, they said, can exist outside of Samsara, everything is inter-dependent. The christian churches I was involved with occasionaly quote Buddha, but he has absolutly nothing to do with salvation. Certainly the Roman Catholic Church has a similar view: Christ, the Church and the Holy Scriptures. I think there is a difference if you are dealing with faith systems on a personal level and if you are working with institutions. I certainly got fed up with explaining, looking for ways out.... . For me there is truth in everything which exists, all roads lead to Rome, every disaster can be a blessing. I think a lot depends on the individual, what does he/she really want. Is it not wonderfull to have so many different ways? Everyone in their individuality can discover their own way to fulfillment.

ok there is a solid foundation, you have to really look into it. just because you can't see it does not mean its not there. the real question is how long have you been a jedi, have you ever had a master? the reason for this, is because this is an area that you're master should have covered. people do take the force how they do. its something people connect with. what is the force for you? to some its the holy ghost, to others its an energy with no other name but the force. when people learn of something they connect it with a similar knowledge. hence why it is easier for some to connect the force with Christianity's the Holy Ghost. this is my thought but trust me the answers you are seeking are in you and also this doctrine. read it and really break it down and you will have more answers. also remember there is no wrong with other religions or combining them with ours, for we as jedi must accept all. MTFBWY

I'd like to know how you would do it?

The problems you predict have not happened here.

Br. John

I can relate to that. The openness which the order demonstrates has spoken to me very personally.

The path which I have chosen is that of the Jedi, and the \"baggage\" which I have collected in my life I wish to use on that journey. I see myself as a Jedi with a Christian background, and not a Roman Catholic with a Jedi background.

I have to agree with Ceris on this one, no ill will on anyone, I just see that Jediism needs to eventually be a stand alone faith. This is the reason I think we are all here in the first place, to be part of the birth of a fresh outlook. A new hope? Our discussions are very interesting and every one has valid points. Jediism is evolving, but to what end? Does our faith of Jediism offer something unique? I believe that we are on the right track...just the fact that we can all come together from different backgrounds and get along and even have a little fun along the way speaks volumes. Finding the middle ground may be the hardest trial before us.

Just my thoughts,
Lenny

But then what would be the focus of our faith? Ourselves and our mastery of the Force?

Serric: our acceptance of the force as a living entity, and our working with it.. power with, not power over or from. growing in the ways of the jedi as we are coming for found this new way.

there was a quote by my one of my sensei's which went: \"climb your own mountain, do not seek after other ones. and imitation is never flattery to the true student. he will get to the heart of the path itself and follow it explicitly and ever perfect his art until he passes from this world.\"

if we continue to chase our tails with a melting pot of ideas and religions, we become jacks and jills of all trades yet never truly a master of any

thank you Lenny for seeing what I am grasping at.

I was brought up in Christianity, learned Paganism/Druidism, and studied various other world religions. But for most of the last decade I have been practicing Jediism, mostly without the coined name. Jediism is my only religion. The others are knowledge that I have in my toolbox for reference now. Jediism may end up as a stand alone religion one day. As of right now, it is very hard for that to happen. We are still laying the foundations for which to build upon. That being said, would it be considered a lack of tolerence on those of us that are strictly practioners of Jediism when a brother or sister choses to believe something outside of the Jedi belief system? Our teachings allow for our members to follow both standards. If you want to practice another faith in hand with Jediism, so be it. If Jediism is your only faith, so be it. Following other faiths at the same time as the ways of the Force doesn't make a person any less of a Jedi than one following only the ways of the Force. Those that choose to follow another religion and Jediism just have to find and manage a balance with the two. It is a personal decision for that person and we are not to judge them for that choice.

Just speaking from my own experience. When one defines themself as X or Y, one has a good notion of what either of those mean. It 'should' be the same with any religion.

If Jedi is to be a philosophy, then it can be melded with other parts of other philosophies and go with that, this is all well and good.

However, speaking as a theologist, once you give it the term 'religion' it becomes a closed system or it can not be called a religion at all, but an 'eclecticism' or a lose collection of customs and practices more akin to 'folk belief' wherein both religious notions and philosophies can be co-mingled.

I also must stress how I am not seeking to cause problems, but maintain this open forum between Adults for the furtherance of my own understanding of the undertaking herein.

If it were to be a \"closed system\" as such, then were would our diversity be derived from?

A Jedi may follow a syncretistic religion -- a faith involving elements from two or more religions. One can be strictly a Jedi, a Wiccan Jedi, a Christian Jedi, a Buddhist Jedi, or an Agnostic Jedi for example, but Jediism is a religion and a way of life in and of itself

very good point bishop, I personally am a strict Jedi but that dos't change the fact of what we are, a way of life and a religion.

we cannot put it in simple terms what we all individually believe, all we can truly say is that we are Jedi.

ryutheblade wrote:

very good point bishop, I personally am a strict Jedi but that dos't change the fact of what we are, a way of life and a religion.

we cannot put it in simple terms what we all individually believe, all we can truly say is that we are Jedi.

Yes!

Ceris, please do not take anything I said to be in a hurtful manner at all. It was just my expressing my point of view. I did not take it as you trying to cause problems. You bring up very good points for discussion.

when it comes to religion you get what you put in. honestly all our religions on this earth came from somewhere. be careful voicing things that you dont know the true answer to. for there will always be a way to prove things wrong. but we as people and of our faiths must look outside the box.

Although I somewhat agree with Ceris on this one, I have to say if you require a set definition of what you believe and hold your faith in, are you really on your own path, or are they really your beliefs? Whether your a Christian, a Buddhist or what ever, why must your path be set in stone before you take your first step? Each of us has our own path to walk, and our own part to play in the big picture, however we define what that is by our actions and choices. Our paths are not decided because \"well I believe in God, so if I don't go to church every Sunday, and try to win souls at every opportunity, give 10 percent of my gross earnings to the church, I'm going to Hell\" (no offense to Christians, just easiest to use as an example) it just doesn't make sense. If this were the case we would all be alike, we'd all follow the same path. Sometimes the direction your heading gets blocked by a tree that fell, so you move in a different direction, but its the same path, its YOUR path, no-one elses.

DK

Just to clear up a few things, my operative words were 'eventually' and 'fresh', just a goal we should be reaching for, trying to not be a carbon copy of yet another carbon copy. I agree that finding original ideals is a hard task, but it shouldn't be impossible. Maybe we could look at the common ideals of each faith and together as group sort through them to find the common root, tear away the dogma and pomp to reveal what is at the heart, acting objectively, like investigators at a crime scene. Just about all religions say the same message and have the same goals, it's the same destination only with different travel agents. They have to have a common idea. That's not to say that we have to do this immediately, our current course works fine, but we should not be satisfied to just accept...anything.

Believe me, my brothers and sisters, I may come off at times as the most anti-religious fanitic going, but if during our course we discover anything that would restore my faith in God I would welcome it with open arms. Part of my reason for being here and raising questions is a quest to discover the truth. not just for me but for us all. I do not wish to belittle anyone. just being here in the first place tells me that we are all on this quest, if not we would just be content to follow the mainstream faiths, go to church on Sunday and rush home to catch the Football game and call ourselves saved.

MTFBWUA
Lenny