Re:"The Force" and it's Knights

If you're seeing this again I accidentally posted this in the wrong section lol

"I've been thinking a lot about this before asking. It's a two-fold question. I looked at some things dealing with "jediism" being questioned as a legal faith to obtain exempt status. Beyond the legal question thougg, it still begs to be answered.. and I can kind of see why they would to..

What IS "The Force" to us? A literal Truth, the "cornerstone" of our reality, or a figurative concept of our philosophical ideas?

The other question following naturally is what are we to this "Force"? As knights and as individual beings..

I have my own thoughts but I wanted this to be a real discussion before I put my two cents in with everyone else's. Maybe we were denied status for legal reasons, but this happening occurred for reasons beyond legality.. IMO

Thoughts, Ideas, Questions? Speak your mind.."

If you'll have a look at our Doctrine, you'll realize that it is loose. It is loose for a reason. Many of the people who arrive here at the Temple of the Jedi Order come with histories in other religions. Histories where everything is defined, everything is boxed, and as a consequence there is a general lack of freedom and movement. Because of this, the general feeling is that their historical religion did not "speak" to them.
Here we don't define too many things. We value exploration and the capacity and responsibility of each person within our order to do their own searching and discovery of meaning and practice

Rosalyn J wrote: If you'll have a look at our Doctrine, you'll realize that it is loose. It is loose for a reason. Many of the people who arrive here at the Temple of the Jedi Order come with histories in other religions. Histories where everything is defined, everything is boxed, and as a consequence there is a general lack of freedom and movement. Because of this, the general feeling is that their historical religion did not "speak" to them.
Here we don't define too many things. We value exploration and the capacity and responsibility of each person within our order to do their own searching and discovery of meaning and practice

I mean this in the strict sense of defining only as something real to us or not. Something to be explored and letting It define itself. Something that has been continuously explored over the millennia. Religious codes and doctrines have entrapped us with forms of the truth. Boxed us in. When the Truth is supposed to free us. I've always taken that from the lessons put in the fictional stories..

The strict Jedi religion, and it's dedication to the Republic as an Order, hindered it from actually following The Force. They were bound to Jedi truths instead of living in the Truth. As a consequence they contributed to the imbalance and suffering in the galaxy..

Jaedon Adar-Barnaby wrote: What IS "The Force" to us? A literal Truth, the "cornerstone" of our reality, or a figurative concept of our philosophical ideas?

The other question following naturally is what are we to this "Force"? As knights and as individual beings..

Thoughts, Ideas, Questions? Speak your mind.."

Hey the force can be defined as everything... We are nothing to the force but we ourselves are as valuable as a supernova..

Though we cause destruction we create. Life is order and destruction is chaos. So we humans are governed by the celestial forces beyond our control. Yet we also govern the celestial forces.

Thanks

I think this is a special question, and as such, deserves a special answer.

I wouldn't dare say I have the answer though; it seems that answer is for you to find out. That is your Path; "figuring out the Force" and getting 'closer; to it that is.

The Force can be all of those things, a combination, or none at all- but whatever it is, we commonly know it as Ways of the Force...

Remember, it has been said that the Ways of the Force are many, but the Path is one; step by step, we each follow the Force onwards and upwards . in our own ways.

Also, (on a more "religious" or "fiction" based tip) look at the Code; Fae Coven said that the Code is an encapsulation of a Jedi's relationship to the Force.

It has five lines- maybe that's a hint towards the manifold experience of something?

Who knows? Only you can know anything yourself; meditate on the Jedi Code, and the Light of the Force will surely find you.

MTFBWY

One of my joys in my own jedi ism is the ability to practice what I choose. Secondly this gives every one else the same freedoms I use. When the two , (seem) to not match conflict occurs. I also subscribe to a, for me, simple idea, the no contest contest. No way am I in contest with you for any reason way shape or form. This nulls the conflict that often occurs. For me. In this light , then I can steadily stand on the fact that your force and my force are not the same , and that's ok! They will not and can not, we are entirely two difrent hearts with verrrry difrent paths. When I say no contest I mean I can encourage you to keep seeking the force , your force as I seek mine . We both begin to grow in this light. That's my focus , to grow. NOT to fight argue or even ever tell you your right or wrong. The ability to use the syncretism in our faith the way we do frees many on a daily basis.
Go figure , a religion that says , you go .., be you, find out who you is, and be it , build it and ..... enjoy it. Do it. Share it with others . That's acceptance in a difrent way I was used to. ( blew my mind) what a FORCE

I don't mean to be contentious. However, there are some things that we can't avoid. Biggest of all is that in reality we can't have our own truth. Anymore than we can declare a tree as a blade of grass.

I can give my experience of what I mean..

When I was about 10. I learned how to Astral project. Actually, I just so happened to discover it. I had never heard of astral projection. All I knew was I could observe the waking world while sleep. I assumed I was in the spiritual world. It started with simple tests and games to see how real my experience was.. when I finally felt comfortable with traveling. I ventured out into my neighborhood. I thought I was in for a peaceful drifting. Until I ran into something evil.

All I can tell is that it was pitch black. Beady, cold eyes. And a bark that sounded more like a shotgun blast than an actual animal. Given my Christian background. I could only describe it as a Hell Hound.. Sometimes I ask myself, "What was it really?" "What is it made of? Where did it come from? What was it even doing there? How does it function? Is it attracted to some things and repelled by others?"

Needless to say though, I never did try to investigate as fear gripped me like nothing I've ever known in life. However, investigating these other sides of reality is an inherent part of our study I believe. If we are to understand the whole of The Force anyway. It's essence and the things that are manifested because of it..

