Apprentice Arisaigs article on Grey Jedi

“We’ve all seen them about. They come in saying they’re unique because of their Path, and that they do not fear the dark like the Jedi but are more restrained than the Sith. I am talking, of course, of those that proclaim themselves to be Grey Jedi”

: Arisaig


Interesting article on the Grey Jedi by Arisaig

Thank you Marta, was about to post this myself. What do we think about this? I used to hold pretty closely to this belief myself, but age (or experience for a lack of a better term) has changed my view to a certain extant...

I agree with quite a bit of what has been written here by my young apprentice, but still, there are parts i can also see myself disagreeing with all the same. In this i am attempting to remain objective, but it does come off as, well, rather judgmental somewhat in his well written observation. And yet, in several instances, he has a valid point...

I could easily be called a "Grey Jedi, I am a student of the force, I try to be compassionate, i "try" to be non judgmental, ( i did say try, please dont pick the shit out of this or other posts please & thank you in advance) in short im a work in progress. I dont honestly subscribe to the Jedi code as something that needs to be followed or adhered to...

So, if i don't adhere to the Jedi Code, does that make me a Jedi, why then should i bother with the Jedi label at all?

I also could very well fall within the lines of Shadow, or even Sith. The problem here is labels. By attempting to define others (or ourselves) what is, or is not, instead of simply observing and acting in accordance with the force, or our will, we attempt to place ourselves (and each other) in a box. Life is not so simple, no mattter how much we may wish to be so. We get so attached to the masks we're wearing, we soon loose sight of why we picked them up to begin with, and forget it's a mask. Something something Watts, something something Shiva....

The focus should not be on whether someone else is "Jedi" or not, but on ourselves, and our own individual growth...

Who am i, that i can point to someone else and say there path, or how they choose to define themselves is not high enough to meet the supposed watermark? Again, in doing so, i have taken the focus off of myself, and placed it on others. And i get it, "think lightly of yourself" and all that. You can easily turn that around into any argument to serve whatever point you want...

Am i Jedi, am i Sith? Am i a Grey?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZ3wWisRtTA

Am i Jedi, am i Sith? Am i a Grey?

Personally i dont believe in colour coding , as i see it these day we are all of that , i see Jedi in my self , i see Sith in myself and a shade of Doubt if you will and that i would call Grey , if Ari is making the point that the Grey path is the easy part then i must really point out that Doubt is a Path killer , and therefore the most difficult path , and one that you might regret , or will regret.

A lot of emphasis is pointed at "being oneself" and "being genuine" as for the relationship with the Path , i would say , the more we learn about ourself , the more questions we have. We should not be so afraid of being confused, after all with this new internet age we get to take in so much information. A lot of that is distracting us from taking a good look at ourselves and getting to know ourselves.

It really does not matter , Jedi , Sith , Grey , as long as you can stand up for what you believe in and are honestly trying to make the most of what you get in life. Excellence in all things goes for all 3 , even if it seems the Greys are taking an easy way out , i really dont believe they are ...

There is no doubt I am sith - as the saying goes with my hand over my mouth muffled “ I was born in the darkness” smileyface.
There can come a place where we realize what we are by definition. Our definition. Some one else’s definition. Every one else’s definition. That’s fine - call yourself what you like. You have that right. Act how you like. You have that right. Represent any label you choose and see fit ! You are human and have that right. If it helps this discussion any- who we are CAN change over time and for some of us it has and will. There is a very real quest for wisdom and knowledge here and as we receive it we can expect ourselfs to grow with the finding of these things. One of the hardest things I find in a Jedi path is the paradox of choice or the ability to be the individual. The human potential. The freedoms to choose what you wanna be. It’s the same in the human world ... you know - off the line - ( offline - that was a joke)
There can come a time when you choose to take all the labels you can identify with and set them all on your table . Example - I am sith light soldier dad father best friend chief hobbit lover reader hobbit Trekkie narnian nerd jock fighter brother knight Clergy time keeper mechanic witch fire fighter rescue swimmer medic runner -my personal list is extensive but you get the idea. All these things and I am them at ceartain times in my life. The balance so to speak. I call on ol sgt Martinez when I need him or even medic Martinez when my family has a need or even fire fighter when the wife catches the kitchen on fire trying to make Jell-O shots ... and at any time I only have to remind myself I am the forgiving father I never had.. life is full. To be you in its entirety - to constantly be adding new “yous” by learning and adding taking away subtracting this one and that one - can be a fun and cultivating thing that can benifit us all a bit more.
My encouragment - identify and step through it - add it to the rest of who you are. Really - no one person is just one person. That’s the joy of syncretism and Jedinism - the labels that removes labels I often say... or adds ... your choice. Come to grips with who you are- find out - identify - then - do somthimg with all that. Grow this one and that one. Apply them, you won’t regret it !
this is just encouragment and in no way telling any one what to do. Make desisions for yourself. Don’t. I hope this helps to see how others are doing things and maybe be some kind of help . May the Force you seek find you !’

