Cycles of Consciousness

I did my Lesson 1 - Part 1 today, cycles came up a bit, quick thought on that. I was exploring this dimension map I was considering, I wanted to share my explorations, see if anyone has any thoughts.

--Too abstract to conceive
--Platypus
--Imagination
--Wisdom/Understanding
--Forethought/Contemplation
--Experience
--Connection
--Focus
--YAAAWN
--Too abstract to conceive

I was thinking about dimensions in a 2-dimensional plane - connecting point A (low) to point B (high), but what if it wasn't a spectrum? What if it's a cycle? Now we're on a 3-dimensional plane, it looks completely different. Instead of moving up and down, you can travel completely different ways. It's the CIRRRCLE of liiiiiife. It's the wheeeel of - okay, sorry.

I came to this conclusion when I saw I had put "YAAAWN" at the second to bottom, sarcastically as a double reference to the brain shutting off when you lose consciousness and how boring it would be to be below focus. So sleeping is very obviously and scientifically proven to be a direct conduit to the unconscious mind, the dream world. So I think meditation can bring you there, we've proven that too. And we can go up and get lost in our imagination. That gap, the unconscious mind, is on both sides. So why the hell would the sides not be the same thing? A continuum, a cycle. But in 3-dimensions, it would be more like a pulse. A shockwave, a nova. The next dimension would be time, duration of the wave, qualities of the pulse. Like music. So maybe if we get our consciousness to circumvent or warp time, thinking in space, we could pop in and out of any state of consciousness we wanted if we knew the way. Like sensation association triggering memory, bringing you through time to an alternate reality experience. Maybe if you know 100% certainly that you can bring yourself there, you can be there instantaneously. You could associate the sensation of altered consciousness to anything, a smell would likely be the most effective.

That's all fine and dandy, but the real question is... what happens if you cycle through the other way? Oh god, that's the Dark Side, isn't it? God dammit. So that's Vader's story? Going too deep and getting lost, but coming back around the other side into balance with a little help from his friends?

Connecting a lot of dots here, interested to know what other peoples' thoughts are on this, it's a bit overwhelming and I don't get to really talk to anyone about this stuff. Let me know if there's a better place for this stuff, it's just been pouring out of me lately.

I whittle it down to 7 steps (forms); doorway, mirror, medium one, between mediums, medium 2, shoreline, and back of beach. From there it breaks down to 5 distinct movements (trials), which tend to relate most usefully to tooling experience more broadly. If I was to reverse that process it would represent covering of oneself rather then revealing of it... so it might have meaning if you consider Vader et al as being transformation away from self into something else entirely. So relevant to the Empire more then the Sith, and poor Vader was after all a tool of the Sith placed firmly within the machinery of the Empire.

What interests me most is whether that cycle can repeat itself within a lifetime, if the hero's journey can happen more than once. If you can do a full rotation. Like, as if the doorway was on the beach. As above, so below; that whole thing.

The covering (disconnecting from the world) and devolving into primality thing I think is deep in the Sith, I think Darth Maul is a great example of the pure instinctual un-disciplined unconscious. That's where I get confused with the ego balance. I feel like indulgence in primal desires is an unconscious process that is refined by discipline and self-control, which are pretty much embodiments of pure ego. Where Jedi play by rules and structure to bring balance and grow, the Sith seek self-indulgence and to consume. So that's where I get confused with the ego-dragon, maybe controlled chaos is still control? Ohhh shit, maybe it's just different qualities of ego: self-indulgence vs. self-control?

I see it more as growth vs. consumption than covering and revealing. Like Sith consume Force to exert it violently in huge bursts, Jedi cultivate Force and distribute. That consumption motif flows through every Sith - Sideous was disfigured and basically possessed, Maul was a pit bull, Vader became steadily more and more robotic, but nowhere near as robotic as good old General Grievous. I love him as an example of holding on to humanity by a thread. So, say you went the Grievous route and kept reducing and reducing ego - humanity - until it consumes entirely, does that make you go Force Ghost? Like Buddhist Enlightenment? I think Obi Wan and Luke did that on the high vibration side, but I am genuinely curious if that could happen the other direction. It's that cycle concept that's got me hung up - how shocking, stuck in a loop about cycles. Oh boy...

Would someone worthy of seeing what Lesson 1, Part 1 of the IP is these days kindly recap it for the rest of us plebeians? I'm sure a lot of this might possibly make some sense in context, but without any I am barred from participating in this open discussion constructively. Thank you for your patience...

