My first post topic: the taboo

Hello everyone, i am merely a guest and a rather new one at that. i have just signed up today actually.

I wouldn't know where to post something like this so i just went for open discussion.
This is my question.

What is the Jedi stance on Intoxicants, stimulants, and holistic.
example Alcohol, Tabaco, and Marijuana.

I am 19 and I've had my experiences with all 3.
alcohol is my least favorite though i do enjoy it casually at times. but i have seen what it does to me and others when you drink to much. you become belligerent, dumb, and aggressive.
Tabaco or Cigarettes i know are bad for your health and its a habit id like to kick. other then the link to cancer i don't see the harm if someone chooses to use it as their outlet for stress.
Marijuana is the one i find the most question with. it is a curious thing and I myself would be considered an average or above average consumer. it relaxes the body and the mind and some even use it as a Meditation aid. For myself it puts helps to ease my mind and puts me in a state where id like to meditate. Yet the health effect have yet to be discovered. there have been no definitive proof that it does or doesn't cause damage to your lungs. some say it causes major psychological changes others say it cures cancer

I ask this because i stumbled upon this website and i find the Teachings and lessons here to be something id like to work on as well as meditation being something id like to experiment with.

I would like to know what the people of this community feel about these things.

With Respect

Oren Heller

Do what you like, harm none on the way.

I don't think there is a "the Jedi stance on" anything, really... There are some things the Temple stands for and you can read up on those on the front page and related pages like the FAQ or the Doctrine, but even on those most members, let alone visiting Jedi or plain visitors often are quite divided.

On a Jedi stance, as long as you're not endangering anyone, the choice is yours.

On a personal note, as long as you don't become dependent or in trouble with these things, I don't see that there's anything wrong. Tobacco and drugs have been used in many religious ceremonies, although I personally don't use them for various reasons

With regard to one's personal habits, I suppose I'm going to go with Proteus on this one. That said...

It would be worth it to discuss addiction. Not with the intention of coming up with a party line or a policy, but I would be interested in perspectives on addiction and this Jedi Path.

I don't imagine too many people here would take exception with the odd beer or glass of wine. Relatively few of us do not drink socially, I suspect. Alcoholism is a different matter. I am only using alcohol as an example. One can be addicted to all manner of things, I understand.

Could one, though, live a Jedi life while an active addict?

Here, the term active addict is distinct from addict in recovery. I realize that something like the Jedi Life has not been described or agreed upon by everyone. I ask you to be flexible on that, as quibbling over it steals focus from the real question. Just speak from your own place, define what you need to, and avoid the endless splitting of hairs.

If yes, why? If no, what are the limits? Could you be a smoker and a Jedi? I imagine all the smokers here would give a resounding "YES!"

I'd be interested in the exploration of this. I'm going to go consider my response. If this needs to be bumped to another thread, that's cool.

As it were, Jedi tend to have all sorts of bad habits ...

... but some really bad habits does not impede one from being a really good Jedi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSwSh0GLr84

I suggest looking at the most recent research and deciding for yourself. I personally don't have a problem using any of those under the right circumstances, but I know myself and don't keep any of them in the house. I don't like the idea of ALWAYS doing any of them, though. I need to perform at my best and these things rarely help me do that in my day to day life.


Defeating my addictions has become a source of great strength, but that simple statement implies I have addictions to defeat. I consider myself a Jedi, so, yes you can be addicted to something and still be a good Jedi.

Assuming one agrees I am a good Jedi.

with all due respect most of the feedback youre getting is incomplete

a jedi is expected to be responsible for themself in an intelligent, informed, and mature way

the feedback youve recieved so far is a result of the communities understanding that at the heart of things, none of us is in a posotion to dictate what anyone else is SUPPOSED to do

but i will tell you that if you have not made the connection between what you DO and what you KNOW then you are still in the proccess of LEARNING to be a Jedi

a Jedi is one who has made the commitent to live that connection

EDIT

i want to add that first and foremost
JEDI is a standard that you apply to yourself

my way of explaining it is to say that being a jedi means applying the standard of excellence to everything that one does

this is a relationship with exists soley within the individual jedi and does not really involve anyone else, although we utize each others experience and perspective so that we may nurture that internal relationship

also i want to say to be wary of anyone who tells you pursue anything less than excellence

or who seems to demand that you agree with their interpretation of what excellence is
beyond the general conditons that it be well INformed and and well PERformed

if you know what you are doing and you do it well then you have achieved the basic standard of excellence

lastly i want to suggest that is ok to not yet be excellent;
there is no shame in aiming for the stars and only reaching the clouds

but it is a shame for a falcon to choose to walk
because it is afraid that it may somehow fall

Cabur Senaar wrote: With regard to one's personal habits, I suppose I'm going to go with Proteus on this one. That said...

It would be worth it to discuss addiction. Not with the intention of coming up with a party line or a policy, but I would be interested in perspectives on addiction and this Jedi Path.

I don't imagine too many people here would take exception with the odd beer or glass of wine. Relatively few of us do not drink socially, I suspect. Alcoholism is a different matter. I am only using alcohol as an example. One can be addicted to all manner of things, I understand.

