"Not Serious but Sincere" - or The Romanticisation of Jediism

I'm wondering what went through your head when reading the thread title.

What does that phrase and term mean to you?

Does romaticizing Jediism affect one's approach to it? Can romanticisation make one more serious than sincere?

Well to me its the difference between 'idealism' and 'realism'

Realism reminds us that we all have this inescapable irreducible rascality

I was half expecting this topic from Maitre

To me, it brings to mind a distinction on ones focus. In any community, but especially those with a religious leaning, one can see the more "serious " individuals engaging in (at risk of being offensive) dubious, or even down right performative behavior. I'm not talking about people who behave differently in different settings, many of us do this, it's normal.
I'm talking about when someone only reminds others of their stance or practices, what have you, in relation to others, usually by way of criticism. People whose seriousness is high but sincerity is lacking are the most likely to lash out at peers, lest they themselves should come under scrutiny.

TL;DR- "Serious" people are conspicuously concerned with others, while the "Sincere" keep themselves in check just fine, nevermind the others.

Sometimes being too serious also causes us to view things through an unrealistic lense (seriously, most of the Jedi in the movies with dialogue do not act like real people and much of their behavior is informed by well meaning but bad ideas and we'd do better to learn from their mistakes), and this not only causes us undue stress and anxiety for our inability to measure up to our own expectations, but causes us to still lash out at others for imagined failings and even perceived apathy.

Balance is preferable between the two, but if one feels compelled to choose, I sincerely hope they choose sincerity.

It occurs to me I probably just said the same thing as Ros, but more obnoxiously long winded ^_^U

So, what does it mean to not become hung up on seriousness, or romaticizing things? This is assuming that it doesn't mean becoming apathetic of course! What does it mean to lean more toward sincerity? What does this look like?

Also, is this something that can be actively learned here or is it more of a natural growth progression if it is beneficial for being a Jedi?

It makes me think of two quotes.

"Think lightly of yourself and deeply of the world" - Miyamoto Musashi

"You can't take life too seriously. You'll never get out alive." - Ryan Reynolds in Van Wilder

To me people who take something too seriously fail to see the flaws in it, and everything has flaws. Or they only see the flaws, and everything has beauty too.

What exactly do you mean by seriousness? Do you mean conviction? Radicalism? Delusional thinking?

If someone actually believes in star wars Jedi as real individuals and that they are one of that number by some self imposed devine decree from an internet website and as a result commit action against their perceived version of a Sith then that is no different than real life radical extremists today that commit terrible acts in the name of their God.

Driving planes into buildings is horrendous no matter how you slice it but if you believe you are a noble jedi on a divine mission to balance the force by attacking the epitame of evil that occupy that building of sith them who can ever convince you otherwise?

I often use the word romantic when talking to individuals about things...
when I first saw a Jedi - it was the romance of some one who can actually be calm and smart and open and willing and able to speak to any one. I’ve met Buddhist like this - Mormans- Christians- monks clergy - Taoist- and a whole lot of regular folk who exube character ( for me) worth having. For me - this is the romantic side - the constant balance.

Proteus wrote: I'm wondering what went through your head when reading the thread title.

What does that phrase and term mean to you?

Does romaticizing Jediism affect one's approach to it? Can romanticisation make one more serious than sincere?

I compare it to a relationship.

When you are dating someone, you can fall into the trap of putting them on a pedestal. Without noticing it, you build up this idea of the person that is not grounded in reality, and you project outwardly onto this image all kinds of expectations that are unrealistic and counterproductive.

It makes the relationship tense, as one or both members of the relationship are emotionally vested into this projection, and because it is not based in truth, it can only be maintained forcefully.

It is possible that the various rites of passage associated with Knighthood here cultivate that atmosphere of seriousness, and it is possible to play into unnecessary drama, if we forget the rites are metaphorical rather than literal.

Manu wrote:

Proteus wrote: I'm wondering what went through your head when reading the thread title.

What does that phrase and term mean to you?

Does romaticizing Jediism affect one's approach to it? Can romanticisation make one more serious than sincere?

I compare it to a relationship.

