Just saw the fattest, most inarticulate little 4yr old at Wal-Mart

So im sitting on a bench by the doors at a wal mart (yea i know ”wal mart bad”, free wifi, moving on) and these two women walked by with a little girl who was old enough to walk on her own but couldn't articulate herself yet... im just throwing “4yr old” out there because of how tall she was and coordinated her walking ... so anyway you how know stores (in USA) always have those vending machines you put the quarters in with the candy and little toys (in the plastic bubbles) there at the doors to manipulate children into demanding their parents make one last purchase before leaving?

This fat- and i mean FAT little 4yr old girl ran up to hug the machines and just freaking GRUNTED at them insistently. Did you ever see the Incredible Hulk in the movies? This little girls face was big like the incredible Hulk and she sounded like the Hulk when he crashes through a wall or something and she had a definite idea of what she wanted but not a single real word was spoken that day....and then her walking pie-hole of a mother (i guess shes the mother, she was pretty fat, too.. but maybe “handler” is better word, like an animal at a zoo might get) turned around and said “bluh bluh bluh” to her, completely casual like this is her default response.. the little girl tried to explain herself further, but again, it was all gunts and howls.. and of course the mother just said “bluh bluh bluh” back to her again! I thought “you dumb jerk (i didnt think “jerk” lol but i wont spell it out) “you dumb jerk, you dont say “bluh bluh bluh” to a child whose trying to talk, you TEACH THEM WORDS, this is why shes four and all she cant say one dag-gum word

Then the aunt or i guess the accomplice in this “not-quite-outright-murder of a child by appalling misguidance”, turned and said “you-wanna-eat, you-wanna-eat?” The exact same way you would say to a dog “you-wanna-treat?” or “wanna-go-outside? You know, that voice you do the get a dog excited... and i thought “of course she wants to eat, look at her- and you did it!” and then i wondered “man, how many ways can you set a baby up to hate herself before she even gets to high school?”

Then i remembered posting in the “blame vs accountability” topic and i thought “id like to follow them into the parking lot and hold the mother accountable to the bumper of my pickup truck”...
Only at like 7 or 8 miles an hour: not enough to kill her but just hard enough to make her re-think her life a little bit, maybe. Im trying to word this in a very flippant and— humorously biting way because that helps me displace my genuine resentment at the woman for what shes doing to her kid but really it impacted me quite a bit to see this. I feel so bad for that little hulk-faced girl, and quite angry at her mother.

So my first question is, do you think im being too hard and unfair towards the zoo-handler? Should i check my privilege and lighten up on my “blame”? Or is it perfectly reasonable to kind of want to kick this lady right in her gobber?

PS i dont too harshly judge adults for being big, its a real struggle and it can take years to get it under control... i really truly empathize witht that. What i hate is when parents do this sort of thing to their children.

Change happened for me when I decided to guard my heart - watch what I watched and listened and read. G.I.G.O. Type of things. I began listening to a lot less ( f this - shit on that - hate hate hate ) I just cut it out on my own. The result was for me ( results WILL vary) I didn’t think of these new ways to hate or diss things. In short - what we put in side us will come out. . . Even if we don’t speak it out loud - it may be there. After a while I stopped thinking like that and swearing and getting upset in my heart and mind. Remember - results vary!!! But - if you got questions ask yourself ... how did that get there - track it down and do some soul searching.

My parenting is no where near text book so I won’t and can’t say any parent is good or bad- truthfully - we all do the best sometimes with small means most of the time.

Why blame ? There are people who are grouchy all day at the world - I see em - my family see s em... we see em all day - mehh let em be I say - I dated a girl one time that had to buy her 5 year old a toy every time they went to a store ... every time ... now , my 5 year old boys problem is picking up the toilet seat ... I’ll take that over that any day!
If ya wanna get mad at everything you could sit at a mall all day and just look... or a park or a church or a store or at home. For me - I see things like that and I just count it all joy... I no longer have to date and my children have a Jedi for a father and mother.
Smiley face

(cant use names, I get in trouble)
(also for clarification - this is about ideas not persons. No persons were intended harm in the writing of this note)

person1 - sees something wrong with the world and gets enraged and wants to fix it, even if it takes the bumper of a truck

Person2 - sees something - decides its not their place to judge - refocuses inward and is ok as long as personal life is sound


Which person has the better Jedi Mentality?

So, I don't think you need to lighten up, just don't hold that contempt for the Mother though cause she probably hasn't and won't accept the responsibility of having a child (there are exceptions).