Dzedka wrote: I see it more as growth vs. consumption than covering and revealing. Like Sith consume Force to exert it violently in huge bursts, Jedi cultivate Force and distribute. That consumption motif flows through every Sith - Sideous was disfigured and basically possessed, Maul was a pit bull, Vader became steadily more and more robotic, but nowhere near as robotic as good old General Grievous. I love him as an example of holding on to humanity by a thread. So, say you went the Grievous route and kept reducing and reducing ego - humanity - until it consumes entirely, does that make you go Force Ghost? Like Buddhist Enlightenment? I think Obi Wan and Luke did that on the high vibration side, but I am genuinely curious if that could happen the other direction. It's that cycle concept that's got me hung up - how shocking, stuck in a loop about cycles. Oh boy...

It's a shift in focus I think, the Jedi connecting to the Force as it (the Force), while the Sith directing it as if not of it. So it depends how you define consumption maybe... but to me it seems more like the Jedi breath it in and out, filling every fibre of being.... while the Sith consume and excrete it, using it as a resource for some external effect. To take it to your extreme I'd presume it was to create a larger sense of self and therefore more power in accessing more of the Force for greater effect, ie programming a hive mind by force with the Force... where all avenues of the Force were enabled for effect under the particular Sith's control... but it depends on the dynamics of the Force and what the motivation of the Sith is, but I'm reading you as if its different types of connection. I just don't see them as as reversible necessarily, as reversing breathing is still breathing... or not breathing at all. Reverse eating though... might be possible :lol: but seems a bit messy, so there'd have to be a good reason I suppose.

Gisteron wrote: Would someone worthy of seeing what Lesson 1, Part 1 of the IP is these days kindly recap it for the rest of us plebeians? I'm sure a lot of this might possibly make some sense in context, but without any I am barred from participating in this open discussion constructively. Thank you for your patience...

The basic premise is that of the Heros Journey. It is the cycle of our lives in the idea that our births are a heroic act and that mythology is the means by which we describe those things in our lives that cant be otherwise explained. It is a process of raising our consciousness in self awareness by focusing on these larger than life aspects of reality. Dreams do a similar thing for us, it is a way to explore that inner realm of consciousness and bring ourselves to a greater self awareness. Ritual is the same, these are acts that bring us pleasure through a process of turning our minds inward. They are self realizations that take symbolic form in mythology that take us out of the mundane aspects of our lives.

Now how any of this relates to a platypus is still beyond me?...

Dzedka wrote: What interests me most is whether that cycle can repeat itself within a lifetime, if the hero's journey can happen more than once. If you can do a full rotation. Like, as if the doorway was on the beach. As above, so below; that whole thing.

The covering (disconnecting from the world) and devolving into primality thing I think is deep in the Sith, I think Darth Maul is a great example of the pure instinctual un-disciplined unconscious. That's where I get confused with the ego balance. I feel like indulgence in primal desires is an unconscious process that is refined by discipline and self-control, which are pretty much embodiments of pure ego. Where Jedi play by rules and structure to bring balance and grow, the Sith seek self-indulgence and to consume. So that's where I get confused with the ego-dragon, maybe controlled chaos is still control? Ohhh shit, maybe it's just different qualities of ego: self-indulgence vs. self-control?

I see it more as growth vs. consumption than covering and revealing. Like Sith consume Force to exert it violently in huge bursts, Jedi cultivate Force and distribute. That consumption motif flows through every Sith - Sideous was disfigured and basically possessed, Maul was a pit bull, Vader became steadily more and more robotic, but nowhere near as robotic as good old General Grievous. I love him as an example of holding on to humanity by a thread. So, say you went the Grievous route and kept reducing and reducing ego - humanity - until it consumes entirely, does that make you go Force Ghost? Like Buddhist Enlightenment? I think Obi Wan and Luke did that on the high vibration side, but I am genuinely curious if that could happen the other direction. It's that cycle concept that's got me hung up - how shocking, stuck in a loop about cycles. Oh boy...

I often say I’ve lived more than one lifetime in my life time. Often times I used to call it a character change. I do remember there being times when I looked around and noticed - I didn’t like the way things were going. That’s when the “character change” happened. Specifics are personal but it did happen. I changed locations or jobs or mates and or lovers. I left practices and hangouts and even at times , left home. The journey can repeat or change or even start all over again. In real life - for me it was divorce. It was joining the army.It was running away. It was starting again.it was joining the coast guard. It was moving to a new city or state or getting a new job some where or moving to a new location and making new friends. Some folk stay in their life’s and some don’t. Some live single lives - some don’t. Some live one long life.
Some can live two or three or in some cases - many. Depends on you and your choices. ( this is real life Examples from my life- never hypothetical or fake
Or from a book.) feel free to contact me directly or here or even use discord for
One on one of ya like. May the Force continue to be with you as you seek it!