I like a lot of what the article has to say, and while that statement implies that there are also aspects of it I like less, I do want to first stress why I enjoyed it. Personally, I think that people come to a path like Jediism (or whatever moniker you want to attach to it) because they are lost in some other aspect of their life. They've often come from powerful backgrounds like insular religions or military organizations, or they've experienced various levels of trauma -- sometimes all of these. Other times, Jedi arrive here because they've been searching for something that fills the longing for connection that, I think, all sane humans share; for whatever reasons, personal or social, the seeker isn't able to find that sense of connection in the outside world but when they arrive here things just... click. Loss, pain, confusion... these are the things that have led the bulk of the Jedi I've talked with to the TotJO (and other Jedi paths).

The point is: we're not plucked as toddlers and sequestered away for indoctrination into an order of monastic wizard-samurai. We're real people coming into contact with our own needs and emotions and, for whatever reason, finding something here that satiates at least a little of our longing. We arrive here with baggage, almost always. So that's one of the things I enjoyed most about this: the acceptance of baggage as part of what it means to be a Jedi. That the point isn't to pretend we have everything together or are in some way superior because we're here practicing what, to most of the world, is a joke philosophy/religion. But, being a Jedi means looking at your baggage and saying "that's not all I am. I get to choose how I view myself, and the code tells me that I should base my self-judgements off of my intentions and the results of my actions. This Path tells me that I can become better than the person I was without having to hate the person I was; I am a continual being and this Path is progress." Something like that, anyway.

And so I think people who proclaim their "non-Jedi-ness" are mostly missing the point. That to be a real Jedi isn't to hide from emotions and passions, or to suppress them, but to live with them in a manner harmonious enough to allow the individual to feel good about their life while at the same time serving the good in the world as best as they are able. Like this article says, that's a tall order; it's not meant to be easy. It means recognizing that the "individual" is just another sum of various interactions and that choosing to be a Jedi is simply the choice to take a more active role in self-exploration, by choosing to accept a specific set of codes and general beliefs that one tries to embody (yeah, there's that word again, I hear ya).

This is, likewise, why I've always felt that things like "Sith" are... silly. What I liked about this article on that front was that it pointed out a different aspect than what I'd been looking at before. People are trying to define themselves through identification with a term, perhaps one they feel encapsulates their concept of reality more clearly. That's where things begin to break down of course because... well, that's just what anyone is doing. For some reason, one just feels petulant while the other feels hopeful. Dunno, I'll let others philosophize in that area, it's really no different than a thousand other conversations of identity, group dynamics, and the power of belief, just the names of the beliefs have changed. The point is, as I see it, being a Jedi means saying "for at least a while, I am going to relinquish some of my autonomy in order to see if this practice and experience makes me a happier person." We give up our autonomy a million times every day, this isn't any different. People who claim the title gray are, 7 out of 10, fighting that reality; they want their cake while they eat it. Nothing really wrong with that, it's a very human desire, but it also doesn't make one worthy of calling themself "Jedi."