I honestly see similar all the time (not necessarily the same issue, and I work with teens so it is a little different) but I assume I am relatively safe to go out on a limb and say that the child probably has a learning disability of some sort. This said that kind of interaction shows that the parent doesn't really care to try to improve the child's situation. It is infuriating. I actually see that kinda thing left to special ed teachers. The parent can't be bothered to teach the child how to live or how to grow and have a chance at functioning in society. It's honestly sad and kind of sickening. Particularly because there are resources for parents with young children in that situation to help the child develop those skills.

So, I don't know what's going on in that parent's life or what not, sometimes stuff gets hard but it seems to me that when you have a child that child becomes your first responsibility. For some I guess not (or doesn't happen right away) and it's sad when it is a child in that situation. Hopefully, something will happen to brighten that child's future. It's one of the reasons a lot of people get in my line of work. Honestly, reading this type of thing helps me reaffirm jumping into poverty from a pretty private sector gig, to work with teens in these situations in the school system.

Much Love, Peace and Respect,
Kobos

About 15 years ago or so, a relative of mine was getting ready to leave the store. Now this relative has a number of "invisible diseases." At the time, she was still fully mobile, and thus fully capable of driving.

Now, going into the store, she had been harassed because she was using a handicap spot. Someone who was "young" and "healthy" like her shouldn't be using a handicap spot.

Of course, getting a permanent placard for those spots is extremely hard... Fraud is almost non-existent. With the exception of kids borrowing a parent's car and going "oh I can just park there", basically everyone who has a placard or tag and uses these spots has a wholly legitimate reason for doing so.

Fast forward to an hour later, she's leaving the store and her pain levels have spiked. The very reason she had the handicap spot. She loads up her purchases, gets in and then rests her head back for a few minutes.

A number of people passing by saw her and thought something might be wrong. That's a reasonable enough reaction. The problem was that one of them called the cops and refused to leave her alone, saying she was clearly intoxicated or under the influence of some sort of drug. He basically pulled a citizen's arrest until the cops arrived. Long story short, my grandfather had to go pick her up, come pick me up from school, and then return to the store an hour later so that she could drive herself home.


My point is, Kobos is right. You're seeing a fragment of a person's life. You haven't got the slightest clue what's going on and you're passing judgement. Is there fundamentally something wrong there? Yes, clearly. But just like that man who knew nothing about my relative and had no right to take action against her, you really have no right to judge or take action against this individual and her child.

It's justifiable to be angry with social circumstances... obesity, learning difficulties, etc... Those are the things you work to fix. Get involved with local organizations that focus on those sort of issues. But "citizen's justice" like that never works and only causes more harm in the long run.

I see a lot of people that haven't learned to give love. Or how to love, how to show love.
Instead they equal love with stuff, with things, self love or love for others including family, children.
So we have fat adults, fat kids
Cause they sometimes know no other way to say I love you
And no one has told them that love includes the word NO
Love is enougth with a hug, a home, a word.
My sister was huge, her son was
She had nothing and no one growing up so love to her was meals and treats and she died because of illness due to bad diet. (Dumbing it down)
Its sad and while it might disgust people, happens a lot. With food, tech, or drink and drugs.

I was wondering if the child and / or the mother had disabilities.

Such Morality in this place....

One would think with all the learning in this world we as Jedi would be less harsh at the realities of this world.

Yes there are Parents, in some cases ones that should not be or lack the skills of.... That are accountable to the welfare of their children. But In the 20+ years of Nursing I can say that, this is not the majority of the issues. Br. John is correct in asking if there underlying Medical issues and/or Genetic issues. I've seen several different types of Trisomy (Chromosomal issues) babies that due to their conditions have this problem, let alone Thyroid, Adrenal, Diabetes, Autism and so on.

So I ask you this, if it were your Child, would you want someone using the terms here, look upon you?!

It is not within us to Judge without being judged ourselves....

Br. John wrote: I was wondering if the child and / or the mother had disabilities.

Agreed. I've seen that type of dynamic before... It's spirals and brings out the worst in both of them. Really rarely a pretty picture.

Thanks everybody for sharing your thoughts. Elizebeth’s was my favorite post (not that its a contest ) with Kobos next because i agree with you and then Carlos because you reminded me that i also say we sometimes have to know how to keep our peace even in the face of tragedy....and whether i agree or not, i know its a principle to Carlos to always speak a certain way— again i may not agree but i respect having principles.

And Kyrin killed me with the “not saying any names” part - lol - DEAD plus your point sort of overlaps something im gonna say a little further down.

