Thoughts/reflections about Revanism

What is your thoughts about revanism (the ideology of Darth Revan)?

Beneath is both of the "Revanite Codes" that exists:


I think its a though topic. On one point, I see that the Codes seems very "moderate" and more open and human, but at the same time it also opens up for the corruption by the dark side. I guess his title is "Darth", after all... But seriously; is it a Grey Jedi"-thing, or is it a Dark Side-ideology? Because these two Codes that you see above seems much more like Grey Jedi to me than Dark Side. You follow what I mean?

Another issue is that Revan himself changes his ideological positions once in a while (I dont know the details about this or just what his ideological positions is at the different times of life), so that just confuses things even more...

What are peoples thoughts about Revanism?

I agree that it looks more like Grey Jedi philosophy than Dark Side. Because we can see here a kind of harmony between light and darkness, a logical connection between them, while a true Dark Side follower usually concentrate on the darkness only.

And what do you think is the positive/negative influences Revanism possilby could have in comparison to Jediism? What are your thoughts about it as a Code to live by?

I personally think there is no practical difference between Jediism and Revanism. It seems to me that Revanism is a variation on the Grey Jedi code, and many modern Jediists, I for one being one already live by this principle. However for the ones following the original Jedi code I think that the only difference is that they only focus on the light and are more wary of the negative emotions that can corrupt ones mind. I don't think there's a negative or positive difference, they're both different ways of understanding the same path as is also stated in our doctrine.

Also liking the code, so I might steal it if you don't mind :laugh:

My brain works differently, so I had to rewrite the later one to get anything that I liked;

'There is no light in the dark.
There is only the Force.
Through passion, I give focus to it.
Through knowledge, I gain power from it.
Through serenity, I gather strength for it.
Through victory, I grant harmony face of it.
There is only the Force.'

A bit dark and 'burning delusion' but hey, why not. He is a darkee.

By all means do - sharing is caring!

Thank you very much for your reflections!

Very cool! So, theres aknowledgment for that its "many" ways to Rome (if not all?)?

Do you know if the Temple thinks there are limits to "which road" you undertake (thinking of all the different kinds of Jedi-resembling Codes, etc.) that could be beneficial or non-beneficial?

Where can I read more about whats stated in the principles? Do you refer to the principles stated on the front page?

Hehe, nice one! ^^

Me myself only edit the last part. Instead of the original: "Through victory, I gain harmony.", I switch it to become: "Through harmony, I gain victory.".

I think maybe that last part of it is one of the main things that categorise it as "Dark Side", since the Dark Side got more focus on the materialistic conditions. So, in order to try to make it a little more "Jedi-like", I edited it that way you see above so that the inner harmony is whats conditions the materialistic situation, instead of the opposite

Any Knights here on the forum who would like to take a stance on the matter?

Would be interesting to know what a Jedi Knight thinks of Revanism.

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Clergy/115769-the-block?start=370#347344

Thank you for response

Just for others to come with different thoughts, if someone have any, about Revanism and its Code(s)! Very interesting to hear others reflections!

So the way I see it is that we're all seeking balance. While the Light side seeks balance for the benefit of others, the dark side seeks balance for the benefit of self.

There are different ways of interpreting what might be in the middle. Does it mean complete neutrality? Or does it simply embody the ebb and flow from one side to the other. And in one person, what does that actually mean? Is it kind of like saying "on Tuesday I'll be a Jedi and on Wednesday I'll be a Sith"? Is it trying to be both simultaneously or is it alternating between frequencies? And if you're trying to do both how useful or efficient is it and if you're trying to alternate how do you know when to do what? Also, when it comes to light and dark, in my opinion, it does have a lot to do with the "means" and the "end".

Outcomes. Like the energy that flows out of one side of a battery or the other, the outcome is either positive or negative. Neutral just means there is no change. Often, a positive outcome for one is a negative outcome for another. Like money. Everyone can't be rich. That money has to come from somewhere. Is it better than no one is poor? Or is it better that some can be rich if they work hard enough or if they're lucky enough to be born into a wealthy family?

And maybe the answer to this question simply changes depending on who you ask and if that person is used to having money or whether they're used to being poor. Which side of the balance were you on before? This is the question of both the Sith and the Jedi. You could very much say that canon Jedi were elites, taken from their families at a young age, and taken care of. Maybe this was a downgrade if their family was rich. But if they were poor it was an upgrade. Their needs (some, not others) were met because the order, collectively, had wealth. For Jedi to make decisions regarding the lives the people who grew up in the harsh environments of poverty and war... this decisions sometimes weren't well informed by personal experience, allowing mistakes to be made. And those who came from less or nothing, remembered the pain and suffering, and saw that they had the power to stop it or to at least help those who were suffering.

That problem wasn't with the Jedi Code. And we're still talking about canon here which is why real life Jediism doesn't need a grey code and all this other stuff that assumes there's something wrong with the Jedi. Real Jedi are different from canon Jedi and therefore do not have the same issues or the same limitations that necessitate such rebellion. In my opinion, a lot of real people are judging the canon Jedi and choosing a different real life path because of these fictional criticisms. In all that I have observed, real Jedi aren't extreme in any sense where it would force a different path in order to balance it. And it's not because real Jedi are grey. No, it is because real Jedi aren't making the mistakes of canon Jedi because we saw the same movies, played the same games, read the same books as everyone else. So why would we imitate all of those mistakes? There's no reason. Those mistakes do not define what a Jedi is.

