Following the Myth

soo maybe weird question? im watching lesson one and Joseph campell says that it is important in modern times to adopt a myth and to try and not counfuse it with other myths so that culture can be established within a group. I wonder how people feel about that especially since some here dont seem to follow the myth of Star Wars very closely?

Fyxe wrote: soo maybe weird question? im watching lesson one and Joseph campell says that it is important in modern times to adopt a myth and to try and not counfuse it with other myths so that culture can be established within a group. I wonder how people feel about that especially since some here dont seem to follow the myth of Star Wars very closely?

That's somewhat of the point behind the foundation of TOTJO and it's culture.

We're not here to roleplay, or LLARP; if you will. TOTJO in its current format aims for the goal of being an all-inclusive community in which people of different backgrounds and faiths are encouraged to participate and contribute.

Our special interest groups, such as Abrahamic, Pagan, and Eastern studies have been created specifically to accommodate that intended purpose. Obviously, a TOTJO member who adheres more closely to an Islamic background isn't going to have the same foundation of faith as say a Wiccan from our Pagan community.

However, they can both find common ground in incorporating elements of TOTJO Jediism into their own spiritual practices.

If you can open your mind into considering something outside of an "extremist" view of Star Wars based, fantasy focused Jediism; I think you could take away much more benefit from your studies and interactions here at TOTJO.

You mention other spiritual paths like Christian or whatever, but is there a group for those of us that want to follow a strict adherance to the myth of the jedi?

Fyxe wrote: soo maybe weird question? im watching lesson one and Joseph campell says that it is important in modern times to adopt a myth and to try and not counfuse it with other myths so that culture can be established within a group. I wonder how people feel about that especially since some here dont seem to follow the myth of Star Wars very closely?

The myth has a different value for everyone. At any given time time you may find people at different levels of things, Jedi ism and the myth are no exception. You will find people at different levels of faith and practices as well.
Personally - I subscribe to the All Myth or Every myth for everyone. I can find a hero’s journey in any story or myth. I use them to draw what I need. Aka a good Heracles story fires me up enough to find strength when I need it. When I’m scared - a good - Batman does it for me or a reminder that I can take it. Lol
For me - I totally identify with the MANY archetypes present in the Star Wars movies from the beginning to prolly my the very end... when ever if ever that comes.
What makes one follow closely? Is it relative to how we value the myth as a whole or how the individual does? Do we all need the same amount of practice to practice?
This Temple is here to share and learn. Values can be shared and learned as well as actual myths myth is and story’s. One of the secret freedoms to being a modern day Jeddist is that we have ability to choose the level we want to seek, share and serve or not or even any combination of the 3. Hope this helps a bit. My inbox is always open and as always May the Force be with you as you seek it !

Fyxe wrote: You mention other spiritual paths like Christian or whatever, but is there a group for those of us that want to follow a strict adherance to the myth of the jedi?

Here? Not that I'm aware of.

However, if your are truly seeking to follow a monastic path; there are multiple Monastic orders dedicated to Jediism. Unfortunately, due to TOTJO policies on linking to external communities I can't provide direct links to said orders.

I dont want monastic... like religious.. I was wondering about mythological, like spiritual.

You mention other spiritual paths like Christian or whatever, but is there a group for those of us that want to follow a strict adherance to the myth of the jedi?

Tsst.

I can write anything I want, you can too. Does that make it a "Myth" (in the sort of way that might get alluded to in the IP)

the tale of Jedi in Star Wars is a story, with elements drawn from many sources, and new elements added in perhaps (as with all good stories) but Myth as I'm more or less trying to define it is linked to people it evolves, has a purpose, fills a need, instructs, develops, etc etc.

I suppose there might be some tribe, Basmentus Dwellarus or somesuch that have been raised purely on the tale of Star Wars, and have been perhaps internalised it's meaning as an explanation of all things in the world, but it doesn't seem likely, and (I'm not a big reader of the EU, so catch me if I fall) I don't know that there is a deep enough pool of material exclusively under the brand to support a definitive faith and path for adherents....

Many people here quite enjoy "The Jedi Path" (book) as a "primer" and "thematic teaser" for Jedi-ing, but it is just one book, and (for better or worse) not backed up with much substance of what it promises. You can't actually go to one of the towers, you can't actually learn the sabre forms (or build a sabre) etc etc. I'm confident one or more groups have tried to establish ersatz training regimes to fill that void - but what qualifies them any more than us with their interpretation?