Now, one point in the article that did bother me a little is exemplified by this: " If we fail, we have only ourselves to blame." I was reading the article and feeling a sense of... paternalism? Perhaps? In the Catholic sense, i.e. "we're all flawed and sinful creatures who must eternally strive to be better than we were," and I don't know if I agree with that. At the same time that I believe it can be a positive thing to look at yourself and try to walk the path of betterment, I also believe that doing so merely because you want to escape those "bad" things about yourself isn't what being a Jedi is about. Betterment? Yes. But guilt-free betterment, not the sort of betterment that comes from negative reinforcement or negative thoughts about oneself. Maybe this is just me quibbling about things...

So that's one of the things I enjoyed most about this: the acceptance of baggage as part of what it means to be a Jedi.



Good stuff - I may use that ! With your consent !

I liked it a lot. I agree with the two thesis's that Jedi represent an ideal which we can never fully achieve, but that we are enriched (and enrich some part of the world) by pursuing, and that there is a huge tendency among people to adopt the philosophy that fits to who they already are, so that they can special or wise or enlightened or whatever it is theyd like to think they are, without having to change or work hard or risk failure or face their own shortcomings. To my way of thinking, these are obviously true.

I had my own version of one of the reactions that Lockey referenced: If we are flawed, how so, exactly? Who is to say we are flawed? What is the standard in comparison to which we are flawed, where does that standard come from, and why should it be the standard that we measure ourselves by?

Im not disagreeing with the premise that we are flawed (i agree with the premise) im asking if the author can back it up. Support it with a rational explanation. Or if nothing else, suggesting that he begin looking into one.

OB1Shinobi wrote: If we are flawed, how so, exactly? Who is to say we are flawed? What is the standard in comparison to which we are flawed, where does that standard come from, and why should it be the standard that we measure ourselves by?

We are flawed in the way we see. We are the ones that say we are flawed, subconsciously. I know I am flawed, and I hold myself accountable to those flaws. I recognise them and learn to grow from them. I know I slip up, but I don't let a mistake define me. I blame myself once, and then move on, being better than my previous self a minute ago, and hour ago, a day ago.

I'm not saying to live up to another person's expectations, or even a group's expectations of what you should be. But we all know our flaws. We know our character flaws, our ticks, our triggers that make us stumble. We also know what we want to become. It is in recognising that we are not yet what we wish to be, and holding oneself towards the pursuit of what we want to be, even if unreachable, that makes us better people for the struggle.

To be flawed Or to not to be flawed hu ... that’s the question. Lol
As a “ seasoned” or even as an “old “ Jedi myself, I can say I wrestled with this very thing. What do I call it ? The “ it “I am referring to is my actions. Some of us - not all of us - want to use some label to better understand things more and that’s not a bad thing at all. I myself have come to the point in my own walk and practice that I no longer label things or at least try to label it as “simple” as possible for me. Example - blind hate - if you add hate for no real reason but simply to hate - you don’t even know the other persons name yet - there it is ... blind hate. Not at all saying that for blame or anything to any one here - just using it as an example of how “simplifying“ things can look for me in my practice. Religion race color sex creed faith - all these can include blind hate.

Now... I came to grips with my own flawed or not flawed - sin or not sin - right or wrong - good bad - light dark - grey —- so on and so forth. Every person will make their own choices and I definitely encourage every one to do that for themselves. The sooner the better . Know your self and define yourself . Do it - label
Your self - color your self - make a choice...
Then - live it - try it- you never know till you give it a go. Find it - test it -
I tell you what I found out for myself. Your results will vary - they have to.
All the things I used to label - got me here - filled my heart with what’s in it now - my learn was made by my path - who I am right now is a direct result of all that. No blame - just pure acceptance . As a human being, the hardest thing I found is acceptance of my entire being - so I said - I am... I am alll the things I am. One of our teachings #4 is Jedi are wary of attachments, both material and personal. One of the most freeing attachment for me was blame. It helped me Sooo much . Identify and don’t blame. Blaming kept me from moving forward. For some reason, when I identified, I wanted to blame. Automatically. That added insult to old injuries within myself. So I no longer use the word “flaw”, am I flawed or am I not flawed. The more simple question to myself no long includes that blaming word, it is simply “Am I?” “Am I Not?”.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I see things this way, I see things that...and I am grateful that I can see. I am grateful I can make my own choices. I am grateful that I don’t have to judge myself for liking ice cream, or only liking the Proverbs, or only parts of Torah, or bits and pieces of this or that.
I’m a Jedi, I’m allowed. And so are you. Judgement comes from others, seeing our path like that, seeing our faith like that, like the Syncretic Symphony each of us is; can greatly change your heart and your mind.
So like Proteus was nudging, what is “flawed”?
Who really has the right to call an individual, “flawed”? Not me.