Religion and Philosophy would argue all day about the interpretation of that one event. A truly scientific study, truth seeking, would seek to recreate the event to study it further.. and I believe if we, scientifically, get closer to The Force. It would come closer to us..

Biggest of all is that in reality we can't have our own truth. Anymore than we can declare a tree as a blade of grass...


Out of curiosity ... do u think a blade of grass is a tree ?


Which is grass which is tree ? Many would trample on it in passing. There is a cedar there . That's my yard. That's my cedar. To a mower it's just grass ... to me it's a tree ...

I am not sure if this is relevant, but I feel it has some place in this thread.

When George Lucas was interviewed about the creation of Star Wars and the Jedi Knights, he admitted he wanted to get people curious and asking questions... NOT starting a religion, but just getting people more curious about wandering into inquiring about the mysteries of the Universe.

That's where I feel "Jedi" takes us... it's not THE answer... it's just the gateway, the threshold, where we get good at asking the right questions.

There is a general ethical code attached to it, but it is greatly fluid, on purpose.

The Force is like gravity, its a little different for everyone.

Manu wrote: I am not sure if this is relevant, but I feel it has some place in this thread.

When George Lucas was interviewed about the creation of Star Wars and the Jedi Knights, he admitted he wanted to get people curious and asking questions... NOT starting a religion, but just getting people more curious about wandering into inquiring about the mysteries of the Universe.

That's where I feel "Jedi" takes us... it's not THE answer... it's just the gateway, the threshold, where we get good at asking the right questions.

There is a general ethical code attached to it, but it is greatly fluid, on purpose.

It's relevant, I posted this out of curiosity sort of.. to see the questions people had and if they might be like mine. I've had weird experiences in my life and mostly held them to myself..

Even to the point where when some would say "We don't believe we can lift cars." I would say, "Why not?"

Asking the question is probably the answer. Our perception is limited when compared to what we tend to believe as real, so while science asserts useful mechanisms to define the most likely reality, we often find ourselves eventually/sometimes realizing some information lays outside of our own capacity to define it.... be it a capability to measure it or contextualize sufficient detail to match experience of it - and so the how the Force might manifest sits neatly at that face of the unknown, but some Jedi like myself also find it useful to assert that the Force exists among all things because it serves a useful ally to recognize the extent of the unknown around even what we think we know.

Jaedon Adar-Barnaby wrote: I don't mean to be contentious. However, there are some things that we can't avoid. Biggest of all is that in reality we can't have our own truth. Anymore than we can declare a tree as a blade of grass.

Dear Jaedon,

I understand your problems, Jaedon, and that is precisely, why we have communities. To share, to create, and correct each other. That is the problem with diversity within the community. We are suppressed in many ways by differing opinions. Politics is about gaining support and so if the community decided, one day they wanted to find the mountain yeti 'the leader' is that person who comes forth able and willing to achieve what the community desires. At least in most societies if our desire was strong enough.

They say the old adage that ignorance is bliss because what you don't know cannot hurt you. However knowing the truth can be exactly the opposite it can be warm, beautifully enriching. But others may be afraid of the truth and not wish to hear it. And as such the truth is a funny subject which can be twisted and dissected, scrutinized and rejected. That we can also create terror and fear because of our conviction to our truth. So in many ways the truth itself is controlled by our community sometimes fiercely because they are afraid or that such truth is superfluous to the needs and wants of the community.

I share your experiences having sometimes terrible dreams. I had a dream which was very lucid enough for me to walk around and explore a garden. Yet there was also a large animal like a tiger with metal fur and it was speaking with me. The language was emotion and the sound was like a dog bark. However that is the nature of our experiences, i believed the tiger was a divinity. But we cannot make assumptions about our experiences and neither can we hold it so strongly, that others distance themselves from us.

This lucid dreaming in my dream might have been a tiger and it might have been hungry and it might have been trying to tell me something. I believe in my dream if you drop your guard, there could be gnashing of teeth. Therefore do not forget that life itself is precious and dangerous. And Jaedon your experience sounds like mine. However there is a difference between lucid dreaming and astral projection. In that Lucid dreaming can be as good as virtual reality but that computer generated reality is as real as the imagination which we have.

I agree with you Jaedon, we as humans our most carnal instincts come forward in dreams and we humans seek novelty and mysteries to explore the unusual and that is how spiritualism developed. It is a human instinct. Humans wish to explore all aspects of nature and part of that is our own internal reality. Yet science is usually compelled by what is profitable rather than to pursue knowledge, unlike our ancient Greek friends, Plato and his teacher Socrates. Whom also attempted to study these manifestations of our consciousness. It sounds like we are all willing ourselves to be connected to special powers and special experiences, when we forget how special our own shared reality is. Carl Jung also said many things about dreams and it has plagued the greatest minds.

What IS "The Force" to us? A literal Truth, the "cornerstone" of our reality, or a figurative concept of our philosophical ideas? What are we to this "Force"? As knights and as individual beings..

It is like describing how a television works, useful if your an engineer, but it doesn't let us watch it any better. We only need a simple understanding to use a television. The force is too complex for one person to understand much like theoretical physics. We are the same as always have been, when we are born we loan some materials from our planet to create our body and we give it back upon our death. And reality itself has borrowed energy from the universe and eventually the energy will be given back. Does that energy determine our value? Perhaps it does and it can be measured in how much our parents raise the young with their money. Or it can measured in our impact upon the planet. We should give back what the universe gave to us by helping to correct the expensive nature of existing upon the planet.