When you are dating someone, you can fall into the trap of putting them on a pedestal. Without noticing it, you build up this idea of the person that is not grounded in reality, and you project outwardly onto this image all kinds of expectations that are unrealistic and counterproductive.

It makes the relationship tense, as one or both members of the relationship are emotionally vested into this projection, and because it is not based in truth, it can only be maintained forcefully.

It is possible that the various rites of passage associated with Knighthood here cultivate that atmosphere of seriousness, and it is possible to play into unnecessary drama, if we forget the rites are metaphorical rather than literal.

So far, everyone's responses have been very valuable to me to get a view from all your perspectives, but Manu, what you've said here seems to speak to me the most! Thank you!

Please do continue sharing your thoughts, those who have and haven't yet!

I have enjoyed all the responses.

Manu, you've touched on something that brought another idea to mind: thst of the "black belt". This whole idea that I'm done learning once I get.

For me it has been the opposite. I have done my greatest learning as a Knight

Proteus wrote: I'm wondering what went through your head when reading the thread title.

What does that phrase and term mean to you?

Does romaticizing Jediism affect one's approach to it? Can romanticisation make one more serious than sincere?

To me serious is the application of resources as effort being more then sufficient to meet the expected need. The concept of 'application of resources' to me is the mapping of accurate relations between concepts, ie truth aka accuracy in depth. So there is no negativity associated to it AFAIK despite it being potentially misplaced and a wasted effort, or being inappropriate timed.

Sincere is just a statement about intent to be 'not misleading'.

So 'not serious but sincere' to me would be a statement of truth about something superficial.

And so I'd have to say a sincere reflection on Jediism that romanticizes it - would be to imply both a serious understanding and close relationship with, aka an appearance of wisdom and experience.

If its true then it might be (wisdom), but if its false then its probably not... so the application of that really starts to talk about the person saying it more then anything else IMO. As the process could be said to make a lot of assumptions in the leap from superficial context to 'surity from depth', so its best to use softening language IMO so to avoid appearing like one is trying to lecture as if there is only their way or the wrong way, and so instead I take the approach to exercise it as personal growth or exploration of concepts rather then truth. The other option though is to use it to reinforce an appearance of wisdom regardless of the risk of looking like a tool for not knowing what one is talking about it and 'romanticizing the stone', so to speak

So by my definitions above, and my application above, I would not be surprised if I appeared serious about it... but that is why I'm here because my circumstances allow me to be at this time and I justify the effort for my own reasons. The results are of course up for debate :silly:

First, let me say I am a real space wizard, if I wasn't why would I wear this cloak?

You can in fact laugh at things. I am the type who laughs at funerals, why? Because, I would rather spend my time laughing about the good times than crying over the coffin of my friend. Being at the funeral is serious, laughing over the good memories is sincere about the loss

Romanticism is found every where, Manu touched on a good point, I think that is an important way to look at it and one I have experienced myself to great determent. I also want to present this. Every single thing you do, you have undoubtedly romanticized in your own head. If you don't then you have no expectations, no goals, no outcomes or reasons to act. Think about that for a second. Even while writing this I am romanticizing my own writing hoping that it comes off in the voice that few here have actually heard in real life. The voice that makes me......well me.

If romanticism helps yourself growth than let it, if it begins to impede you in most cases others will notice and begin to mention it to you, take heed in those cases, at least consider what is said.

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

I tend to use 'embodiment of a model' more then 'romanticizing an idea(l)'. For me I tend to define romanticizing as a type of embodiment which just sees the positives, a bit of a fairy tale. Putting lipstick on a pig sort of thing
It's fun till the damn pig eats all your make up.... but its a good way to motivate. It sounds like a very visual concept. I wonder if sound can be romanticized!?

Kobos wrote: First, let me say I am a real space wizard, if I wasn't why would I wear this cloak?

Does that mean that you have romanticised it so much that it no longer serves a practical function in reality? I think it is fine to laugh at a funeral but we also must cry or that emotion gets buried and turns to something bad. So how can you tell if your romanticism is functioning to your advantage or your detriment? When one becomes lost in delusion they are often times convinced they are acting for the greater good when objectively speaking they are really not.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote:

Kobos wrote: First, let me say I am a real space wizard, if I wasn't why would I wear this cloak?