I hope this helps, really I do.
And thank you for this post.
Thank you for the wonderful ness that is you, every one of you.
Without you, there would be no “Us”.

I find the whole thing a bit… condescending. But really, that seems the attitude of the whole community towards anyone who utters the word "grey". The facebook group, here, I'm sure other sites if I decided to go through each one. There just seems to be a lot of animosity towards anyone who identifies with that Jedi subset. Weirdly, moreso than those who identify with the Sith subset.

The article tosses around the ideas that "Grey want to stand out but end up blending in", failure, lazy, "they can say they achieved what others spend a lifetime working towards", "Grey path is a lie they tell themselves", "losing their way", "making excuses", "alternate path that allows for shortcomings", etc.

Overall, it carries a pretty negative connotation that smells strongly of the superiority complex involved with the "Us vs Them" mentality.

I wonder about the ability of a person who hasn't traveled a certain path to be capable of judging it. I mean, judgement can certainly be leveled from an outside perspective, but is that ever actually accurate? Someone who has never been a police officer can never judge, with the weight of experience(which is the foundation of true knowledge, IMO), behind their judgement. Likewise for any football fans judging the players and saying "well they should…"
And likewise for a Jedi who hasn't traveled the Grey Jedi path judging that path. Or a Grey who hasn't traveled the Jedi path judging that path. Without the experience, the knowledge and thus the judgements are hollow. Penguins may as well hypothesize nuclear physics.

I also find a particular irony in closing out that flavor of article with a "This is not an attack, but a wakeup call". Interestingly, It feels like something a missionary would say to a nonbeliever. "We are right and you are wrong. We just want to save you. Wake up and accept *our* truth." Not approving of a path… Not agreeing with a path… Does not mean the path is wrong or wrong for those on it. And as much as I enjoy(#sarcasm) the Jehovah witnesses coming by, or the Christians constantly trying to save my soul that they're certain is lost, I'm sure those who follow the Grey enjoy these types of articles, with their negativity, judging, and attempts to wake them, even less.

---

I'm not saying to live up to another person's expectations, or even a group's expectations of what you should be.But we all know our flaws. We know our character flaws, our ticks, our triggers that make us stumble. We also know what we want to become. It is in recognising that we are not yet what we wish to be, and holding oneself towards the pursuit of what we want to be, even if unreachable, that makes us better people for the struggle.

I'm not sure if you can see it, but you are. You are taking your experience of the Jedi path and with the aid of quite a few metaphors telling others on their own path that they need to follow your expectations.
Having read through the Grey Code(admittedly, that is *all* I have done- a quick read through) I see nothing about not recognizing or improving on flaws. I'm curious on why that seems to be your defining point of the difference between the two subsets?

I agree with the article. And I love over thinking (or narrow thinking) this sort of stuff, so if I was to ramble a post on it...... I think there is a delicate fulcrum at work throughout 'Jedi', which trips people over in how I'd view the most effective path - being its connection and involvement of 'feeling'. For it's not quite a stoic path, but then its also not a libertine path. So its easy to go and call it a middle way, grey blend, and 'feel' correct in doing so. The fiction is replete with tasty distractions IMO, and the tools along the path do have benefit enough to distract as the path on their own also....

