The nature of entertainment media

I used to be a big metalhead. I was into things like thrash metal and doom metal. Megadeth was a big one for me. Recently I conducted a purge upon my music collection as I found I was no longer able to compartmentalize music with violent or aggressive lyrics as harmless. Other people may be able to find them harmless, but I feel like they were detritus, polluting my chances for self betterment.

I am still an avid player of video and computer games however. I play indie "art" titles, but also some of the top-tier franchises as well. This troubles me, as many are violent/aggressive. I've been a fan of the Assassin's Creed series for some time, and I know that you cant harm pixels or polygons, but I have the same concerns, about whether such games are really harmful to the self.

There's a wonderful quote from Dragon Age: Origins that says that "Evil doesn't worry about being good" (meaning that the very fact of showing concern for such things proves that you are not lost to the dark side), however I do question my motivations for playing such games. If I wish to cultivate peace and tranquility, why am I drawn to games that are often centered around visceral conflict?

I suppose it's more a question I should be asking myself. I was just wondering if anyone else has grappled with the same dilemma.

I'm a metalhead... I have been since a teenager, I'm also a gamer.

I am not a violent person, and I don't believe music or gaming has ever inspired me to be so. I have no doubt that some people 'get lost' in the violence of a video game or an album, it's inevitable... but I generally think that people like that are probably going to get that whatever they're into. If not from entertainment media, then the news, or books etc. We cannot avoid being influenced by our environment, even a little. I tend to think that the people who are influenced by the violence in games and music are the ones that go searching for them for that exact reason. A symptom instead of the source. Sometimes you need an outlet for the things you're feeling that you can't act upon.

The only game I have ever questioned (and incidentally one I never played) was the Call of Duty where one had the ability to murder lots of innocent civilians. But saying that my fiance played it, and indeed plays many war games, and he is neither heartless nor violent.

It's like anything... you have to look at what something is doing to you, the same as you do with food, or alcohol, or gambling.

I've found that unless some form of entertainment media (like death metal or violent video games) leads one to behave wrongly, in a way that hurts others, it's hard to take too much issue with it. Somehow I grew up playing really violent video games - for example, I'm 25 and played a lot of Mortal Kombat 3 when it was new (in 1996-ish), so you do the math. And yet I've never been a violent person or drawn to violence. In fact I'm a really ardent pacifist. But like you, I have asked myself the question: does it conflict with self-improvement?

I don't know if I have an answer yet myself. I do know that, in general, I've kind of eschewed more violent video games as I've gotten older, but I still like some pretty dark and morbid music, for instance. It's not what I listen to most, but it's there and some days I feel like listening to really grim industrial metal or whatever. It doesn't always reflect my mood, either. It just is.

I find that, on the other side of the coin, playing "casual" relaxing games like Animal Crossing (which is, at present, basically the only video game I play) doesn't necessarily cause me to become more relaxed, even if I find it enjoyable. It has the same effect on me as a game of Halo where I kill a bunch of aliens and paint the ground with their fluorescent guts - nothing. It's entertainment, not life-altering. The same goes for all the ambient music I have. I like it, but it doesn't calm me down as much as I'd like.

But the concerns are still present. I generally try to steer myself toward entertainment/media that cultivates peace and tranquility, but I'm not sure yet if entertainment in general affects me that profoundly. There are cases where I know certain stories, for example, have affected me for the better, but in my case I feel like the jury is out on video games and (most) music.

Clearly, there is something about the type of music and games you play (or played in the past) that are a problem for you, and that's worth taking a serious look at. The truth may be that certain gaming or listening choices aren't beneficial for you or complementary to your personal outlook (spiritual or otherwise).

It comes down to individual perspective and your mindset. If you believe particular music or gaming experiences are affecting you negatively then that is the reality of the matter. Making a decision to move away from those forms of art/media, or at least pausing to examine your related thoughts and feelings honestly, may be what's best for you at this time (and may have been necessary in your past).

As Edan suggested, there are those of us who feel differently and don't face the same dilemmas that you are working through. My favorite genre in gaming is horror and I'm an avid listener of industrial music - yet, I am a positive and loving person and think I'm fairly well-balanced. Like Edan, I don't feel that 'entertainment media' has ever been the source of problems for me personally, but (again) that doesn't mean it isn't or hasn't been a problem for you, and it's admirable that you're giving that proper attention.

seperate yourself from any kind of unecessary negativity which affects you

real life is violent and tragic enough for anybody

do what you feel is correct

If you look real close, you'll notice that some of the most violent people listen to the most mellow/happy music... some of the most mellow, thoughtful people listen to some of the deepest heaviest music. You might also notice that the latter also tend to have a more relatable sense of humor as well.