And so real Jedi don't need a grey path. Understand... the canon Sith rose out of the Jedi. Grey? Rose out of the Jedi. They were all Jedi first (not talking about the Sith species) and disagreement over what to do caused them to depart. This could be a disagreement on the merits of means. For Revan, he didn't split with the Jedi because he wanted to be a bad guy. He was good, wanting to do good. The problem is that villains often think they're good and that they're doing good. The question is for who? And is the means something that will bring peace? Or more war? More suffering? You can't always know in advance. There is much uncertainty in the Force. As such, the Jedi could never predict every outcome; positive or negative.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Revan

Perhaps the Jedi should have gone to war. Revan and Malak didn't join "the other side". They joined the Republic army and Revan became supreme commander. However, it was the JEDI... that were trying to remain neutral! They didn't want to be drawn into that conflict. For what? To kill Mandos? People love Mandos. Now we're all gushing over The Mandalorian series. And obviously there came a time when Mandos weren't trying to kill everyone so was that fight necessary? Or was fighting exactly what Mandalore the ultimate wanted? Did they really want to rule all these systems? Or did they simply want to prove themselves in battle?

But it was this exercise in neutrality and trying not to be a tool of the republic's military that caused Revan and Malak to go to extremes. The problem was that they went to a more light side extreme, idealistically speaking, than the Jedi, who perhaps didn't want to be changed by war. And what happened? Revan and Malak were changed by war. So how were the Jedi wrong when ultimately, Revan and Malak were turned to the dark side and manipulated by a someone more sinister than they?

They may have been strong and powerful as Sith, but they weren't strong in their understanding or experience. You can't just switch back and forth and claim to be a master. Jack of all trades. Revan's story is largely about cleaning up the mess he made, going from one side to the other. They started the Jedi Civil War. So again... maybe the Jedi were wrong in their handling of the Mandalorians. But should they have developed a super weapon like the "Mass Shadow Generator" and turned Malachor V into a graveyard? Was that the right thing? Yes, I'm talking about canon; about legends. Why? Because that's where a lot of this real life grey, Sith, and Revan stuff comes from. People idolize certain characters, seeing them as heroic without necessarily embracing their flaws, failures, weaknesses, and lack of wisdom and understanding and the arrogance to think they knew better.

These are things we all deal with as humans. We want to be the hero of our story but we're also weak. We lack wisdom and understanding. But we think we know so much and so we rebel, not waiting for our peers, not debating until a consensus is reached that considers every angle and perspective. And I love the Revan character too. Just like many others. But I love his story of redemption, not his turn to the dark side. For me his story started after his memory was wiped. They could have just killed this traitorous enemy but they didn't. That's called restraint. And it allowed him to set forth on a path of redemption back to the light. That... is the story.

The Path of Revan is simply one of a "fallen angel"; one that considers a person's fall into darkness and chaos. He didn't fully understand the Jedi path and perspective. Otherwise he wouldn't have rebelled. He didn't fully embrace the Sith path or otherwise he wouldn't have left that either. What we see in the beginning is that he wanted a positive outcome and he was willing to progressively bend his morality around the "means" of fighting the war. This was simply corruption. And so when an even greater force of corruption tempted him with greater means through the use of the star forge, of course he took the forbidden fruit.

This is not the same as grey. Revan went fully dark. And then he came back around, not to the extreme of light he was before when he rejected the Jedi, but more towards the non-extreme that the Jedi he split from were. And so, it's not that the Jedi are extreme light and Sith are extreme dark and grey is happily in the middle. It's that Jedi were in the middle with a positive charge (tendency towards the greater good) while the Sith were in the middle with a negative charge (tendency towards selfish gain). And the stories in the lore tend to focus, not simply on the path of extremists, but on the ability of the mind to slide from one side to the other.

This is why the Revan code in this thread sounds confused to me. It sounds like someone who is trying to have it both ways which will result in unnecessary conflict.

Awesome! Thank you very much for for an awesome in-depth answer, ZealotX! It made things much more clearer for me! This was an really, really good reply! ^^

Really impressed about your deep thoughts about the topic, ZealotX ! Thank you very much! A very insightful reply to my question about Revanism I love this kind of philosophizing! ^^

Sounds like an down-to-earth interpretation!

Very good point that we alle have learned the flaws from the movies and other canon and legends-literature, so "why repeat them?"!

Just to come with more, or other things/perspectives, if someone should have any!

Personally, I no longer see the need for codes. More often than not, they eliminate possibilities rather than providing them.

All is.

I concur

All Is

This is my special meat and gravy. Personally- I use this daily if not some days hourly. For me it helps me remove myself from a lot. The whole circle around me vs I’m a part of the circle. My choice. Codes do this for me sometimes. I know many people who are great without form. (In my best Yoda voice) Think about that, just a different view if I may add.

"The Revanite Code

There is no light without the dark.
Through passion, I gain focus.
Through knowledge, I gain power.
Through serenity, I gain strength.
Through victory, I gain harmony.
There is only the Force."


If this is a focus point - that what the world you see will look like. Codes can be the focus lens we turn to see more at times or maybe see it - this way. This code sounds to me like some one who wants balance - focus -power - strength - and harmony. This is a way some have found it - regardless of my side - some can attest a testimony to it larger than myth - actuality. Codes can be such a beautiful thing. !!! Eventually - they can for some , free.