... and I don't mean to say its wrong. We each make it our own, and hopefully that involves a process of refining that understanding for progress. The fiction was so popular, being a dramatic representation of circumstances in some nature of benefits having radical influence and therefore becoming pivotal. Things like spatial processing, novel logical constructs, physical dexterity, technological prowess all come into play in that context of their path - which is relatable to us in the audience, but explained by some bizarre simplification (the Force) 'as' path. Obviously the path for us then can seen not as pretending to be like them, but the nature of focus and application of its results, or even how we see ourselves somewhere between that fictional idealism and our efforts. I think its the wrong approach to use the fiction this way, but I think I can understand it happens.

For example when the Ben Kenobi character talks about letting go of your conscious self and trusting your instincts -- its easy to see that as a green light to be emotional, but to me its use/application in the fiction was very specific to the situation which allowed a short distance, short duration, acceleration of body benefiting specifically from connection to the subconscious over the conscious. The key essence of the teaching here being the relationship between the various parts of the mind and body to best work in the environment and circumstance one finds themselves. IMO, because we know the subconscious instinctual reaction will be quicker in a zapping droid defence exercise then trying to watch and then process and then move under logical thinking. Not to suggest 'forms' are without benefit, as the real benefits of the integration of systems and environment is that the integration gives broader capabilities which can serve more diverse circumstance better... but a sip of coffee does not make a coffee expert, and so the concept of mastery might just require ground passed under ones feet in application of something, ie experienced. But 'experienced in what' is another question, perhaps the most true answer to that is of self.

That said, its easier to say your grey sometimes.... and I have, while at the same time saying I think its a defunct concept. As communication is about understanding and complex things often simply cannot be communicated in the circumstance. The reality is they are the most readily adopted and widely understood, things like; compassion v evil, sensitive v dull, weak v strong, logical v emotional, organized v disorganized, communal v individual, hot v cold hehe etc or heaven forbid good v bad - all valid things in their own right but not really entirely relevant (except the first one) nor even necessarily accurate, to my Jedi path or how I see the best use of the theme. To me its a bit like climbing a lighthouse and calling yourself a step, staircase or ladder just because its what your dealing with and solving. It might even be your focus, and superficial intention of being (or else), but probably not the essence of the wider activities intention. So to me its better to define yourself by your goal, then define yourself by your stage of progress to it. The later is what ranks are useful for in a structure to assist progress, like the ladder in the lighthouse... just imagine how much easier it will be to climb without that big lightbulb on your back (at the risk of forgetting that your climbing to change the bulb). But a person might have real practical definitions that they use which best serve the label of grey, I guess again it comes down to that pesky individual nature which at least serves as a platform for connecting to discover.

TLDR that was my cull'd version

Kehta Neir wrote: Having read through the Grey Code(admittedly, that is *all* I have done- a quick read through) I see nothing about not recognizing or improving on flaws. I'm curious on why that seems to be your defining point of the difference between the two subsets?

I think the thing to take into mind is that there is a plethora of Grey Codes, not a single Code. Therein lies the heart of the issue. Some encourage growth, if not many. But many are chosen to fit with a current lifestyle, doing little to encourage or stimulate growth.

Kehta Neir wrote: Overall, it carries a pretty negative connotation that smells strongly of the superiority complex involved with the "Us vs Them" mentality.

Perhaps that may be how it sounds. I am a bit rough around the edges at times, one of my flaws. But it is more of an honest take on Greys, after studying their many and varied views, even having written an article on a certain philosophy of Grey, Potentium. It is to get people to look at their own views and see if they are stagnating. Sometimes stirring the waters is the only way to get it running again. And if someone feels that stirring, perhaps this article will reach them and encourage continued growth.

EDIT: all this to say there is no problem with Grey, but one should be wary if they walk that Path, akin to the Grey of the fictional universe. The temptation to fall short, to stop, slow, or even go back is always great. Having something that could excuse shortcomings increases the power of said temptation. So feel free to walk it, but I caution one to tread carefully down that Path.

I think I got the point, or "spirit" of the article, and I actually think it was well done (if I understoood it all)

I'm one of the vaguer sorts of "Jedi" and I'm not getting my back up about it, so if anyone else, perhaps they should wonder about their own, uh, self esteem, for lack of a better word.


