Matriculation in the Order

You know, i like this temple,Hence why i joined, But i have a slight issue.
If someone has already followed a path for most of their adult life,And this path literally mimics what you have as the temples entire motif...How could a person start as a novice,
when they have been entitled with the rank of master already? they can't my friend.
This is why i am only a member and not an initiate...I refuse to have my life's traing undermined just to customize myself to YOUR views of the jedi.But never the less, I will still defend the temple,and jediism for the rest of my days. thanks man for this place.

Jedi Believe
In the Force, and in the inherent worth of all life within it.

In the sanctity of the human person. We oppose the use of torture and cruel or unusual punishment, including the death penalty.

In a society governed by laws grounded in reason and compassion, not in fear or prejudice.

In a society that does not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or circumstances of birth such as gender, ethnicity and national origin.

In the ethic of reciprocity, and how moral concepts are not absolute but vary by culture, religion, and over time.

In the positive influence of spiritual growth and awareness on society.

In the importance of freedom of conscience and self-determination within religious, political and other structures.

In the separation of religion and government and the freedoms of speech, association, and expression.

This is not ours - nor is anything here. All we do is share. There are many parallels in the world and in faith. Take some time to find out what we do here friend. Spend some time in the forums and see what we are all about? We got stuff on discord almost every day, there’s alway live chat and virtual tea and cookies. There’s people here who are actively serving and waiting for questions and to send encouragement here. Sit back in the library and see if we don’t have something you may? Take some time to find and take some time to share.

https://www.templeofthejediorder.org/forum/Introduce-yourself

May the Force continue to be with you friend.

May i suggest...That if someone tries to join the temple,But they make claims that they are no initiate..
Instead of forcing them to take the path that true initiates would take,You should test their knowledge with a series of questions...
According on how they answer,You will know if they speak the truth...And if they do,REWARD them with a rank that matches their knowledge
and wisdom on the subject of spiritual paths...Not everyone who tries to join is an initiate..You being jedi,should know this and keep it in mind to be fair.
But hey,just a suggestion,Unless you guys don't think you are that good at judging characters, Which you are. i meant no disrespect,And i only say" your" ideas because they are presented in a certain manner on "you guys" site,And they are the tools in which you judge to see if anyone is worthy of leveling up in rank.I share many of these ideas,and wish no ill will. But clearly our minds take different roads when it comes to this topic. Thank you for your time.

It seems you underestimate again by suggesting i spend time in the library,Which you said yourself is only shared information,Information that can be found without this site...
If one is already familiar, How can he be made to undermine his training to learn the same but only in "your" method of operation to achieve a rank to match knowledge he already had/has? Again mean no disrespect.

I created a new topic here

I'd like to add that I have joined 3 orders after already attaining the rank of Knight here.

I did not demand the rank of Knight in their Orders. I have started at the beginning.

Each Order has their own flavor. Each Order has things they focus on.

Each has their own statement of beliefs

And most importantly each has their own students.

If you're going to teach them, you'll have to be familiar with their foundation.

To your point, I'm not completely against matriculation.

But if you are worried about being seen as a Novice isn't that a bit concerning

Drak wrote: ...when they have been entitled with the rank of master already? they can't my friend.
.

Nobody here is entitled to the rank of master. It is just a label, and your intellectual value as a human being is not determined by your rank of guest, novice, apprentice, knight, or master.

I agree that it may seem unfair that you have to go through the Initiate Program, and that a "test" of some sort may be better suited to someone who has already trained significantly. But a real master would familiarize themselves with the IP (indeed, they would go through it themselves) because that would be the best way to empathize and connect with future students. I have been studying here at TOTJO for nearly 5 years. If I were to suddenly join another website with an entirely different set of rules and training program, I would go through the training like any novice. The best teachers incorporate themselves any culture which they find themselves in.

We are always in need of noble leadership, so if you are truly a master who has undergone significant training, I encourage you to share those reflections in the community (in general) and the IP (in particular).

Over my… however many years it’s been now, I have seen a lot of people come and tell how they are this and that at different places. And good for them and where they did whatever at.

That said, this is not those places. Even if someone has already read everything in the IDP at some prior point in their life, the IDP is not about the past. The IDP is the Individual Development Program. As living beings we should never stop developing. Doing what is asked of the individual is a part of the IDP as well. If an individual knows it all already, then there is no need for them to be here. If they understand the hero’s journey and the masks that each person wears, then they know there is no “need” to have rank awarded.

There are those that believe completing assignments and learning different things should grant leveling up. I have never prescribed to the Nintendo way of advancement. The person either used the tools presented to grow as a person and we are comfortable with them holding a rank that would represent us publicly, or they did not.

My bro, this temple uses "completing assignments" as a way of ranking up...
Nobody said anything about a "nintendo " ranking system.
I was simply stating and suggesting,That if some one already has the knowledge that they would learn anyhow,Why make them pointlessly run laps? I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers,and can fully appreciate all the hard work that everyone has put in this place to earn they spots,But to be real, i appreciate my training as well and all the years i put into it. on the home page it states.."Whether you want to become a Jedi, are a real Jedi looking for additional training...This does not mean," throw all your spiritual training away,
Just to re learn the same things from our copy and pasted yet slightly modified shared information and creeds..just to be considered part of our temple or represent the temple,Publicly with a rank..." This is the last i will say... I respect all of the jedi in this place for i my self am a jedi,And a follower and child of the FORCE or the universe or how ever one chooses to see it, And i respect the rules,But agree to disagree.