Why is this?

Metal for example helps us vent our aggression through creative artistic means so that it's less likely to build up and come out at others in the world.

Proteus wrote: Metal for example helps us vent our aggression through creative artistic means so that it's less likely to build up and come out at others in the world.

Then I suppose the real issue at the heart of my question is, what are the sources/root causes of any aggression that I may feel the need to vent in the first place. And also to avoid such activity in the absence of aggression needing venting, as a challenging struggle might very well serve to disturb peaceful waters, raise cortisol levels, and have negative impact on my health. Thanks for all your insights.

I believe also I have a strong internal need for "justice" from my youth. Perhaps what I feel compelled to engage in with these games is more a sort of systematic slaying of my own internal demons, mentally mapped onto characters in this interactive mythology if you will. Something to meditate on at least.

i grew up playing violent games...they were my outlet...it's better i unleash my fury in a game rather than in real life...i've seen what i can do when i unleash it in real life....it's better for all if i stick to unleashing it in a game....i don't believe violent forms of entertainment cause violent behavior...the behavior is either there or it isn't...i know plenty of kids whose parents forbid them to play even remotely aggressive games and the kids much more prone to outbursts...my nephew plays tons of violent games, he grew up watching horror movies and violent movies...and he's one of the kindest kids i know...

CryojenX wrote: I found I was no longer able to compartmentalize music with violent or aggressive lyrics as harmless.

This may be the crux of the issue. If one can listen/play a certain thing and separate this thing from reality/something else then of course they will be able to do this thing without there being a cross-genre negative impact. If one finds it difficult to compartmentalise two things from each other then they will both interact and perhaps be at odds.

Maybe an ability to compartmentalise is a skill, or an innate ability, or a mix of both, but if one can one can and if one can't one can't. And if one can or one can't one should or shouldn't listen/play/watch/think two different things which are in such stark opposition to each other - unless this was one's goal all along.

Know your limits, acting accordingly and responsibly, no one should fault another for doing this whether they are able to compartmentalise or not.

Proteus wrote: If you look real close, you'll notice that some of the most violent people listen to the most mellow/happy music...

:whistle:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64hAcYAZK3s

Akkarin wrote:

CryojenX wrote: I found I was no longer able to compartmentalize music with violent or aggressive lyrics as harmless.

This may be the crux of the issue. If one can listen/play a certain thing and separate this thing from reality/something else then of course they will be able to do this thing without there being a cross-genre negative impact. If one finds it difficult to compartmentalise two things from each other then they will both interact and perhaps be at odds.

Maybe an ability to compartmentalise is a skill, or an innate ability, or a mix of both, but if one can one can and if one can't one can't. And if one can or one can't one should or shouldn't listen/play/watch/think two different things which are in such stark opposition to each other - unless this was one's goal all along.

I believe I have figured out part of my dilemma. I think that perhaps it is not so much an inability to compartmentalize, but rather a personal question of why I am consuming entertainment that requires such compartmentalization to begin with. Rather than mindlessly thrashing to Megadeth, I could be both musically and intellectually stimulated by the deep complexities of bands such as Dream Theater (whom I prefer anyway).

It's kind of funny looking back on this thread and seeing how concerned I got over some metal and Assassin's Creed. I know these things serve as a healthy outlet for me. The real problem I was having was one of balance, I was listening ONLY to dark/heavy music or playing "mature" games in order to prove to myself that I was a hardcore metalhead. It's SO silly, and over the months since joining the Temple, I avoided those things, but I've realized this too is an unhealthy extreme. Now I get the whole balance thing. Boy do i feel silly. :blush:

If I wish to cultivate peace and tranquility, why am I drawn to games that are often centered around visceral conflict?


This is a wonderful question. and I like the quote about evil does not worry about being good.

As lightside good jedi, I feel that one of our requirements is self analysis and evaluation. I have to check in with myself constantly to make sure that what I am doing is creative and accurate in the moment. Am I allowing clarity to come into the situation or am I creating "unnecessary" drama? I have learned to surrender to the way of the Force in my life. When I come to questions like this, I like to give them up to spirit or to the Force, I let them go, and I wait for a feeling swell in my heart that reveals the insight I need to make the accurate choice.