Ive found some stuff. The platypus comes into your life to give you great wisdom when you have the least clarity. It reassures you that no matter what others may think of you, don’t be afraid to show who you really are. The platypus meaning symbolizes being at peace even when you are isolated. It’s about moving at your own personal rhythm even if everything in your life is going by so fast. It teaches you to swim through your emotions and be aware of your own uniqueness. It’s about being flexible and adaptable when you are pushed in a different direction. It reminds you to balance your life energies and look for the deeper meaning of life.

I thought of the platypus as the concept of a higher plane of imagination - the kind of stuff that we struggle to imagine or believe. When US colonists first found the platypus they thought it was fake, a lot of sea creatures have been treated that too, check out deep sea creatures sometime, they're mind-boggling. Um... aliens, the cantina, the outer rim, maybe that's a better metaphor. The more I do the IP the more I'm getting to know this concept. Still working on patience. It's just so abstract that it's hard for me to visualize, I'm a very visual person. Thus the platypus, lol

"This concept" being what concept? The concept of... discovering things that seem weird at first? Welcome...

A concept we don't have a word for, for something just a step above imagination, "beyond imagination". The concept itself that we're trying to discover, not the action of discovering. Like... imagination forms when we discover it, I'm talking about that abstract concept of what our imagination can't conceive of, it's clearly out there, we just haven't found it yet. I always love using the term Lovecraftian for this, H.P. Lovecraft's (of Cthulhu fame) entire mythological pantheon was based on experiences that were a step beyond human comprehension. It's another very interesting take on this concept, trying to put a word or face on the experience of the unknown. I think that's why I was getting hung up on it, it's the outer limits of our human experience, the edge of our senses. We're constantly expanding it with human experience, but that line is always still there it feels like, and I guess that's the beautiful adventure in all of it. I guess that concept is the Force to me. Geez this journey is a trip.

And in growing - in my path - might just be me - but in my path the ability to leave room for the grow or even the ol “keep an extra chair for company” idea has changed and even evolved or grown new ideas I once had. I admit- each of us applies and receives differently- but isn’t that one of the beautiful things in life...when world shine not collide.

Dzedka wrote: A concept we don't have a word for, for something just a step above imagination, "beyond imagination". The concept itself that we're trying to discover, not the action of discovering. Like... imagination forms when we discover it, I'm talking about that abstract concept of what our imagination can't conceive of, it's clearly out there, we just haven't found it yet.

So... it's this thing that we have neither a name for, nor a conception of, nor a description of, and it is clearly "out there" (boy, is it!) yet it is entirely unclear and we cannot point at it nor even establish that "it" is anything other than complete gibberish. Are you sure you mean by "clearly" the same kind of clear-ness everyone else would? Because to me it sounds like pretentious word salad so far, not like anything clear to anyone.

I always love using the term Lovecraftian for this, H.P. Lovecraft's (of Cthulhu fame) entire mythological pantheon was based on experiences that were a step beyond human comprehension.

I have looked it up again, just to be sure, and it seems that Mr. Lovecraft was actually human. Maybe my sources are faulty, though, if you say he conceived of or comprehended things that are - at least according to you - beyond human conception or comprehension.

It's another very interesting take on this concept, trying to put a word or face on the experience of the unknown. (emphasis added)

"It" being what specifically? And what "this concept" again, I still have not the slightest clue how anyone, including yourself, can understand what you are talking about.

I think that's why I was getting hung up on it, it's the outer limits of our human experience, the edge of our senses. We're constantly expanding it with human experience, but that line is always still there it feels like, and I guess that's the beautiful adventure in all of it.

Where?

I guess that concept is the Force to me. Geez this journey is a trip.

Sure sounds like one...

Forgive format, I'm old-fashioned. "Are you sure you mean by "clearly" the same kind of clear-ness everyone else would?" No one's clear is the same, but I think we can all agree there's always more to learn.

I'm sorry if my language is confusing, these are new concepts of exploration and this conversation is all about finding terms to describe things we don't have words for. I do not have a clue what I'm talking about, that's precisely the problem, but also the reason for conversation, right? I'm talking about what we don't have a clue about. A bit of a paradox, confusion is kinda embedded in it, hard to avoid.

The line of human experience is you. Your line, where your senses end, the limits of your experience. It's entirely yours, different for everyone. The line that I'm trying to determine is the very edge of what we all as a species agree upon, which is an act of futility honestly but man is it fun. Like I just got a dart board.
I suck at darts, I might never get a bullseye, but man is it fun to play.

I think I've gotten to the point where I don't even understand what I'm saying, usually a good sign it's time to meditate a bit.

Dzedka wrote: No one's clear is the same, but I think we can all agree there's always more to learn.

Where?

I'm sorry if my language is confusing, these are new concepts of exploration and this conversation is all about finding terms to describe things we don't have words for.