No-one is made to "pointlessly run laps".

All study beyond the IP (the exact "get new members to complete some assignments so you can assess their potential" process you describe) is tailored to the individual.

No Knight or Master feels there is no point in further study, no room for further growth.

All that first paragraph is a nice thought,But if it does not really matter,Why is it a thing,
Why is certain people cut off from certain aspects of the site with out being authorized by "RANK"?

where did you get that? No one is really a master,because it is arrogance to say one has learned all their is about a subject,this is right,But that's not the issue,One never stops learning,But you can't re learn what you already know. Can you teach yourself to walk when you already do? Can you re learn how to ride a bike? unless one has a brain injury,
Nobody can re-learn anything,Just new stuff buddy.

Good for you...I'll line up your parade...But i did not demand anything..
I was simply making a point from another point of view..take it easy...

Drak wrote: where did you get that? No one is really a master,because it is arrogance to say one has learned all their is about a subject,this is right,But that's not the issue,One never stops learning,But you can't re learn what you already know. Can you teach yourself to walk when you already do? Can you re learn how to ride a bike? unless one has a brain injury,
Nobody can re-learn anything,Just new stuff buddy.

Many masters over the years have gone through the IP for a second, and even third time. They are not re-learning it, they are re-reading it with a new perspective. They also do this because it makes them better teachers. Because I am on the IP team, I have read some parts of the IP over 100 times. Every single novice has a different perspective with which they view the IP and each perspective has value. If you are already trained as you claim to be, then I would love to read your perspective about the IP as you complete each lesson. It would have value, it would add to the community. No one is metaphorically re-learning how to walk or ride a bicycle, they are training their minds to think in different perspectives.

If you have already learned everything the IP has to offer, it should be a breeze to go through it again. Even if you don't value the content, maybe a reader would greatly appreciate what you have to say - and you can teach by learning.

IMO I think the sheer fact that you haven’t done our training is exactly the reason for your assessment. Just from reading your post I get the impression that you lack patience, and don’t see the value in the “journey“. We have knights and masters here who redo the IP every few years just to see if, or how much they have changed. Opinions and views change over time. Beliefs change over time. People change over time.

The other point I will make is a simple one. We get new members here every week. It would shock you how many people came here making very close to the exact same argument you make, then as we dig deeper we learn that they are lying. People claiming to be knights and masters else wear don’t realize how interconnected the Jedi community is. We have a guest show up as claim there a master at FA not realizing we have leaders of the different aspects here, and they have never even heard of the person. I’m NOT saying that’s the case with you, or everyone, but it is something we have to keep in mind. It’s not hard to notice that you haven’t said which organization granted you the rank of master. I think that says something as well.

Bottom line I guess is to be a knight or master at TOTJO, you have to complete the TOTJO ip, apprenticeship with a TOTJO knight, and do the training our way. Underhanded comments about our “Cut and paste”doctrine Won’t win you any brownie points here either. It just shows that by TOTJO standards, your not ready to be an apprentice here, let alone a master.

Ps, ending a post with no disrespect intended, does not undo all the disrespect you just dished out.

It amazes me that i have tried to be clear.and state that i was only making a suggestion.
ALL OF YOU seem to have a problem with the idea of maybe a change by suggestion.
With every message i have also stated i meant no disrespect. I have plenty of patience,
if i didn't i would not still be here,reading of of your silly little replies,Speaking to me as if i where just throwing disrespect everywhere. You leave quotes by , Albert Einstein But fail to grasp the simplicity of a suggestion from some one who is new and may not understand the ways of this temple fully..So thanks for your very reductive comment.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein

“Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.”
― Euripides, The Bacchae

Laurence J. Peter
“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”
― Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
Bertrand Russell
“A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.”
― Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

see, now that is reasonable..Thanks for being alright about it.

Why are you so bothered at the thought of having to do a bit more study until you get the rank you think you qualify for? We encourage self reflection for all, novice to master. Why should we give you a rank, knowing nothing about you, something that cannot be resolved by simply asking questions, because behaviour is as important as knowledge. Join in, do some of the IP, show us the Jedi in you.

The suggestion you made is a valid one, one that has been made by countless other people. It’s one that has been thought about and debated on over and over, and the result is what has shaped our rules and policy on this exact topic.

We are far from afraid of change. But I think it’s a smidge “self centered” for you to think that sense you Made the suggestion, and were not changing, that In turn means we are afraid of change. This temple has existed for years, and has been through several changes over time. Your upset that we’re not changing for you on day one? Really?

I’ve said all I need to on this topic, and won’t be addressing it again. If you decide to stick around that would be great, and I would look forward to reading your ip journal. In fact I personally will be your ip sponsor. If you decide not to stay then I’m sorry to see you go.

OOOOOO i made the boss come out to play....you make the most sense, I accept your challenge!!!! so, how does one go about making a journal? also, where do i send these
essays about the lessons? I'll show you all a jedi,even if i have to dance to your tune.
I never meant any disrespect,For real, I was just making a suggestion,But you are right..Some things can't be determined by questions alone,But they can be determined off of answers to questions you give? you see that? You catch that? you kinda contradict but that's okay, I'll play?