In the end, I feel its all about the intention and perspective one does these things with. Are you doing it in secret or publicly? Are you able to talk to people about what you are doing or do you hide it from people? Is this a guilty pleasure that fosters your darkside or does it generate a feeling of lightness in your heart?

I know that I feel calmer when listening to metal music. I can get agitated listening to classical or "new age" music. The calmness unsettles me. The chaos of the metal allows me to rest. I feel that is because I do well in chaos and conflict. I do not like interpersonal conflict like arguing among friends. I am drawn to accidents, emergencies or intensity. I loved living in India and Nepal. I actually found "peace" in the hustle of those places. As a Medical first responder, I have to step into some nasty scenes. I have to be calm cool and collected dealing with screaming and blood. I enjoy the calm I feel in the storm.

How do you feel when you play these games or listen to this music, now?
What is your inner purpose for playing these games?

I play video goes for virtual combat training. Video games can be my "dojo". I can also expose myself to things that I would normally not be able to experience like a Zombie horde. How would I act if a real horde came at me? I have no real idea but I can simulate it in the game. When I play these games, I do my best to avoid the adrenaline and stress response. I do my best to meditate, lower my heart rate and breath deeply. I use these games to practice my Jedi skills in ways that I can't in reality.

also I enjoy connecting with my friends who have also played the game. it becomes a bonding experience.

Now I admit some of the story lines in Skyrim challenged me. I avoided them or I was "shocked" by them. I am amazed some of the places this game was permitted to go. I also felt that there was more evil than good.

I also find it interesting in every Jedi/Star Wars game I have very played forces the player into the depths of the Darkside. There seems to be no way around it. The player has to enter the Sith Academy or do some dark deed in order to get to the next level. I wonder why that is? But I notice that there is no mandatory Light actions required by the game for success? Why do these games only push people into experiences the darkness and not the light? Basically, I have found that in SW games, a person has to touch into the darkness to complete the game.

So in the end, I honor you for asking these questions and exploring these types of things. I feel that is what makes a Jedi - self examination.

Everything has its place. I love destroying a heavy bag to the 'soothing strains ' of slipknot, or similar. Usually slipknot tho. Angries up the blood read good. But then we usually have a semiformal dinner if my family is all eating together at the same time, almost always to Bach or Beethoven. Can you imagine juxtaposing the two? Lol

I play a lot of halo also. 49,000 kills, 27,000 deaths, level 130 spartan in 4. It's almost meditative by now, thoughtless. Motions I've gone thru a million times before. It's an outlet for aggression as well.

baru wrote: I also find it interesting in every Jedi/Star Wars game I have very played forces the player into the depths of the Darkside. There seems to be no way around it. The player has to enter the Sith Academy or do some dark deed in order to get to the next level. I wonder why that is? But I notice that there is no mandatory Light actions required by the game for success? Why do these games only push people into experiences the darkness and not the light? Basically, I have found that in SW games, a person has to touch into the darkness to complete the game.

Perhaps it is an implicit recognition of the dark side as being an integral part of the whole of light and dark. A "virtual cave of fear" if you will; a trip into the belly of the beast.

CryojenX wrote: It's kind of funny looking back on this thread and seeing how concerned I got over some metal and Assassin's Creed. I know these things serve as a healthy outlet for me. The real problem I was having was one of balance, I was listening ONLY to dark/heavy music or playing "mature" games in order to prove to myself that I was a hardcore metalhead. It's SO silly, and over the months since joining the Temple, I avoided those things, but I've realized this too is an unhealthy extreme. Now I get the whole balance thing. Boy do i feel silly. :blush:

I used to be a metalhead. I still listen to a lot of metal, I just don't identify with the subculture. I was really into black metal, but I got tired of it after I became a Christian, because I didn't feel like listening to a genre that is at least 75% dedicated to bashing Christianity. I don't like the metal culture, either. It advocates a self-destructive lifestyle.

Metal is not inherently negative, especially not Megadeth. Dave is one of the few musicians alive today who is an alright person. If more extreme metal is too negative for you, try power metal. I suggest Power Quest, DragonForce (the first four albums, at least), Sabaton, and anything else those bands might lead you to.

As for the video games: I don't mean to be pushy or preachy, but I have nothing good to say about them. I decided at the beginning of my adult life to live without video games, TV, and films, and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. My advice to you would be to throw out all your games, but I can understand if you see that as unreasonable.