If you want to get offended by Ari, you need look no further than that beard. :laugh:

The feedback i got from this article was mainly very positive. One Grey Jedi sighed " woah i had no idea people could see me/us like that "

I explained to him that its an opinion, one of many opinions of other peoples paths. But its always good to get "feedback" from the wider community.

Also, the reason imo why Greys get more critique than Sith is because the general idea seems to be that Grey Jedi don't know what they want .

But then...not many humans know exactly what they want do they? A lot of critique is therefor projection of our own incertainties.

Now, Arisaig, can you challenge your own points with a piece on the same topic? What qualities about "being grey" do you think are commendable and/or valuable?

Thank you for writing this, Ari, and thank you for sharing it, Serenity. This has been a great discussion. Now, on to my possibly annoying question...

Are there any Jedi who are not Grey?

Allow me to elaborate. While it is true that there are a variety of codes, guidelines, tenets, creeds, and entire doctrines out there meant to define Jedi, I challenge everyone here reconsider the definitions that we create based on these. Each describes an ideal to strive toward or certain conditions to meet, but no Jedi could ever reach the ideal of "Light" and no "Sith" will be entirely "Dark". Someone who identifies as a "Grey" Jedi is simply someone who is being more pragmatic and recognizing that the middle is a more realistic goal to reach, while the more idealistic "Light" Jedi or "Sith" are setting a very high bar knowing they will never reach it, but it is worth working toward.

It comes down to what kind of motivation is best for the individual. Goal oriented people are more likely to prefer concrete and attainable goals that can be checked off as they are reached. These are people who respond positively to rank advancement and recognition for their accomplishments. These Jedi are more likely to identify as "Grey" as that path has more realistic and attainable goals that more closely align with the day to day reality. People who identify as "Light" Jedi or "Sith" are more likely to be big picture thinkers. Goals are set, but they are constantly being modified. The finish line is always moving based on the current environment and most recent assessment of progress. The definition of "Light" or "Dark" is more fluid. These Jedi will never reach their final goal because when they do, they just set a new one further out. No "Light" Jedi will ever be light enough and no "Sith" will ever be dark enough.

Based on these observations/opinions of mine, I'm lead to believe that all Jedi are "Grey". We just have a different way of measuring progress and setting goals. Rather than judge ourselves based on titles or definitions, I like to judge actions. What we do is the true reflection of our Path. When we evaluate our most recent actions, we can see which code or Doctrine they seem to align with most closely. This gives us the insight we need to determine which path we are walking and which studies might be most helpful along that path. In other words, if your actions are constantly reflecting the Sith code, you are walking a Sith path. You then need to decide if that is your goal or not. It it is, study to become as dark as you can be and become a bad ass Sith. If it isn't, study ways to adjust your behavior to be less "Sith" like.

In the end, I don't believe we are "Light" or "Dark" or "Jedi" or "Sith". We are humans. We are not flawed. We are simply being judged based on someone else's subjective standards. Be the genuine person that you are. Act with integrity and honesty in mind. If you do this, it won't matter what others define you as.

Proteus wrote: Now, Arisaig, can you challenge your own points with a piece on the same topic? What qualities about "being grey" do you think are commendable and/or valuable?

An excellent question.

Being Grey, of course, has its merits. If it didn't, no one would go to it or identify with it.

In a world polarised by two sides (typically the left and the right sides of an argument in politics) it is comforting to find a middle ground. Many have done this with movements such as libertarianism. It only makes sense. If both sides are biased to a point, the middle ground is the logical point.

There is an excerpt from the fictional universe book "Dawn of the Jedi: Into the Void" I like to think on from time to time. "A Je’daii needs darkness and light, shadow and illumination, because without the two there can be no balance. Veer to Bogan, and Ashla feels too constraining, too pure; edge toward Ashla, and Bogan becomes a monstrous myth. A Je’daii without balance between both is no Je’daii at all. He, or she, is simply lost." For those out of the loop, Ashla is the Light Side, the Daughter. Bogan is the Dark Side, the Son. Yes, if executed perfectly, the Jedi Path is restrictive. A Jedi will restrain themselves where a Sith will not. But the Sith philosophy, when executed perfectly, can become horrifying (queue image of the Death Star ).