You've sort of got three options here - Buy all the merchanise you can, and take that and only that as the "Gospel" and your source of reference and instruction.
Find someone who has already done that, and accept them as the font of wisdom on the matter.
Do what you want and create your own path, with as much or as little thematic inspiration from Lucas/Disney Jedi as you believe suitable.


Most of the membership here go for the third option, perhaps with the mindset of "A Jedi by any other name..." - meaning, the writings of (lets say) Lao Tzu are as relevant to their path as those of Matthew Stover, even if there are no light sabres.


Edit: More Nonsense -

Think of Earth Jediism as the "Distilled form" - the trappings, the organisation, the weird accessories stripped and just the best parts remain - Courage, Compassion, Clarity, etc (or if you really want to get wild, we can refer to the ToTJO Doctrine) - Focus, Knowledge, and Wisdom

Focus is the art of pruning the irrelevant and pouring the best of your mind into what you are doing.

Knowledge can be acquired by focusing on the task at hand.

Wisdom is the sound application of accrued knowledge and experience through patient, good judgment.


If Star Wars is Pseudoephedrine, Jediism is Methamphetamine

hmm good question! what is the difference between a myth and a story? I think it goes from just story to myth when people make it come alive! King arrthur is a myth because it lives in our minds, right? so does star wars. and even though there are several versions of king authro out there which one is the right one? the oldest one? the koolest movie version? the one you like best? well none of those of course, what matters is what the original said! you cant just reinvent whatever you like and then call it something somebody else made up! that doesnt work!

what matters is what the original said! you cant just reinvent whatever you like and then call it something somebody else made up! that doesnt work!

There we will have to disagree... there is nothing inherently "purer" about an original penning of a tale...

You alluded to it yourself

I think it goes from just story to myth when people make it come alive!

Fyxe wrote: ...but is there a group for those of us that want to follow a strict adherance to the myth of the jedi?

In terms of the Abrahamic/Pagan/etc Special interest Groups, then that would be what used to be called a 'Pure Land Jedi' (or something like that?). I'd fall under this category as I don't subscribe to any other sort of religion/spirituality/philosophy/cult. Though I'm pretty sure we don't really do the whole 'Special interest Groups' anymore. At least not officially.

Anyway, back to the point at hand, I think you'd have to better describe what you mean by the 'myth of the jedi'. As I have understood it, 'Jediism' as practices at the TotJO is more to do with the myths and source material that inspired Lucas to write Star Wars rather than the mythology of Star Wars itself.

Though that is not to say that we can't learn anything from the story of Star Wars (particularly the original trilogy), especially when we relate Luke's 'Hero's Journey' to that of our own path and the lesson inferred with that.

I think the main advantage we have as Jedi is that we know our stories and myths are just that. We're not bound by the idea of them being the gospel truth, and that gives us a great deal of freedom in our interpretation of the lessons we can learn from them. It's ok to question things because ultimately we know that these stories are just made up. I personally think that actually increases their value.

With or without your consent brother brick I’m using this for the rest of my life.

“I think the main advantage we have as Jedi is that we know our stories and myths are just that. We're not bound by the idea of them being the gospel truth, and that gives us a great deal of freedom in our interpretation of the lessons we can learn from them.”

A million thank you s my man , if you were here, our teq. would be cold and blue! Cheers Br Brick and thank you again.

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: ...if you were here, our teq. would be cold and blue!

I'll drink to that!

Cheers Carlos

What I mean by myth of the Jedi is the first 6 movies. Where the Jedi had a temple and lived a certain way and did certain things and held certain ideals. Like no attachment and force powers and upholding justice at the tip of a light saber. Even in the new movies the Jedi are just a myth. Many people dont believe they ever existed! How is that any different than how we on earth take the Jedi? The stories are passed from generation to generation and people want to be what they stood for again. People today want to be midevil knights or samari or other stuff like that. I want to be Jedi. I want to live those things they stood for. King aurthor gets recreated all the time and hes not real so why not Jedi? thats just what I want to try and do.

Why limit yourself to a single set of myths, half of which include Jar Jar?

I hope its OK that I've slightly reordered your comments to make them easier for me to address, I don't believe that in doing this I have changed the meaning of your statements:

Fyxe wrote: I want to be Jedi. I want to live those things they stood for.