I think being confusing is the sole purpose of all of this. There is literally nothing you are even talking about. If there was, you could have at least vaguely pointed in its direction by now, but it seems that you are doing your best to avoid that.

I do not have a clue what I'm talking about, that's precisely the problem, but also the reason for conversation, right?

Babbling gibberish? Yes, seems so. It sure doesn't look like it's supposed to be any kind of constructive.

I'm talking about what we don't have a clue about. A bit of a paradox, confusion is kinda embedded in it, hard to avoid.

Noone has a clue about the inner workings of the mind of God, yet most of those conversations get to be coherent at least some of the time, enough at any rate to say what the topic even is. Not so here.

The line of human experience is you. Your line, where your senses end, the limits of your experience. It's entirely yours, different for everyone.

If your computer could form an opinion on the subject, I'm sure it'd beg to differ about it being "different for everyone".

The line that I'm trying to determine is the very edge of what we all as a species agree upon, which is an act of futility honestly but man is it fun.

For everything you believe, no matter how intuitive, there exists not just someone in general, but particularly one or more person with an internet connection who either doesn't or holds the opposite and plenty more who will pretend so for their own amusement. There is literally nothing at all "we all as a species agree upon".


Bear in mind, nothing is gained through this. The IP is not a test of your wisdom, and certainly not a test of how cryptically (up to and surpassing the point of nonsensical-ness) you can speak. It doesn't look wise, or smart, or virtuous, or even just thoughtful. It only looks pretentious. Usually one would try and go in assuming there is substance to be found, but that charity is short-lived if left unjustified.

Gisteron wrote: Bear in mind, nothing is gained through this. The IP is not a test of your wisdom, and certainly not a test of how cryptically (up to and surpassing the point of nonsensical-ness) you can speak. It doesn't look wise, or smart, or virtuous, or even just thoughtful. It only looks pretentious. Usually one would try and go in assuming there is substance to be found, but that charity is short-lived if left unjustified.

While I agree about the IP, I would support people posting their thoughts for discussion, even about what they know not of provided it is not without its own coherency at the least - not everything needs to make sense to everyone reading. I would worry less what people think it looks like.... unless stated as a concern.

"Where?"
Everywhere.

Gibberish is only meaning yet to be discovered. Words without language, like the word "thot" for me - that is gibberish to *my* reality, not to the entirety of universal reality.

I think that's the concept I'm trying to get across, the concept of gibberish, the concept of concepts. Pretty sure we're hopscotching over the line of comprehensible thought here, it sounds Dutch to me too. Well, more Platypus than Dutch but you know what I mean. Not at all surprised we're all confused, we're literally talking about the incomprehensible. Who is a master of that?

Dzedka wrote: Gibberish is only meaning yet to be discovered.

No, that's false. Any number of gibberish things can be entirely meaningless, not as a matter of insufficient understanding, but in principle.

I think that's the concept I'm trying to get across, the concept of gibberish, the concept of concepts. Pretty sure we're hopscotching over the line of comprehensible thought here, it sounds Dutch to me too... Not at all surprised we're all confused, we're literally talking about the incomprehensible. Who is a master of that?

The concept of gibberish is not incomprehensible or close to incomprehensible. Neither is the concept of concepts. You are not getting to a point because there isn't one, not because you are trying to delve into any kind of realm accessible only to super-humans and not mere mortals. I presume the only reason you keep pretending like it is that sort of special is because you crave that sense of profundity or maybe pride for touching upon it. Or maybe you just want how you think it makes you look, who knows. That's why I said earlier that you are not doing yourself any favours, in any case, because at least judging by what you are saying so far, there is nothing either intellectual or spiritual about it, only smoke and mirrors, and unconvincing ones even at that... in my opinion.

Adder wrote:

Gisteron wrote: Bear in mind, nothing is gained through this. The IP is not a test of your wisdom, and certainly not a test of how cryptically (up to and surpassing the point of nonsensical-ness) you can speak. It doesn't look wise, or smart, or virtuous, or even just thoughtful. It only looks pretentious. Usually one would try and go in assuming there is substance to be found, but that charity is short-lived if left unjustified.

While I agree about the IP, I would support people posting their thoughts for discussion, even about what they know not of provided it is not without its own coherency at the least - not everything needs to make sense to everyone reading. I would worry less what people think it looks like.... unless stated as a concern.

The day I realized this ^^^^^ that I don’t have to understand every one or everything .. gave me a peace that I can’t explain and gladly so lol

Carlos.Martinez3 wrote: The day I realized ... that I don’t have to understand every one or everything .. gave me a peace that I can’t explain and gladly so lol

That's awful... You have my condolences.