Now I've made mention of the Daughter and the Son, two characters from the fiction that embody their respective sides of the Force. There is, however, two others. The Father and the Mother whom embody both sides, but different ideals of both. The Mother is a destroyer of the universe type character, prophesied to devour the universe at the end of time. One could say this is "balance in freedom". The Father, on the other hand, created a prison for his children and the Mother to keep them in balance, "balance through control (including self-control)". The latter ideal is, what I've found, many Grey try to embody, balance through control of aspects of both sides of the Force (or, as many would say, embracing of the whole of the Force, not seeing "sides").

But there is a catch. The Father is an all powerful being, incorruptible in his own right. He's had eternity to learn to control himself. We are not as fortunate. We are flawed humans. So it may sound to be the more logical, reasonable, or balanced Path... but it is one of temptation. One may say that the Jedi told people to avoid the dark because it was only the most powerful of their order that could handle balancing both sides (Mace Windu, for example). But many powerful Jedi tried and failed (Qui-Gon, for example, tempted the Dark and fell to it for a spell).

There is the argument that it involves self control to be a Grey. To learn to hold the power but not use it. But I could then argue that we all have that power. We all have the potential for great good or evil, so the Grey are no different from the Jedi or Sith (or any other person for that matter). From there, it devolves down into their Code, or to put it more accurately, their plethora of Codes, allowing for choosing various lines that could excuse various shortcomings rather than encourage people to grow from it. (Not true for all Greys, of course. Some do continue to strive forward... and, in that pursuit, I find they cease to be Grey and embody the Jedi ideals)

So what do I find commendable of the Grey? Their heart is in the right place. And, if preformed excellently, the Grey Path could be great. But it is rarely pulled off to such a degree (akin to both Jedi and Sith Paths). So if there are such little differences, why am I placing a warning about it? Because it lacks the focus of the other two. With the many codes, one can find themselves flipping between a few of them when they find one they "like" better. And that leads to temptation to do less. Humans are naturally lazy creatures. We will find the simplest way to accomplish something. That laziness has created many of our greatest achievements as a species. But to tempt possible excuses for shortcoming can leave one open to continuously making excuses for shortcomings.

What we do is the true reflection of our Path.

This is what I believe.
Someone can give themselves whatever title they like, but it's their actions that speak and truly define them. Then comes the difficult bit of trying yo pull my interpretation(judgment?) of those actions from the actions by themselves.

Senan wrote: In the end, I don't believe we are "Light" or "Dark" or "Jedi" or "Sith". We are humans. We are not flawed. We are simply being judged based on someone else's subjective standards. Be the genuine person that you are. Act with integrity and honesty in mind. If you do this, it won't matter what others define you as.

Agreed, but then what becomes the purpose of identifying as anything? I have always been a human, but only the past couple of years have I been a Jedi. As a non-Jedi I failed a lot, had a ton of flaws that I wasn't addressing. As a Jedi I've learned to confront those flaws and grow.

To say we are not flawed is a dangerous statement, however. We are all flawed. To say otherwise is to lie to ourselves. There is always something we can improve upon. We shouldn't, however, rely on other's views on our flaws unless we trust them. I trust Zenchi, for example, to tell me when my face is dirty. I do not trust many others to have my best interest in mind.

Senan wrote: Based on these observations/opinions of mine, I'm lead to believe that all Jedi are "Grey". We just have a different way of measuring progress and setting goals.

Agreed again, but it is a slippery slope, as I've outlined in my response to Proteus. We are all Grey to a degree, fundamentally. But to identify as such is where the problems can start.

Do you believe these Jedi "spectrums" are (or ought to be) static over a lifetime, or do they come on upon certain conditions (ie. age, psychological effects of past experiences, crisis of identity, etc)? I think what I'm asking is - does being light, grey, etc define the person over the whole lifetime or is it more a definition on where they currently are in their life?