What/who is preventing you from doing that?

Fyxe wrote: Where the Jedi had a temple and lived a certain way and did certain things and held certain ideals. Like no attachment and force powers and upholding justice at the tip of a light saber.

The only difficulty with doing this is that its pretty expensive to build a temple, force powers don't exist in our world (at least not anything like in the movies), and if you run around chopping peoples arms off with a laser sword then you're probably going to end up in jail :laugh: .

You could do the whole no attachment thing, but it sounds pretty lonely unless you have a temple of fellow Jedi to do it with. And I'd argue that the Jedi in the movies sucked at the whole no attachment thing anyway. Sure, they had LESS attachment than most, but I'm pretty sure that Qui-Gon Ginn was (emotionally) attached to Obi-wan, who was in turn (emotionally) attached to Anakin and Luke.

Fyxe wrote: Even in the new movies the Jedi are just a myth. Many people dont believe they ever existed! How is that any different than how we on earth take the Jedi?

Because they actually did exist in that universe, whereas they don't in ours. I understand your argument of people wanting to be like medieval knights and samurai, but 1. Knights and Samurais actually existed in our world and 2. There is a reason they don't still exist now.

The Jedi of the film work in their universe because they 'fit' in that universe. Knights work in medieval times because they 'fit' in that time period etc.

To be any of those things today would be too impractical. Worse still, it would simply be a copy of something that came before. In the long run, I don't think it would fulfil you as it would never feel authentic and would therefore never live up to your expectations.

Better to take inspiration from those things you love and create something new which can 'fit' in the time and universe in which we find ourselves now.

Thats my two cents anyway

Jesus is a myth but people try to be like him, right? The practice supernatural healing and prayer against evil, they pretend that wine is blood and bread is his body just like light sabers. They believe he had superpowers that could transform stuff and bring back dead, just like Plageuis. They build massive buildings in his honor. and they also believe he will come back and save them some day. Joseph Cambell said these peiople got that part wrong because they confused poetry with reality but I dont do that. I dont think Jedi will come back but I want to do that other stuff to be like them just like the myth of Jesus. Whats wrong with that? and yes I want to find others that do that too, so that will not leave me alone.

Fyxe wrote: Jesus is a myth but people try to be like him, right?

You and I may consider him a myth. A lot of people, however, consider him to be VERY real.


Again, please define 'trying to be like Jesus'. There is big a difference between 'trying to be like Jesus' as in following the teachings of Jesus, and 'trying to be like Jesus' as in turning water into wine and rising from the dead. People who do the former are accepted by society as Christians or the like. People who do the latter are written off by society as nut jobs.

Fyxe wrote: They practice supernatural healing and prayer against evil, they pretend that wine is blood and bread is his body just like light sabers.

Forgive me but I don't see the parallels between a 2,000 year old supposed 'miracle' and a weapon from a 70's sci-fi film?

Fyxe wrote: They believe he had superpowers that could transform stuff and bring back dead, just like Plageuis.

Yes, but they don't believe that they can do those things. There are a small number who do but, as I've said, society usually deems those people to be insane or con-artists.

Fyxe wrote: They build massive buildings in his honor. and they also believe he will come back and save them some day.

They don't do that so much anymore. In one of the Video's Campbell talks about how you can see what society prioritises by the size of the buildings. 600 years ago, it was churches. Today its Banks.

To build a Jedi Temple big enough to suit your desires requires a lot of money/time/effort. We live in an increasingly secular society, I think you'd struggle to find the funding and labour required for such a thing. I also think you'd struggle to find enough followers to fill it.

Fyxe wrote: I dont think Jedi will come back....

That's probably wise, as they were never here to begin with :laugh:

Fyxe wrote: ...but I want to do that other stuff to be like them just like the myth of Jesus. Whats wrong with that?

As with my Jesus analogy above, I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting to 'be like a Jedi' as in follow their teachings (which is basically what we try to do here).

But if you're wanting to 'be like a Jedi' as in levitate stuff with your mind, fight bad guys with light sabers, and live in a temple with a bunch of people in beige karate clothes, then disappointed you will be.

Fyxe wrote: and yes I want to find others that do that too, so that will not leave me alone.

Like I say, I can't see this happening, but I wish you every success with it. However, even if you do find a piece of land, build a temple, get people interested in joining you there. You will not be viewed by our society in the same way that the Jedi are viewed by theirs in the movies...