Could one, though, live a Jedi life while an active addict?

Here, the term active addict is distinct from addict in recovery. I realize that something like the Jedi Life has not been described or agreed upon by everyone. I ask you to be flexible on that, as quibbling over it steals focus from the real question. Just speak from your own place, define what you need to, and avoid the endless splitting of hairs.

If yes, why? If no, what are the limits? Could you be a smoker and a Jedi? I imagine all the smokers here would give a resounding "YES!"

I'd be interested in the exploration of this. I'm going to go consider my response. If this needs to be bumped to another thread, that's cool.

in the recovery world the accepted and taught belife is that an addict is always an addict or that a pickle cant go back to being a cucumber

i used to be a pretty serious alcoholic
it put me behind bars and then on the streets
where i found heroin
what fun that was
eventually i supplanted my heron addiction with methamphetamene

i was homeless for years

what i can tell you is that no matter what anyone else says there is a big difference between having wisdom and being wise

ive always had wisdom
i can find wisdom floating around in th air
i can look up right now and make a wise and insightful lesson based on the first random object that i see

but i am wise only to the extent that my behavior reflects my wisdom

i will say in case youre wondring that i no longer drink (i cant even force myself to drink anymore) or do drugs or smoke cigarettes (i was a pack a day- when i lived on the street i would buy $1.00 rolling papers and take the butts out of ashtrays to roll my own

i could put a filter in it when i rolled it)

but i am not a drug addict any more

i have made the connection between what i know and what i do

--mostly

lets say ive made the genuine commitment to that connection and my life is begining to reflect that commitment

Personally, I agree with my fellow Jedi in that providing you do not harm yourself or others then there is no problem with indulging in any of them on occassion (though I do not smoke I do have a drink or two on special occassions) as the saying goes "everything in moderation".

However, from a Jedi perspective and in line with the beliefs and teachings etc, though not really frowned upon, I would say no drugs (Inc tobacco and alcohol) is necessary. The body does not need any of them to be healthy, and arguably none of them add to your life (though I can see some may argue that point). The meditative state you mentioned that drugs can help attain can be attained without them, it just takes time, practice and control. As a Jedi I would think it is more pertinent to dedicate that time and effort to gain that level of control without aid.

Being objective though, my perspective is probably tainted by my personal opinion as no doubt others are too. To be a Jedi is different for each of us and we hold ourselves to our own moral standards. What is acceptable to one person is not always acceptable to others.

Also, though I have been a 'Jedi' for most of my life, within the temple I am only a novice so my words may lack the wisdom of those more learned than myself.

Greetings,

The issue isn't necessarily with the substance, but with the attachment to the substance in its addiction. I indeed use marijuana, smoke cigarettes occasionally, and drink alcohol sparingly. But I do drink coffee in excess. The only actual addiction I have would be coffee. The others I use occasionally or once in a blue moon, under certain conditions. I guess you can say that these are more medical than any recreational sense (helps not to take pills and the like). So the question isn't whether the Temple or Jediism in general is for or against a specific substance. It is more about the attachment and addiction (Everything in moderation). That is my understanding, but like you, I am also new here and waiting on my application to be processed, so I can only give you my thoughts. MTFBWY

what am i attached to that i desire to smoke or get drunk in the first place?

why is it ok to hurt myself just because i feel like it but its not ok to hurt someone else just because i feel like it?

A previous thread that might interest you would be this one Legalization of medical and recreational marjiuana .

There were a lot of good points made on lots of different sides of the issue. It's not exactly the same but overlaps enough that it could be of interest.

Personally I do not agree with the use of any of the substances you've listed, but as long as you are not hurting others in their use I do not think it's my place to tell you that you can't use them. What you do to your own body is up to you as long is does not affect mine.

I guess if you cannot stop something despite your best efforts, it could be approached to understand in terms of why you have to do it. If withdrawel includes physical pain and disablement then it's likely a physiological addiction and one probably should not blame themselves for its continuation in the absence of treatment.

Treatment for physiological addiction is a medical issue, but I'd imagine it might consist of things like very gradual decrease in dosages. This is a common technique, and even used routinely for some medicines such as immuno-suppressants where sudden cessation of the medicine would cause serious health effects - so instead they gradually lower the dose before stopping it, to allow the body time to adjust it's own systems to compensate. Seek medical advice in these circumstances obviously, and sometimes you can also find anonymous medical advice services as well so you can ask the gritty questions without worrying about being identified etc.

If its just a recreational habit, for fun, then it's most likely equivalent to a hobby and any damage caused as a result is just the price of admission to put it bluntly. Ignorance of the effects as an excuse can only go so far in the case of repeated use.

If a person is worried about what they are doing to themselves but keep on doing it, then I think we gotta understand our bodies are designed to operate quite well in a frame of mind which is ignorant to the 'why' of decisions we are making - but its not really a good habit to have because we are letting our instinctive, and therefore inherently selfish, parts of our brain dictate to the 'u' in you what to do! This means a whole raft of biological, psychological or social 'issues' and concerns can shape our subconscious decision making against the beliefs or decisions of the conscious mind. At least that is how I see it.

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