Does that mean that you have romanticized it so much that it no longer serves a practical function in reality?.

Please keep in mind that these are only responses that apply from a personal perspective. This was a light sarcastic attempt at being facetious but a valid question as applies in general. I would say this is more a product of looking at something as myths and then applying the real to it. The ideals set in this myth (the cinematic Jedi), are still of very important part of the function of my reality. For example, the Bushido code is an interesting set of guidelines to live one's life by. However, the unromantic samurai was not at all an example of the importance of the code to me. Because, in reality they were kind of douches, in a class system, designed to keep power in the hands of few. So, does wearing the cloak make me any more Jedi than anyone else? No, not really it's a way of me showing I believe in a certain set of teachings and a way to have fun on occasion.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I think it is fine to laugh at a funeral but we also must cry or that emotion gets buried and turns to something bad.

I agree! I suppose, I just personally see the time of a funeral one to move on from grief. One should grieve loss in the way they see fit. That one is just mine.

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: So how can you tell if your romanticism is functioning to your advantage or your detriment? When one becomes lost in delusion they are often times convinced they are acting for the greater good when objectively speaking they are really not..

So, this is a nice meaty question. Thank you Kyrin. First part of understanding your own disillusionment is understanding that the definition of normality is fluid(it is a given metric by the majority of society). IMHO one's romanticism can be gauged on a scale of good to bad through situational awareness and self reflection. If one can (as close to objectively as possible) look at their actions and show that the self nor community determent is not a debilitating/harmful level, that's a good start. The second part, of this is being open and willing to communicate. It is important to realize that other's perspectives are often a decent gauge of objectivity, when taken with a grain of salt. The final part to cracking the egg here is understanding that one's "greater good" is always (I mean always) skewed by personal perspective. Accepting that one can in fact be delusional is vital in this equation (humility). Being able to take others input on their greater good, openly listening (without presumption of insult to an individuals own world perspective) and what in reality exists are often going to be off kilter with the "normality" of majority opinion. It takes a certain level of personal reflection (not personal affirmation, which many confuse with personal reflection) and inventory of one's actions to really dig in and see when your own ideology has stopped fitting the actual definition "greater good".

Much Obliged for the questions!

Much Love, Respect and Peace,
Kobos

What if, "Romanticisation of Jediism" referred not only to literal interpretation of being a Jedi, but also one's own unique take on it? Not so much that one might have one but rather how unyieldingly insistant one clings onto it as their primary way of personally validating themselves about being a Jedi, that any or at least most other approaches one sees, suddenly seem objectively incorrect to them?

When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

OB1Shinobi wrote: When i read the title i think of someone whose “warrior training” consists of dressing up in robes and swinging a toy lightsaber in the back yard.....maybe they even supplement with Tai Chi or Wing Chun or even (the most dreadest of all the invincible deadly mystic warrior arts) Aikido (lol). Someone who wants to be a “healer” by learning about aromatherapy and the “vibrations” of crystals. Someone who persues “wisdom” by reading Deepak Chopra and Wayne Dyer. People who tell each other they have “old souls” and “healing hands”. They're all very sincere (they believe in what they are doing) but theyre not very serious (cause what theyre doing doesnt amount to anything more than playing around). The real kicker of it is that they actually think they ARE being serious.

That's rough man. What would be the serious counterpart?

Rosalyn J wrote: That's rough man. What would be the serious counterpart?

The serious counterpart is real education and real training.

If you want to be a warrior, join the military- they really go to war.
If you want to be able to fight, join a fight gym- they really fight.
If you want to be a healer, try medical school, or an EMT/S program, or become a nurse- they really heal people.

That sort of thing.

OB1Shinobi wrote:

Rosalyn J wrote: That's rough man. What would be the serious counterpart?

The serious counterpart is real education and real training.

If you want to be a warrior, join the military- they really go to war.
If you want to be able to fight, join a fight gym- they really fight.
If you want to be a healer, try medical school, or an EMT/S program, or become a nurse- they really heal people.

That sort of thing.

I see. Thanks