Well the fact that they consider jesus real is a mistake like I said. They got poetry and real life mixed up.

Trying to be like Jesus is not following his teachings but living his teachings. For me it means the teachings of the Jedi. The real teachings of the Jedi, not the made up ones. Catholics believe that their grape juice and biscuits actually do transform into real blood and flesh. And they believe their water bucket at the front of the temple is literally touched by jesus. The catholics are not considered nut jobs either. The light saber is no different than this is what I mean. Like our light sabers are not literally lazers unless we believe they are!

I suppose you don’t live in the bible belt? There is an entire city of gold here! build in modern times as a tribute to jesus! So they are still building stuff like that all over the place. We don’t need to build anything so fancy. They guy that built the city of gold started out in a circus tent!! Lol. Lets get a circus tent and start out! That’s what I mean.

I believe psychic powers do exist. there is so much evicence for it there is no way they cant exist. it just becomes a matter of believing like yoda taught luke to do and we can master those as well.

I really like what Fyxe is saying. I was raised with the bible; one book full of many short stories about a group of people and their heroes. Some of their heroes were strong fighters. Some were great thinkers. Some where seers called prophets. And one... well... one was the "chosen one".

This is really no different from star wars.

Every Sabbath(Saturday), growing up, we went to church and we studied the same stories over and over, taking different lessons from them, making the key characters either role models or cautionary tales. Both Jedi and Sith did this in their studies as well. They studied previous masters. When Palpatine spoke to Anakin about Darth Plaguis that's exactly what he was doing; using Jedi history to teach.

Yes, we know Jedi history isn't real. Obviously. But who said it had to be? Who makes those rules about religion and why would/should we follow them? What child doesn't know the story of the three little pigs? Or could fill in the blanks if you mentioned porridge that was "juuuuust right"? What child doesn't know how to do the hokey pokey? Do you know how old that is? And we keep repeating the story of Santa Claus and have a whole holiday where he try not to go broke buying gifts. Not to mention the tooth fairy.

We do all these things get to be fake as fake can be and yet we seem to be scared to actually use star wars mythology for, from my perspective, the exact same purposes?

If you tell your kid a story about something Yoda did or said and they say "but Yoda isn't real!" just say "and neither is Santa so should I stop buying Christmas presents?"

And there is more star wars material out there than books in the bible. But books in the bible are complimented by thousands upon thousands of Christian books that are basically the "extended universe" of the bible. And like star wars there is a biblical cannon as well as books that were rejected from said cannon. And different religions and denominations either stay strictly to the cannon or they embrace more. It's a choice they make without fear because they cannot accept anyone else influencing their religion.

So... begs the question. Are we afraid of other religions making fun of us? Because it doesn't make that much sense that we have forums for people who believe(d) that Jesus actually walked on water but not for people who want to incorporate more of the star wars myths and legends into their study or spiritual development.

ZealotX wrote: We know Jedi history isn't real. Obviously. But who said it had to be? Who makes those rules about religion and why would/should we follow them? What child doesn't know the story of the three little pigs? Or could fill in the blanks if you mentioned porridge that was "juuuuust right"? What child doesn't know how to do the hokey pokey? Do you know how old that is? And we keep repeating the story of Santa Claus and have a whole holiday where he try not to go broke buying gifts. Not to mention the tooth fairy.

We do all these things get to be fake as fake can be and yet we seem to be scared to actually use star wars mythology for, from my perspective, the exact same purposes?

From my experience, this has to do more with societal expectations/norms; and localized culture than much of anything else. A Christian celebrating Christmas, probably isn't going to be received that well in an Islamic community where the recognized celebrations center around "Eid al-Fitr" for example.

In certain communities, celebrating any religious holiday that falls outside of the cultural norms can even be taken as an insult; regardless if that was the intention. Even living in the U.S where such differences are meant to be celebrated, I've seen people become violently angry when those celebrating "alternative" religious holidays come into the mix.

An example I can give of this, is certain groups of Christians fighting against the "happy holidays" greeting. People within these groups sincerely believe that the holiday season is meant for Christmas, and Christmas only.

So I believe our fear comes more from our intuitive understanding that society in general tends to be intolerant, or otherwise less than understanding of views and celebrations that go against their own established traditions.