I did consider developmental issues and yea that definitely could be valid. Good call for those of you who brought that up! But the part i feel i didnt convey fully in the first telling is that 1) the girl was trying to talk and the adult seemed both condescending and NOT helpful- like she not teachng or coaching any words while also kind of making fun of the kid for not knowing any. “Bluh bluh bluh” i just had a real... certain kind of feeling in reaction to that.
And the girl didnt want to leave, she was trying to argue or insist or at least explain and instead of talking to her about it aka coaching her OR just telling her “no” and walking her out the door, they instantly started into coaxing her with food.

So if the kid has a developmental issue that deters the speech learning process by some time, or a medical issue that just makes her big, wouldn't you think the adults would supposed to be MORE insistent on coaching the language and also on NOT using food as the immediate bait to control her behavior? Shouldnt they find some other way to get the child to behave?

And am i being mean to the girl? Shes nowhere near to reading anything i write. If i could be in her life i would try REALLY TRY to help her learn something better IF I COULD. And more importantly, Im not the one that turned her into the incredible hulk... her “adults” did that. So we have compassion and empathy for the adults who (i am thinking) actually did real damage to the girl but im a bad guy because i said shes got a big face? Shes got a big face! Its a fact! Its not her fault and i know that- she is a victim here, as i see it and im angry on her behalf.

You know who is going to be mean to her? The kids at school. When she starts liking boys i cant see anything but that its not gonna go over too well for her. The school system probably isnt going to give her a lot of love, either. And then a lifetime of turinng immediately to food to self-sooth? All this because her lazy adults just wanted to shut her up and get her out of the store without causing a scene...

I think its always been that way Ob1Shinobi, and always will be. Nothing anyone can do about it. And so if daft parents want to giggle like lunatics while they stuff their childrens face with synthetic flavored white sugar until their endocrine systems et al develop flaws enough to justify their own resultant morbid obesity to themselves..... then there is nothing anyone can do about it AFAIK. Focus on you mate in this regard, you and yours and anyone who asks for guidance... that is my thought. Judging does incur that risk of not knowing the bigger picture of what is going on, or has gone on, and indeed what might come from, a persons wrong turns in life.

When it comes to parenting, often. You only get to see a glimpse of what's going on as others have pointed out.

Something to consider is also how the parent was raised. We don't usually just make up completely brand new ways to teaching, it's usually an offshoot or a direct response to how they were raised. I can also vouch that when my son was 3 and I was dead exhausted to resorting to mumbled responses, with my son begging to get candy from those very same machines (tip: Children will believe it if you say they're broken).

There are many factors influences that you can not see, and unfortunately being angry about it means very little. Unless you see this family more often and can build a frame of reference to engage the family on an even level, the overall impact is small. The only thing a parent loves more than a child throwing a tantrum in a store is someone yelling them how to parent, but getting to know them to slip in advice is different.

Consider the end result: is the parent more likely to listen to someone who ran them over, or someone who got to know them a little?

...

Humor is an easy way to vent the genuine disgust I have for people who foist unhealthy (in a broad sense) life habits on kids. As much as I know there's aphorisms about walking a mile in their shoes, it's absolutely frustrating to see the Wal Mart type of people throw not only their lives away.

I have no idea what I should do about it, but I'm confronted by poor parenting (and the resultant next generation) more than I'd like. Having special needs might explain the ease of that situation, but doesn't excuse it (and no, I'm not saying that from some lofty, detached pedastal).

You can simultaneously have a sort of abject disgust and empathy

"The Wal-Mart type" reeks of prejudice. I am, (quite possibly), the Wal-Mart type equivalent of my nation. For Germans, Tedi is the hangout I'm thinking - bench outside... the guy who takes parcels for Hermes... Few early morning beers knocking about... I don't have obesity issues (Europeans generally suffer from that less), but I do have issues with being judged based on ... Nothing. No actual real information exchange. Just a look, and a judgement. No conversation to clarify situations or understandings. Just decisions made on the basis that I would rather be outside my house, than inside my house. With people who talk my language(s) than don't. With people who share experiences than don't. A sugar high might be less painful and dangerous than an illegal one, and give some release to the draining tension of daily life on the boundaries of society. I've turned to it plenty of times.

Sure, people could do more to come in from the cold. But a lack of judgement, and in fact a warm welcome when they do is possibly a better way to help than running someone over in a car park, or jokes about the fact we are too stupid and lazy to enter into society... This is distinctly unhelpful behavior if you want people to believe that "society" treats people respectfully, because you know you are a person, it's just that you are being judged as some lesser kind... By someone who knows as much as John Snow. Years of that takes years to heal. Generations of that will take generations. So I emplore that we please start now, and remove "Wal-Mart type" from our vocabularies. - I have my own things I have my prejudices about, so I don't exclude myself from this practice one bit!