Star Forge wrote: I used to be a metalhead. I still listen to a lot of metal, I just don't identify with the subculture. I was really into black metal, but I got tired of it after I became a Christian, because I didn't feel like listening to a genre that is at least 75% dedicated to bashing Christianity. I don't like the metal culture, either. It advocates a self-destructive lifestyle.

I know what you mean, part of my problem was that I wanted to belong to a community, I like a lot of metal, and so tried to fit into the subculture, as it's supposedly the place for the misfits. But while I love some metal, the culture is simply not who I am. This is one reason I puled away from the music for a while: I had completely oversaturated myself to the point of spiritual exhaustion. I do like me some indie pop and folk music, yknow?

Star Forge wrote: As for the video games: I don't mean to be pushy or preachy, but I have nothing good to say about them. I decided at the beginning of my adult life to live without video games, TV, and films, and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. My advice to you would be to throw out all your games, but I can understand if you see that as unreasonable.

To tell the truth, in the past I have done exactly that, thrown out all my games. Unfortunately with nothing to fall back on it left a vacuum in my life and never lasted for long. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the medium, or film for that matter; just as with music, one needs to simply be selective. I like films and games that show me life from a perspective I might not ordinarily have, to help me gain a better insight of universal truths. Believe it or not, there are more games out there with deep philosophical, emotional, and moral themes than you might imagine.

CryojenX wrote:

Star Forge wrote: I used to be a metalhead. I still listen to a lot of metal, I just don't identify with the subculture. I was really into black metal, but I got tired of it after I became a Christian, because I didn't feel like listening to a genre that is at least 75% dedicated to bashing Christianity. I don't like the metal culture, either. It advocates a self-destructive lifestyle.

I know what you mean, part of my problem was that I wanted to belong to a community, I like a lot of metal, and so tried to fit into the subculture, as it's supposedly the place for the misfits. But while I love some metal, the culture is simply not who I am. This is one reason I puled away from the music for a while: I had completely oversaturated myself to the point of spiritual exhaustion. I do like me some indie pop and folk music, yknow?

Star Forge wrote: As for the video games: I don't mean to be pushy or preachy, but I have nothing good to say about them. I decided at the beginning of my adult life to live without video games, TV, and films, and it's one of the best decisions I've ever made. My advice to you would be to throw out all your games, but I can understand if you see that as unreasonable.

To tell the truth, in the past I have done exactly that, thrown out all my games. Unfortunately with nothing to fall back on it left a vacuum in my life and never lasted for long. I don't see anything inherently wrong with the medium, or film for that matter; just as with music, one needs to simply be selective. I like films and games that show me life from a perspective I might not ordinarily have, to help me gain a better insight of universal truths. Believe it or not, there are more games out there with deep philosophical, emotional, and moral themes than you might imagine.

Philo Farnsworth, the dude who invented TV, always thought that his invention was at best useless and at worst harmful. When he saw the moon landing, he was relieved, as he felt that his invention was validated, and had been used as a force for good, at least in that one instance.

That being said, there is one singular game that I have concluded is video gaming's "moon landing." Otherwise, I have a uniformly negative view on gaming (though I despise film the most). I won't name it publicly here. I am writing a longass treatise on the game currently. It is a project I have been planning for since 2009. I may or may not make it available here once it is done.

I've introduced gaming back into my life, and have been able to keep within the strict time limitations I've set for play time, however I have noticed that the mindfulness I work so hard at practicing with my meditation seems to go completely bye-bye when playing the game. Afterwards, I'm satisfied that I've had some fun, but also a bit disappointed with myself for effectively reversing the fruits of the day's meditation. Has anyone overcome this hurdle, can one maintain mindfulness while playing an action/adventure game, or are the demands of the game and the goals of mindfulness at odds with each other and mutually exclusive?

> Has anyone overcome this hurdle, can one maintain mindfulness while playing an action/adventure game, or are the demands of the game and the goals of mindfulness at odds with each other and mutually exclusive?

Good questions to ask. Anything, even playing video-games, can be a form of meditation. So, I believe that a person can be mindful while enjoying video-games. However, the reason we play video-games is the same as why we read fictional books and watch movies: we don't want to be alone with ourselves. This is why you see so many people with their eyes glued to their cellphones or televisions. We always have to be distracted by something.

I think it's important for people to realize that their life is much more important and interesting than what's being displayed on the screen in front of them.