Twigga wrote: "The Wal-Mart type" reeks of prejudice. I am, (quite possibly), the Wal-Mart type equivalent of my nation. For Germans, Tedi is the hangout I'm thinking - bench outside... the guy who takes parcels for Hermes... Few early morning beers knocking about... I don't have obesity issues (Europeans generally suffer from that less), but I do have issues with being judged based on ... Nothing. No actual real information exchange. Just a look, and a judgement. No conversation to clarify situations or understandings. Just decisions made on the basis that I would rather be outside my house, than inside my house. With people who talk my language(s) than don't. With people who share experiences than don't. A sugar high might be less painful and dangerous than an illegal one, and give some release to the draining tension of daily life on the boundaries of society. I've turned to it plenty of times.

Sure, people could do more to come in from the cold. But a lack of judgement, and in fact a warm welcome when they do is possibly a better way to help than running someone over in a car park, or jokes about the fact we are too stupid and lazy to enter into society... This is distinctly unhelpful behavior if you want people to believe that "society" treats people respectfully, because you know you are a person, it's just that you are being judged as some lesser kind... By someone who knows as much as John Snow. Years of that takes years to heal. Generations of that will take generations. So I emplore that we please start now, and remove "Wal-Mart type" from our vocabularies. - I have my own things I have my prejudices about, so I don't exclude myself from this practice one bit!

Well said, Twigga. I’m sure others may not agree and believe we may be doing them a “disservice” by not pointing out their stereotypes and other issues they are displaying. To that point I would step in and say something if the person was physically abusing the child or a partner in the store. But that comes under Justice in the 21 Maxims.

The fact that obeisity has become such an epidemic does show that parents are not properly educated or just don’t care. When I was 25 my dad apologized to me one day, out of no where and just randomly. I asked him why he apologized and he said “I knew better. I let you drink all that chocolate milk, all that soda and eat yourself sick and I didn’t do anything but insult you and told you not to do it instead of taking responsibility and stopping you like I should have. For that, I am sorry and please don’t make that same mistake with your kids.” I fit that typical Wal Martian fat dude description but I don’t let that define me. It doesn’t stop me from going into Wal Mart. I look around and see many of the same stereotypes and issues going on but I’ve gone into higher end stores and seen the same thing. A trip to the local mall is just another episode of “What Not to Wear”. In America, Wal Mart has become the everyday scene regardless of what store you are in, at least here and the other city and states I’ve visited, which has been quite a few.

There are many ways to handle those awkward issues, especially when it involves children, that could have been employed in the scenario provided. If it was that concerning I would have went to the women and started a simple conversation by asking if the little girl was still learning to speak. I have deaf people in my family and some family members who are not so polite about it, and yes, one is a mother and daughter and the mother constantly made fun of her daughter when she was growing up. Most people would have looked at the way she treated my cousin as abuse sand there were many times her mother would beat her just because she couldn’t talk correctly. I don’t know if this was the case at Wal Mart but it wouldn’t be our place to step in and “correct” the mother of her friend/partner.

This is a wonderful conversation. Thank you Ob1. I think that anger and disgust can be put to use in a less "violent" way. There may be people in your circle of six (children and adults) who might benefit from what you have discovered here:
1. That you do not like that some children are not coached to learn despite what may be a distinct set of disadvantages
2. That you have the desire, skills, patience required to provide that coaching if the parent(s) will let you
You may never see that young girl and her mother again, but there are plenty of ways to volunteer or work with a similar population who would love your help
https://www.volunteermatch.org/

It's justifiable to be angry with social circumstances... obesity, learning difficulties, etc... Those are the things you work to fix. Get involved with local organizations that focus on those sort of issues. But "citizen's justice" like that never works and only causes more harm in the long run.

First of all - Hey hun, long time no chat.

Secondly....in principle and on a whiteboard, I agree with you - in practice...not so much.

I live in an area where the overall data is...people are rubbish.

Their parents were rubbish, they turned out rubbish, and there is evidence anyone they raise will be rubbish.

It's nice to assess every individual separately and understand that there are all sorts of factors, but (for example) - an area that has consistently high crime (of the overt robbery, assault, etc kind, and the more mundane driving without a licence, and welfare fraud types), poor employment levels, and a high rate of single-teen mother births means there is something "rotten in denmark"

This is where you decide what level of management you want to work at - do you make friends with one person who's circumstances have led them to a pretty average place, and may require assistance to avoid replicating it,

or do you set the whole place on fire and call it a necessary evil for the greater good.



Funny thought though- Watch people with their dogs - you'll quickly identify the ones who put no effort into making their dog's life better and making that dog a better "citizen"

People get upset if you offer to help fix their broken children, but are often actually quite open to assistance with "fixing" their "broken" dog (that they raised badly).